Newsflash: stock TE great offroad

[wfo9]

Even with all the rock stacking... Those trucks were beat to crap. Nobody in their right mind would do that if it was their own (and not already destroyed).

I still can't get over that KB video where those goof balls were supposedly headed to the rubicon in a stock trail. Ha, that would have been beyond funny.

But videos like that create a mentality that a stock trail edition 4 runner is ready for the rubicon, LOL.

 

[bimrunner]

Note all of the strategically stacked rocks in the above video; otherwise the 4Runner would have ended with grooved doors and quarter panels. The Rubicon is not very forgiving with 75 inch wide stock bodied trucks in the "sluices".

I have a neighbor who spent $12000 repairing his H2 Hummer after running the Rubicon. Traction is a minor problem on the trail - width is the big problem.

Little sluice has gotten easier in the last two years. Big sluice is where it gets really tight in the rocks and trees.

 

[1engineer]

Uhh, that video has nothing to do with offroading (at least my definition of it). I would love to see that car out on what I consider an real offroad trail.

Give me a break man. You say Moab is not a real trail? I just picked one video. There are several of that guy on youtube and many more of guys who have regular Subarus or stock vehicles taking them up trails where normally you only see modded Jeeps. I have much respect for a good driver in a bad vehicle and no respect for a bad driver in a highly modded vehicle. As a matter of fact I think a lot of mods are nothing more than a crutch that lets guys who couldn't pick a good line if their life depended on it think they are tough because they made it over an obstacle.

Let's be real for a minute: There are maybe a total of a dozen guys here that actually push their trucks hard enough that they need the mods. The rest are modded to look good in the mall parking lot and a Highlander probably has more capability than the size of their balls will let them push it.

I have been going offroad for 35 years. I used to push it hard but I got tired of fixing crap all week to tear it up again on the weekend. I still go quite a bit and honestly a frigging CR-V would be fine if I didn't need to get dragged every now and then. I have seen the guys on the trails in a 2wd S10 that go places guys riding 37's are afraid to go. It's the driver more than the vehicle unless you are just purposely trying to tear stuff up.

 

[oljedi11950]

As the famous Kung Fu man said Never say never !

 

[CSix]

Moab has many trails. There are many trails in Moab a Stock Trail would be quite capable of handling and fun. Trails like: Fins and things, Hells Revenge, Posion Spider, Gemini Bridges, White Rim...

Then there are the ones I'd say not just no but hell no: Pritchett Canyon, Helldorado, Golden Spike, Moab Rim, Behind the Rocks, Cliffhanger...

I've run them all many times in a highly modded CJ (and my mtn bike). To be honest, to do these trails, I'd rather mod up another CJ/TJ and tow it to Moab with the T4R...

 

[Jetboy]

The Wrangler Rubicon is obviously a lot more at home on the Rubicon Trail.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AYqyY3ZBCEU?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[wfo9]

Give me a break man. You say Moab is not a real trail? I just picked one video. There are several of that guy on youtube and many more of guys who have regular Subarus or stock vehicles taking them up trails where normally you only see modded Jeeps. I have much respect for a good driver in a bad vehicle and no respect for a bad driver in a highly modded vehicle. As a matter of fact I think a lot of mods are nothing more than a crutch that lets guys who couldn't pick a good line if their life depended on it think they are tough because they made it over an obstacle.

Let's be real for a minute: There are maybe a total of a dozen guys here that actually push their trucks hard enough that they need the mods. The rest are modded to look good in the mall parking lot and a Highlander probably has more capability than the size of their balls will let them push it.

I have been going offroad for 35 years. I used to push it hard but I got tired of fixing crap all week to tear it up again on the weekend. I still go quite a bit and honestly a frigging CR-V would be fine if I didn't need to get dragged every now and then. I have seen the guys on the trails in a 2wd S10 that go places guys riding 37's are afraid to go. It's the driver more than the vehicle unless you are just purposely trying to tear stuff up.

Yes, I say that trail in Moab is not really offroading. Its a natural feature that is no more than a parking garage ramp. The traction... is better than a typical street and there is really nothing challenging in that video at all. Moab presents some very unusual terrain where traction and driver familiarity with the environment can overcome the typical limits of a vehicle. It's not all that way, but there are many areas that present a smoke and mirrors opportunity for those with some skill.

And I agree that most people don't really offroad their trucks or require the capability that it has (but I think there are more than 12 people here that do). However, I'm responding to this complete misconception that a stock trail edition 4 runner is ready for the rubicon....I'm just using the rubicon as a reference, since it is such a benchmark that many keep bringing up. Those guys in that KB video obviously heard the same story. Its almost frightening to think that someone might try that without the proper skills and vehicle preparation (and yes that would include more than tires and sliders).

The 5th gen is no slouch... but it has some serious limits (especially in stock form) and even modified its not well suited for tight extremely rugged trails. It's a great overland rig... But even in the best drivers hands, its going to have its limits.

I do a agree that driver skill is important, but it really comes down to knowing and reading lines. Most of this comes from experience and I know I have plenty to learn here, but I also know that part of that is understanding the dynamics and limits of the vehicle.

I don't admire people that are not well prepared on the trail. If they are lacking skill or vehicle capability (both are bad choices). I'll help anyone, but if I run into a guy in a long wheelbase 2wd pickup on a difficult trail. I'm pretty much going to be thinking "why the heck are you here in that thing". Its a hazard to everyone for someone to be poorly prepared. On the other hand, if I run into a pretty lady in a jeep Rubicon I will spend all day making sure she finds her way out ;-)

And back to skill. With most forms of offroading (like on 2 wheels for instance) The rider skill can just about always overcome any limits of the bike... I find this to be very different with rock crawling or difficult trail navigation on 4 wheels. Since you can't just jump or hop around... You are totally limited by the geometry of the vehicle. Momentum is difficult to utilize often, since it tends to break things with all the weight of a full size non prepped vehicle. You just can't skill your way out of many tight situations. Sure you can pick a better line..., but you will eventually be in a corner you can't get out of.

I don't know why I even care about this, but I just get tired of people fooling themselves about the 4runner.

It's an awesome truck, but don't be fooled into thinking you will be the king of offroading in it. Easy to do on the internet, hard (and expensive) to do in the real world.

 

[1engineer]

Yes, I say that trail in Moab is not really offroading. Its a natural feature that is no more than a parking garage ramp. The traction... is better than a typical street and there is really nothing challenging in that video at all. Moab presents some very unusual terrain where traction and driver familiarity with the environment can overcome the typical limits of a vehicle. It's not all that way, but there are many areas that present a smoke and mirrors opportunity for those with some skill.

And I agree that most people don't really offroad their trucks or require the capability that it has (but I think there are more than 12 people here that do). However, I'm responding to this complete misconception that a stock trail edition 4 runner is ready for the rubicon....I'm just using the rubicon as a reference, since it is such a benchmark that many keep bringing up. Those guys in that KB video obviously heard the same story. Its almost frightening to think that someone might try that without the proper skills and vehicle preparation (and yes that would include more than tires and sliders).

The 5th gen is no slouch... but it has some serious limits (especially in stock form) and even modified its not well suited for tight extremely rugged trails. It's a great overland rig... But even in the best drivers hands, its going to have its limits.

I do a agree that driver skill is important, but it really comes down to knowing and reading lines. Most of this comes from experience and I know I have plenty to learn here, but I also know that part of that is understanding the dynamics and limits of the vehicle.

I don't admire people that are not well prepared on the trail. If they are lacking skill or vehicle capability (both are bad choices). I'll help anyone, but if I run into a guy in a long wheelbase 2wd pickup on a difficult trail. I'm pretty much going to be thinking "why the heck are you here in that thing". Its a hazard to everyone for someone to be poorly prepared. On the other hand, if I run into a pretty lady in a jeep Rubicon I will spend all day making sure she finds her way out ;-)

And back to skill. With most forms of offroading (like on 2 wheels for instance) The rider skill can just about always overcome any limits of the bike... I find this to be very different with rock crawling or difficult trail navigation on 4 wheels. Since you can't just jump or hop around... You are totally limited by the geometry of the vehicle. Momentum is difficult to utilize often, since it tends to break things with all the weight of a full size non prepped vehicle. You just can't skill your way out of many tight situations. Sure you can pick a better line..., but you will eventually be in a corner you can't get out of.

I don't know why I even care about this, but I just get tired of people fooling themselves about the 4runner.

It's an awesome truck, but don't be fooled into thinking you will be the king of offroading in it. Easy to do on the internet, hard (and expensive) to do in the real world.

Your last two sentences say it all. Well done! I have witnessed skilled drivers that could do amazing things with a POS.

 

[wfo9]

The Wrangler Rubicon is obviously a lot more at home on the Rubicon Trail.

Yea, they make it look easy, but they also get pretty beat up in stock form. And they are getting spotted lines to follow in that video. If you watch carefully you will quickly spot many situations where the tr4 would be getting serious body damage with those lines.

 

[Jhalko]

OP I really liked the side shot of your truck in the woods, sometimes I see shots like this and wish I'd gotten a Trail, they are so sharp, moab next?

Everyone else...

:deadhorse:

 

[Doc_Fry]

Kinda makes me wonder what a TRD Pro could do while maintaining a great on road experience. :flame:

 

[wfo9]

Kinda makes me wonder what a TRD Pro could do while maintaining a great on road experience. :flame:

A trd pro would just float over everything and then shoot a rainbow out the tailpipe and make the sun come out resulting in a beautiful spring day (in the middle of winter). A :hail:TRD pro:hail: can do anything.

 

[Doc_Fry]

A trd pro would just float over everything and then shoot a rainbow out the tailpipe and make the sun come out resulting in a beautiful spring day (in the middle of winter). A :hail:TRD pro:hail: can do anything.

Oh my I like spring days. :rofl:

 

[jcoleman]

It's an awesome truck, but don't be fooled into thinking you will be the king of offroading in it. Easy to do on the internet, hard (and expensive) to do in the real world.

When I started this thread I knew damn well it had the potential for going off the tracks, but apparently it's really got "legs".

Although I don't think any of this has much to do w/ my original post, I'd like to make a few things clear.

• Anyone not inferring sarcasm on the "Newsflash" part of the thread title needs to go reread with the proper tone
  
  
• I'm well aware that a stock 4Runner (irrespective of model and generation) is not a rock crawler.
  
  
• Never been to/on the Rubicon, but if I ever do, the process will involve my Ram tow rig and then my dedicated trail rig, not my 4R daily driver.
  

In synopsis, the whole post was simply expressing my reconnection with the simple joys of scenic/social trail riding and my thoughts that the TE was a perfect platform to experience that with. Nothing more.

Feel free to laugh at me when a year from now, I've either sold it (moving on to the next "perfect" vehicle), or festooned it with a bunch of heavy expensive stuff that it doesn't need for those ends.:cheers:

 

[CplTurner]

A trd pro would just float over everything and then shoot a rainbow out the tailpipe and make the sun come out resulting in a beautiful spring day (in the middle of winter). A :hail:TRD pro:hail: can do anything.

I have witnessed this phenomenon :biggrin2:

 

[jcoleman]

A trd pro would just float over everything and then shoot a rainbow out the tailpipe and make the sun come out resulting in a beautiful spring day (in the middle of winter). A :hail:TRD pro:hail: can do anything.

Oh my I like spring days. :rofl:

LMAO-just realized that this whole thread was like exhibit "A" for you two's discussion in this thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/184987-should-i-should-i-not.html

I had no intention of throwing fuel on the fire, gentlemen:lol:

And WFO, that quote is signature line worthy!

 

[flighht2k5]

I would love to see the carnage from a stock trail running the Rubicon. I'm sure there is a guide or two who could do it without massive damage, but let's be real. Most people here would never have a chance of making it without ridiculous damage. In fact, they would never make it in a reasonable time frame.

Even a highly modified 4 runner doing it would be a major feat in my book.

The rubicon isn't that difficult. How do you figure a highly modified 4Runner doing the con is a major feat? There are plenty of fullsize trucks running it. Hell Unimogs and h1s have ran the con.

 

[wfo9]

The rubicon isn't that difficult. How do you figure a highly modified 4Runner doing the con is a major feat? There are plenty of fullsize trucks running it. Hell Unimogs and h1s have ran the con.

I'm not an expert on the Rubicon, never seen it in person. However, by all accounts it is difficult with tons of approach and departure challenges with many opportunities for body and undercarriage damage of all types. There are also many narrow tight sections (from what i have seen in pictures and read about). I know 80 series land cruisers do it, so the 5th gen can with the right gear, BUT we are talking about a vehicle that has been out for 5 years (who most people paid over 30k for) and most people are not willing to turn it into a raisin just yet.

Most 5th gen owners are still trying to keep a straight body, so I think it would be a major feat to run it and come out unscathed. So far, I have not heard of one running it. I'm sure it has been done though.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying it cannot be done, heck you can get a stock trail though with enough support and damage, but I don't consider that much of an accomplishment or even a good indicator of a vehicles capability. I'm talking about running it without much support and feeling good about it after. In other words, not driving home with a truck that just lost 10k of its value.

I would like to run it someday, but it is going to be a loooong drive there and back home. You get the idea.

 

[1engineer]

LMAO-just realized that this whole thread was like exhibit "A" for you two's discussion in this thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/184987-should-i-should-i-not.html

I had no intention of throwing fuel on the fire, gentlemen:lol:

And WFO, that quote is signature line worthy!

I am glad you started this thread! My whole point is this:

A completely bone stock 4WD 5th Gen 4Runner (any model) can take you more places than 95% of the people have the balls to drive those places.

Putting a lift, tires and skids on aforementioned (@antman ) 4Runner does not act like RedBull and give you wings or bigger balls. It just gives the timid a bit more confidence that when they (and they will) pick a bad line they will still be able to make it home.

Modding one out like [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION] for example takes it to a slightly different level. Given the exact same expert driver for two different vehicles, he could take [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION]s truck places he could not take a stock 4Runner.

A good driver can always take a stock vehicle farther and faster than a bad driver with a good modded vehicle. It's been proven time and time again.

And the one that really gets me: Most guys here mod for looks and nothing else except to drive across the grass at their children's soccer games. Why don't you guys admit it? I love it when they try to justify their pursuit of mods lol. Here are a few for the new guys:

1. Lifting a vehicle never ever makes it handle better on road or off road. Ever. You want your CG to be as low as possible.
2. Lifting a vehicle is inefficient. You are now poking a bigger hole in the air as you drive.
3. But, lifting a vehicle looks cool! No denying it. I think so too.
4. Lifting a vehicle will (a bit) help you fit larger tires and give you increased ground clearance.

I could go on about racks, spacers, skids and about everything else guys do to their truck in the pursuit of making the truck "better" than stock. Truth is, and it took me awhile to figure this out, functionally there is nothing better than stock. When you have a stock 4Runner it is the most efficient, reliable and durable that it will ever be. Every functional change you make will reduce one of these items. For specific situations sure, modding is better but how often do you do that activity? I go off road more than the average guy and I still only go maybe 50 miles a month, compared to the other 2,450 miles a month I do on the road. that's a whopping 2%! One thing to remember though, every single functional thing you change on your vehicle will cost you somewhere else. It could be reliability, efficiency or comfort but it will cost you just the same, not to mention the money you spent. Looks are important though and you really can't put a price on being happy every time you go out in the parking lot and see your modded 4Runner! I just wish people would admit that instead of trying to justify it as a "improvement" lol.

I would not want to take my stock 4Runner across the Rubicon. I am good off road but I would tear it all to hell. I have not seen a 4Runner here that I feel is modded correctly that would make a trail like that with no problems. Fire roads and camping? What 99% of us really do off road? Stock does just fine. But where's the fun in that! I understand, I really do. So, mod away and enjoy!

OP, none of this was directed at you. Just felt like ranting a bit.

 

[bimrunner]

The rubicon isn't that difficult. How do you figure a highly modified 4Runner doing the con is a major feat? There are plenty of fullsize trucks running it. Hell Unimogs and h1s have ran the con.

This. It's not a feat. The unimogs always make me gawk though because they are BA!!! I is a fun trail though! Great camping, mostly good people and beauty combined with a few good challenges. Anybody who gets a chance to run it, I highly recommend it. Hope to see us on the trail one day [MENTION=113291]flighht2k5[/MENTION]. I run in both rigs. I also have a white 80. Given your location, I'm guessing you run from the Tahoma side to Loon where I go the opposite direction.