Newsflash: stock TE great offroad

[Engineer]

[MENTION=96008]Engineer[/MENTION] statement above is one of the best on the forum so far.

There is nothing wrong with spending your money on parts you like, function or form. I run Wheel spacers, Radflo suspension and KM2s when I spent 99.5% or more of my time on the road and the times off road I have "loved" having those things but aside from the tires none of it likely made a lick of differance and certainly the truck is far more capable in stock form then I am with my ~1-200 miles of off road experiance. I would have been just fine without.........So I spent money on things that will make my truck handle worse, bearings wear out faster, brake longer , increase road noise, and cost an arm and a leg. For me its my money and I enjoy every minute of driving the truck (ok most minutes) but like Greg said I would be kidding myself if I magically turned my truck into a moster by doing those things or tried to justify it ( same with my ARB fridge.......love it, would buy it again in a heart beat but for the 1/2 dozens times I have used it a foam cooler and Ice would have saved hundreds and hundreds of dollars and done just fine)

While I have no problems pinstripping my 4runner (well the banks for awhile longer) most dont want to reduce resale value, value the look of perfect paint etc and thats fine! Like everything we buy it should be a tool to enjoy life and we all enjoy life differantly.

and to the OP, like you I was very impressed with what the 4runner can do and the more I use it the more I see the differance between "because I like the look/want it" and the " its extremely useful/needed " mods.

 

[Intruder]

A lot of mods are less about capability and more about reducing possible trail damage. My front bumper gives me a bit better approach angle, but it lets me mount a winch and take some hits. My sliders keep rocks from hitting my rockers and doors. My skidplates keep rocks from damaging my diff and other vital components. My rear bumper lets me move the spare tire from under the truck so I don't get hung up on it.

My capability improvements were upper control arms and shocks that allow for more suspension droop (a real capability improvement would be long travel) and going to MT tires.

 

[Intruder]

I'm not an expert on the Rubicon, never seen it in person.

But you've posted more than once that you're sure a 4Runner couldn't make it through, couldn't make it through without a lot of body damage, or couldn't make it through in a reasonable time frame. Just like you've never used crawl control or multi-terrain select before but you're sure they're useless gimmicks.

 

[Canon_Bob]

I am glad you started this thread! My whole point is this:

A completely bone stock 4WD 5th Gen 4Runner (any model) can take you more places than 95% of the people have the balls to drive those places.

Putting a lift, tires and skids on aforementioned (@antman ) 4Runner does not act like RedBull and give you wings or bigger balls. It just gives the timid a bit more confidence that when they (and they will) pick a bad line they will still be able to make it home.

Modding one out like [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION] for example takes it to a slightly different level. Given the exact same expert driver for two different vehicles, he could take [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION]s truck places he could not take a stock 4Runner.

A good driver can always take a stock vehicle farther and faster than a bad driver with a good modded vehicle. It's been proven time and time again.

And the one that really gets me: Most guys here mod for looks and nothing else except to drive across the grass at their children's soccer games. Why don't you guys admit it? I love it when they try to justify their pursuit of mods lol. Here are a few for the new guys:

1. Lifting a vehicle never ever makes it handle better on road or off road. Ever. You want your CG to be as low as possible.
2. Lifting a vehicle is inefficient. You are now poking a bigger hole in the air as you drive.
3. But, lifting a vehicle looks cool! No denying it. I think so too.
4. Lifting a vehicle will (a bit) help you fit larger tires and give you increased ground clearance.

I could go on about racks, spacers, skids and about everything else guys do to their truck in the pursuit of making the truck "better" than stock. Truth is, and it took me awhile to figure this out, functionally there is nothing better than stock. When you have a stock 4Runner it is the most efficient, reliable and durable that it will ever be. Every functional change you make will reduce one of these items. For specific situations sure, modding is better but how often do you do that activity? I go off road more than the average guy and I still only go maybe 50 miles a month, compared to the other 2,450 miles a month I do on the road. that's a whopping 2%! One thing to remember though, every single functional thing you change on your vehicle will cost you somewhere else. It could be reliability, efficiency or comfort but it will cost you just the same, not to mention the money you spent. Looks are important though and you really can't put a price on being happy every time you go out in the parking lot and see your modded 4Runner! I just wish people would admit that instead of trying to justify it as a "improvement" lol.

I would not want to take my stock 4Runner across the Rubicon. I am good off road but I would tear it all to hell. I have not seen a 4Runner here that I feel is modded correctly that would make a trail like that with no problems. Fire roads and camping? What 99% of us really do off road? Stock does just fine. But where's the fun in that! I understand, I really do. So, mod away and enjoy!

OP, none of this was directed at you. Just felt like ranting a bit.

Probably the best post I've read on this forum yet. Sticky candidate IMO.

 

[9mmMike]

A lot of mods are less about capability and more about reducing possible trail damage. My front bumper gives me a bit better approach angle, but it lets me mount a winch and take some hits. My sliders keep rocks from hitting my rockers and doors. My skidplates keep rocks from damaging my diff and other vital components. My rear bumper lets me move the spare tire from under the truck so I don't get hung up on it.

My capability improvements were upper control arms and shocks that allow for more suspension droop (a real capability improvement would be long travel) and going to MT tires.

"A lot of mods are less about capability and more about reducing possible trail damage. ...."

That is the way I have always viewed my mods as well. Well put.

Plus, they look cool! Ha!

 

[Bobbydigital]

OP, where did you take your 4runner? I'm also in RVA, and looking for trails to take my 4runner.

 

[1engineer]

A lot of mods are less about capability and more about reducing possible trail damage. My front bumper gives me a bit better approach angle, but it lets me mount a winch and take some hits. My sliders keep rocks from hitting my rockers and doors. My skidplates keep rocks from damaging my diff and other vital components. My rear bumper lets me move the spare tire from under the truck so I don't get hung up on it.

My capability improvements were upper control arms and shocks that allow for more suspension droop (a real capability improvement would be long travel) and going to MT tires.

You are one of the dozen or so that realistically gets it. You know what you gain, you know what you give up in penalties and you take it to the trails!

When I am at the top of a steep drop in on my bike I do the same thing. I think "Hmmmm. I am going to have fun!" Then I think "Man this could really hurt bad if I don't hit it exactly right." I then decide if I am feeling it that day or not before I drop in. Some guys just blindly drop in and then they whine and complain when they are in the ER with a broked spine and a cracked and leaky medulla oblongata . You gotta weigh the pros and cons and I know you do.

"A lot of mods are less about capability and more about reducing possible trail damage. ...."

That is the way I have always viewed my mods as well. Well put.

Plus, they look cool! Ha!

There ya go! I was just being real.

 

[wfo9]

But you've posted more than once that you're sure a 4Runner couldn't make it through, couldn't make it through without a lot of body damage, or couldn't make it through in a reasonable time frame. Just like you've never used crawl control or multi-terrain select before but you're sure they're useless gimmicks.

I did not want to respond because it just plays into your goal, but here it goes.

I stand by my assessment on both counts. It does not take first hand experience on the specific trail to figure that out. I've been on similar terrain and have first hand experience of all the limits. Are you stating otherwise? Maybe the Rubicon is this super easy trail and everything I have seen and heard is just totally exaggerated. Why don't you go buy a new 5th gen, keep it completely stock and take it out there and run it just to show how wrong I am.

[MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION] has ran it, Hey bim you think a stock trail could do it no problemo? I really want to know this so I can shut my big stupid mouth if that is the case.

As far as MTS and CRAWL go, I stated I was more than willing to learn how MTS or CRAWL was more than a gimmick. In fact, someone brought up one use case for crawl that actually seemed to have some merit (deep snow). Are you saying you use it all the time or find it very useful? If so please explain. If not, your point is?

 

[bimrunner]

I did not want to respond because it just plays into your goal, but here it goes.

I stand by my assessment on both counts. It does not take first hand experience on the specific trail to figure that out. I've been on similar terrain and have first hand experience of all the limits. Are you stating otherwise? Maybe the Rubicon is this super easy trail and everything I have seen and heard is just totally exaggerated. Why don't you go buy a new 5th gen, keep it completely stock and take it out there and run it just to show how wrong I am.

[MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION] has ran it, Hey bim you think a stock trail could do it no problemo? I really want to know this so I can shut my big stupid mouth if that is the case.

As far as MTS and CRAWL go, I stated I was more than willing to learn how MTS or CRAWL was more than a gimmick. In fact, someone brought up one use case for crawl that actually seemed to have some merit (deep snow). Are you saying you use it all the time or find it very useful? If so please explain. If not, your point is?

Yes, a stock trail with the right driver could and has been done. I believe it was the one with the banged up muffler and some dings. I personally wouldn't run it without having it setup the way I do for a few reasons. First, I am used to taking certain lines/routes. Second, I run with others and would hold them up if I was in a stock trail. Third, I usually do it in 2-3 days and am pretty tired every single day. I really don't want the heightened risk of damage flustering me. You don't run the con in a truck you expect to be showroom quality at the end of the trail though (despite modifications to help protect the rig and make it more capable - tires, clearance, approach/departure angles). You run the con enough and try enough obstacles and your rig is going to tell the story.

Short answer: There are drivers good enough to do it. That driver is not me.

 

[bimrunner]

You are one of the dozen or so that realistically gets it. You know what you gain, you know what you give up in penalties and you take it to the trails!

When I am at the top of a steep drop in on my bike I do the same thing. I think "Hmmmm. I am going to have fun!" Then I think "Man this could really hurt bad if I don't hit it exactly right." I then decide if I am feeling it that day or not before I drop in. Some guys just blindly drop in and then they whine and complain when they are in the ER with a broked spine and a cracked and leaky medulla oblongata . You gotta weigh the pros and cons and I know you do.



There ya go! I was just being real.

Dude, I still have my eco light. What more could tell the story?

 

[1engineer]

Dude, I still have my eco light. What more could tell the story?

Don't worry. It will burn out soon enough from being on all the time. Only guy I know that gets 5 mpg in the city and 5.25 mpg on the highway...

 

[bimrunner]

Don't worry. It will burn out soon enough from being on all the time. Only guy I know that gets 5 mpg in the city and 5.25 mpg on the highway...

Just because your jealous... I see it every single time I put on the brakes. Makes me feel like I am saving the planet one stop at a time.

 

[wfo9]

Yes, a stock trail with the right driver could and has been done. I believe it was the one with the banged up muffler and some dings. I personally wouldn't run it without having it setup the way I do for a few reasons. First, I am used to taking certain lines/routes. Second, I run with others and would hold them up if I was in a stock trail. Third, I usually do it in 2-3 days and am pretty tired every single day. I really don't want the heightened risk of damage flustering me. You don't run the con in a truck you expect to be showroom quality at the end of the trail though (despite modifications to help protect the rig and make it more capable - tires, clearance, approach/departure angles). You run the con enough and try enough obstacles and your rig is going to tell the story.

Short answer: There are drivers good enough to do it. That driver is not me.

I don't think that driver is a common 5th gen owner, but I'll keep my mouth shut about it going forward.

 

[jcoleman]

OP, where did you take your 4runner? I'm also in RVA, and looking for trails to take my 4runner.

Shoe Creek Trail in Nelson County. One end of the trail is the parking area for Crabtree Falls, a popular hiking spot so that's easier to look up on a map.

As if this far ranging thread didn't make this clear enough, it "ain't" the Rubicon :bigok:

The trail offers more challenge (some of which is optional) than a fire road, while still being tame enough that with a little care/skill, you're not likely to damage your truck beyond a scratched skid plate or two.

I can send you info on a group which frequents that trail if you're interested. There are some touchy land use issues going on with landowners along the trail, so if you do make the trip, take care to stay off any portions which are posted.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

I totally get where you are coming from... we all know about the vehicles capability, we researched it, we read the marketing materials, and we have seen it done on the forum. There is still a sense of pride, when you discover it for yourself... when it goes from being something you know in an abstract way, to something you experience.

I feel this way each winter here in Chicago... I'm driving a bone stock 2013 SR5 4X4 on stock tires, and yet when the white stuff hits... I throw it in 4X4 and it goes and stops amazingly well.

I agree with 1engineer, it's why I haven't modded my 4Runner... I can admit that the mods I dream about at this point in my life would make my driving and ownership experience less pleasant to a greater extent than they would offer any true benefit.

 

[Doc_Fry]

Love it. At a cost indeed more protection more weight, less fuel economy wear and tear on suspension, brakes etc, but protects your undercarriage... Etc.


I still say, save a little of that mod money. Take a off road driving course, step out of your comfort zone, learn something new perhaps, like using those cool new fangled controls in your truck, maybe trail medicine yep my bag along with tacticla door kicking blow them to shit medicine, recovery if you arent good at this you can be in big doo, not even taking with a winch maybe a highlift with a come along, or using pullies, say whaaat. Too many take stock in this or that and that they will be an the end all to there needs. Look at people and there ar15s...

Damn, I just realized i have joined the gettig old crowd shit.. To the OP all in good fun, i really enjoyed that someone posted some pictures or it did not happen type of thing and man this thread is so civilized compared to some others :amen:

BTW i have spent the past few days removing a Total Chaos LT suspension, Bead Locks, and Toyo MTs, just to do something different in the 4runner I know where you are coming from 1Engineer and others. Miss my Pinzgauer underpowered go through nuclear war funky little what would you call it. But alas I needed luxury, efficiency, comfort, and realiability. My 4runner will be no Unimog or Pinzgauer for sure but will soot my needs just fine and well jhopefully I can jkeep the paint looking nice so down the road I can get a little something back out of it for my next project.

 

[wfo9]

Love it. At a cost indeed more protection more weight, less fuel economy wear and tear on suspension, brakes etc, but protects your undercarriage... Etc.


I still say, save a little of that mod money. Take a off road driving course, step out of your comfort zone, learn something new perhaps, like using those cool new fangled controls in your truck, maybe trail medicine yep my bag along with tacticla door kicking blow them to shit medicine, recovery if you arent good at this you can be in big doo, not even taking with a winch maybe a highlift with a come along, or using pullies, say whaaat. Too many take stock in this or that and that they will be an the end all to there needs. Look at people and there ar15s...

Damn, I just realized i have joined the gettig old crowd shit.. To the OP all in good fun, i really enjoyed that someone posted some pictures or it did not happen type of thing and man this thread is so civilized compared to some others :amen:

BTW i have spent the past few days removing a Total Chaos LT suspension, Bead Locks, and Toyo MTs, just to do something different in the 4runner I know where you are coming from 1Engineer and others. Miss my Pinzgauer underpowered go through nuclear war funky little what would you call it. But alas I needed luxury, efficiency, comfort, and realiability. My 4runner will be no Unimog or Pinzgauer for sure but will soot my needs just fine and well jhopefully I can jkeep the paint looking nice so down the road I can get a little something back out of it for my next project.

I THINK I followed that :loco:

Are you saying you had TC LT on a 5th gen?

 

[Doc_Fry]

The TC long travel would fit, alas i am in the process of removing it from my FJ for its new owner. I have a set of Walker Evans Beadlocks anfd Toyo MT with less than 3k miles x5 for sale. My truck was actually built today, i am pretty excited got a smoking deal on a TRD Pro! Port said should be here by the end pf the month. I hopefully will get VIN and shipment date this week or early next week.

 

[wfo9]

The TC long travel would fit, alas i am in the process of removing it from my FJ for its new owner. I have a set of Walker Evans Beadlocks anfd Toyo MT with less than 3k miles x5 for sale. My truck was actually built today, i am pretty excited got a smoking deal on a TRD Pro! Port said should be here by the end pf the month. I hopefully will get VIN and shipment date this week or early next week.

Got it. FYI, A LT front is pretty much a no go on the 5th gen. You can do extended travel up there, but the fenders seem to make LT up front to be out of the question without some serious custom fabrication. Many prior FJ owner seem surprised by this coming over from the FJ. The aftermarket for the 4runner is much more limited even though they are built on the same platform.

 

[bimrunner]

The TC long travel would fit, alas i am in the process of removing it from my FJ for its new owner. I have a set of Walker Evans Beadlocks anfd Toyo MT with less than 3k miles x5 for sale. My truck was actually built today, i am pretty excited got a smoking deal on a TRD Pro! Port said should be here by the end pf the month. I hopefully will get VIN and shipment date this week or early next week.

How much stronger do you think the TC axle shaft is from stock? This is an option I keep going back to and then having some fenders fabed.