Jivewalker
Member
2012 TE with KDSS and 212,000 miles. No issues with KDSS.
Newbie needing advice/input... KDSS
- Thread starter _sauce
- Start date
Espresso_OI
New member
Write ups with photos here that I found very helpful on KDSS:
Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road with KDSS Suspension Deep Dive | Autoblog
and another layer deeper:
Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road Suspension Flex Test | How does KDSS work and what does it do? | Autoblog
Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road with KDSS Suspension Deep Dive | Autoblog
and another layer deeper:
Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road Suspension Flex Test | How does KDSS work and what does it do? | Autoblog
Snowtrooper
New member
I said this in another thread but I test drove a 2018 ORP with and without KDSS. Concluded that they both are terrible for body roll.
The biggest difference for me was riding in a pro with stiffer suspension (something you should switch out anyway).
The only other difference I would eventually feel is my back and wallet when it comes time to wrench the suspension.
The biggest difference for me was riding in a pro with stiffer suspension (something you should switch out anyway).
The only other difference I would eventually feel is my back and wallet when it comes time to wrench the suspension.
comtn4x4
Senior Member
I'm going to give you the pro KDSS sell since there's so little.
I have a '13 trail with KDSS and 100,000 ish miles lots of which have been on the trail FWIW.
On road hands down you want KDSS. Amazing stability and cornering, greatly improved driveabilty. Consider how many miles your rig will spend on road vs. off unless it's going to be a trailer rig.
I think KDSS has benefits off road also. Yes the thicker sway bar can make for a stiffer ride in 12 mph plus situations. However, this can be compensated for (To some degree) with tire air pressure and a higher quality shock with adjusters. Off road the thicker KDSS sway bar will also help a heavier loaded (especially top loaded.) vehicle sway less.
As far as more expensive to install I have never seen this directly quoted in the 7 years I've had my rig in Denver. Maybe it just shows up in additional labor.
Additional cost of lift parts is simply untrue. You "can" run a regular lift like a non KDSS 4Runner with no other needed parts than the coils, shocks/struts and maybe UCA's and diff drop. That being said if you want to resolve (improve is probably a better word) the travel issue in the rear and run an extended travel setup you can do so for about $500 over the cost of the Radflo lift. (I can point you in the direction of this information if needed.) Yes KDSS sucks if you want to do the install yourself, no arguing there. However, it's not impossible.
And let's be real here if you want a full long travel setup it's many thousands of dollars more than a regular lift with or without KDSS. Many seem to misunderstand the difference between extended travel and long travel.
Lift height: You shouldn't go over 3" lift KDSS or not without significant cost or modification.If you actually want more than 3" lift follow the long travel path. 4Runners without a long travel or similar setup lifted in excess of 3" ride like garbage IMHO. And on that note KDSS or not more lift isn't better and won't help fit bigger tires. I run 34's on 2.5" lift with no rubbing. I'm talking real world on trail fully loaded full compression not rubbing. Not I drove on a dirt pile in my back yard and it didn't rub.
KDSS lean: It can happen apparently. I've been through 3 lifts from 2" to 4" (Yes I was a dumb a$$) and never had a bit of lean that I couldn't resolve by adjusting my coilovers. If some lean is gonna bug you probably don't lift your rig. Lots of people struggle with lean regardless of KDSS.
Reliability: Really? It's a Toyota. KDSS is equipped on Land Cruisers and Lexus that travel the world over without issue. The incidences of KDSS failing catastrophically are few and far between. Is it an additional mechanical system that needs maintained from time to time sure. If you want reliability keep it OEM, it's designed for the long haul.
All that being said, if you want a rig for heavy trail duty or long travel conversion KDSS is probably not the route to go. If you want an overland rig KDSS is exactly what you want. (Consider that KDSS actually increases articulation in a stock situation.) And if you want a lifted rig to get you just a bit further away from humanity when you want to go I'd definitely consider it.
I love my KDSS rig and I won't be getting rid of it or ripping KDSS out anytime soon. I completely endorse and recommend KDSS in the right applications.
I have a '13 trail with KDSS and 100,000 ish miles lots of which have been on the trail FWIW.
On road hands down you want KDSS. Amazing stability and cornering, greatly improved driveabilty. Consider how many miles your rig will spend on road vs. off unless it's going to be a trailer rig.
I think KDSS has benefits off road also. Yes the thicker sway bar can make for a stiffer ride in 12 mph plus situations. However, this can be compensated for (To some degree) with tire air pressure and a higher quality shock with adjusters. Off road the thicker KDSS sway bar will also help a heavier loaded (especially top loaded.) vehicle sway less.
As far as more expensive to install I have never seen this directly quoted in the 7 years I've had my rig in Denver. Maybe it just shows up in additional labor.
Additional cost of lift parts is simply untrue. You "can" run a regular lift like a non KDSS 4Runner with no other needed parts than the coils, shocks/struts and maybe UCA's and diff drop. That being said if you want to resolve (improve is probably a better word) the travel issue in the rear and run an extended travel setup you can do so for about $500 over the cost of the Radflo lift. (I can point you in the direction of this information if needed.) Yes KDSS sucks if you want to do the install yourself, no arguing there. However, it's not impossible.
And let's be real here if you want a full long travel setup it's many thousands of dollars more than a regular lift with or without KDSS. Many seem to misunderstand the difference between extended travel and long travel.
Lift height: You shouldn't go over 3" lift KDSS or not without significant cost or modification.If you actually want more than 3" lift follow the long travel path. 4Runners without a long travel or similar setup lifted in excess of 3" ride like garbage IMHO. And on that note KDSS or not more lift isn't better and won't help fit bigger tires. I run 34's on 2.5" lift with no rubbing. I'm talking real world on trail fully loaded full compression not rubbing. Not I drove on a dirt pile in my back yard and it didn't rub.
KDSS lean: It can happen apparently. I've been through 3 lifts from 2" to 4" (Yes I was a dumb a$$) and never had a bit of lean that I couldn't resolve by adjusting my coilovers. If some lean is gonna bug you probably don't lift your rig. Lots of people struggle with lean regardless of KDSS.
Reliability: Really? It's a Toyota. KDSS is equipped on Land Cruisers and Lexus that travel the world over without issue. The incidences of KDSS failing catastrophically are few and far between. Is it an additional mechanical system that needs maintained from time to time sure. If you want reliability keep it OEM, it's designed for the long haul.
All that being said, if you want a rig for heavy trail duty or long travel conversion KDSS is probably not the route to go. If you want an overland rig KDSS is exactly what you want. (Consider that KDSS actually increases articulation in a stock situation.) And if you want a lifted rig to get you just a bit further away from humanity when you want to go I'd definitely consider it.
I love my KDSS rig and I won't be getting rid of it or ripping KDSS out anytime soon. I completely endorse and recommend KDSS in the right applications.
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If I could go back and get a 2013 Trail without KDSS, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Subjective but the body rolls without KDSS can be compensated by stiffer coils, which OP already said you would switch out to. Save your $ and skip KDSS and spend that for something you really actually want. Other smaller examples like not being able to mount my King reservoirs in the preferred location irks me some but just another example of having to live with KDSS.
_sauce
New member
The venture is indeed a price increase over the ORP however without kdss on the venture the price difference is only about 1200$. After making the changes i want the dealership said it would be just shy of 4K higher than the venture. Again, can't always trust the dealership but that's what I was told. Id also like to paint the front silver bumper and the quote i got for that was an additional $350 (not through the dealer).
I did drive KDSS vs no KDSS trucks consecutively not once but twice (including freeway ramps, round abouts and some basic in town stop light/stop sign driving) and really just didn't notice much difference between the two... I will say seeing as i am transitioning to a taller vehicle with much more weight than my current daily Subaru that I've had for the last 10 years and that could absolutely be a factor.
I will likely drive both once more before reaching a final decision, but appreciate input from experience since I'm used to small no roll at all -- just hard to tell. Thanks again
_sauce
New member
good to know its not just me. Test drove both KDSS and non KDSS on multiple occasions and just could see or feel much difference... Thanks for the input
2015-2020 Toyota 4Runner Valance Panel 53901-35250 | Toyota Parts Center
Toyota 53901-35250
There, saved you $150.
Pro wheels are a high price of $250 each, plus mounting, is $1100
Yakima Basket is $500 on the high side
Black badges are $100 on eBay or anywhere
Pro Front Grill is like $150 from CarTrimHome
My Off Road is a non-premium / non-KDSS model.
Being 6'4 I didn't want the moon roof that robs headroom in the premium.
I live in the Ozarks or Missouri. It's all hills and curves here. Driving it home from the dealer, 2 years ago, I was like Holy SH*T this thing handles curves horribly!!! Tons of body roll.
My test drive around the suburbs of Springfield, MO didn't reveal the body roll.
A $750 Eibach Pro Truck Lift (shocks & springs) + $450 install w/ alignment solved the body roll issues on road, reduced the nosedive, and tightened it up a bit off road. Now I love it now.
Being 6'4 I didn't want the moon roof that robs headroom in the premium.
I live in the Ozarks or Missouri. It's all hills and curves here. Driving it home from the dealer, 2 years ago, I was like Holy SH*T this thing handles curves horribly!!! Tons of body roll.
My test drive around the suburbs of Springfield, MO didn't reveal the body roll.
A $750 Eibach Pro Truck Lift (shocks & springs) + $450 install w/ alignment solved the body roll issues on road, reduced the nosedive, and tightened it up a bit off road. Now I love it now.
Havik
New member
Except that the RCLT kit isn't out yet.
TheWraith
New member
True... theyre slated for some time this month
I kind of went with the rule of thumb that if you leaving it stock, then get KDSS. If modding it, especially heavy, do not get KDSS.
I bought mine intending to leave it stock, if I was going to mod it, I would maybe still gotten KDSS, but would have not went out of my way to get it if not available.
I bought mine intending to leave it stock, if I was going to mod it, I would maybe still gotten KDSS, but would have not went out of my way to get it if not available.
Immersion_Suit
New member
I bought a 2019 ORP earlier this year with KDSS. I only plan on a 2" lift and like the better on-road handling. I think the conventional wisdom is 3" or below you're fine, if you want more thorough modding, go without it.
