not so Speeding Ticket

[jeffrosheen]

1. I find it hard to believe that driving the speed limit usually has you driving in the left lane. If it does than maybe you should check your calibration.

2. I am still confused at what you mean by "closing the gap" with the guy next to you.

3. Just because you drive the speed limit does not make you a better driver

What would happen if you were pulled over in a 65 for doing what you thought was 65 but come to find out you were doing 72? Wouldn't you be curious?

 

[Tusa123]

I would argue that if anyone is obeying the 5 second rule there is plenty of room to allow the vehicle in front of you to come over. I would say that by closing the gap you are being an aggressive driver, I too have sometimes found myself doing the same thing and immediately after I think to myself

 

[JeremyH]

I am not 100% sure, but I thought bigger tires can only affect your speedometer by 1-2 mph at most.

It really depends on the initial size tire and the new larger tire that you installed. Your speedo will be off (at any speed) by the percentage difference between the circumference of the two tires. It will read lower than your actual speed if you increase tire size and it will read higher if you decrease tire size.

 

[BenSD]

1. I find it hard to believe that driving the speed limit usually has you driving in the left lane. If it does than maybe you should check your calibration.

I commute to work during rush hour. Usually 65MPH is the fastest anyone is going. I'm not quite sure why you're having a hard time believing this. When I'm driving and it's not rush hour, people usually have a tendency to go around 70 here, so I drive 65 and go in whatever lane that puts me in.

2. I am still confused at what you mean by "closing the gap" with the guy next to you.

Here is a simple illustration. Let's say that I am the car in blue, and traffic is going about 65MPH. I'm following 5 seconds behind the car ahead of me, who is also going 65MPH. I'm driving in the #1 lane because that is going to be the safest because of the emergency lane on the left side. Again, I am NOT holding up traffic, I am going at the flow of traffic in whatever lane that puts me in.

In my rear view mirror, I see a punk in a lowered civic (green) going about 15 mph faster than me and quickly approaching in the #2 lane. I can tell based on his speed that his intentions are to cut me off in an unsafe manner, and squeeze between me and the white car. To prevent this, I go a bit faster and close the gap between me and the right car so he cannot attempt his unsafe maneuver.

During the summer, I did not close the gap, an the idiot in the civic tried to force his way into the small gap. He merged into my lane before even passing me. The gap was that small. As a result, I tried to avoid impacting him, but was sent into the center divide and ended up spinning out 180 degrees in the fast lane. The a$$hole just kept driving.

If the person was not speeding, the problem never would have happened. From that point on whenever I see someone approaching from behind in that manner and they are not signaling, I will close the gap to make sure they cannot get by.

3. Just because you drive the speed limit does not make you a better driver

What would happen if you were pulled over in a 65 for doing what you thought was 65 but come to find out you were doing 72? Wouldn't you be curious? [/B]

Yes it does. How many speeding tickets do you have? How many issues do you have on your record? How much are you paying for insurance? I can tell you that I have zero speeding tickets, zero moving violations, and I don't even have any parking tickets. I have a superior driving level according to my insurance company, so I get a good discount. If you have any tickets or anything on your record, then yes, I am a better driver than you.

I have no clue what you're trying to see in your last statement. I have oversize tires so I did the calculations and I know how fast I'm going compared to my speedometer. When the speedlimit is 65, I go 65.

 

[BenSD]

I would argue that if anyone is obeying the 5 second rule there is plenty of room to allow the vehicle in front of you to come over. I would say that by closing the gap you are being an aggressive driver, I too have sometimes found myself doing the same thing and immediately after I think to myself

 

[hulk311]

Just make sure you never attempt to do this:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2288265/funny_speeding_ticket_fail/

 

[borgzman]

"Closing the Gap" doesnt mean tailgating or provoking other drivers ahead or beside you..and I won't do it the whole time while driving in the freeway.
If I see a crazy driver in the mirror doing unsafe cuts to those vehicles behind me, ofcourse going faster than the left traffic, specially if he is in yellow mustang or a corvette..And do you think he's in an emergency? No! he is just showing off. What will I do? he will surely cut me while I'm at 65 or 7O? Many times showing them hint of being intimadated like glancing at their vehicle, the more they become aggressive and will just appear infront of you while the traffic ahead slows down. The more you are endangering yourself and others.
So "closing the gap" is a safety move in a particular situation

or

you will hear SMMAASSH!!

 

[Jeff Kleb]

It is easy to call out others for certain specific acts when driving; no problem with that.

As a general philosophy, however, there are two basic issues of driving ettiquette that are almost never followed. If they were obeyed (and both are the law in most states, even though never enforced), our roads would be smoother & safer; and highway travel would be less stressful and much more efficient.

What are they?

1. Keep to the right - except to pass! In other words, thou shalt not driveth thy car in the left-hand lane unless overtaking another vehicle. Don't be a left-lane bandit. If cars are passing you on the right, you're in the wrong lane (regardless of what the posted speed limit may be).

2. Always use your directional signals! Whether making a turn, partial turn or chaning lanes, don't be a stinker; use your blinker. God put that little lever on your steering wheel for a perfectly good reason. The rest of us are not clairvoyant.

I drive almost 100,000 miles a year (in cars, straight trucks and tractor-trailers), and I can tell you that most every "near miss" I have had involves someone driving in the wrong lane or failing to give proper signal before turning or changing lanes. Those inconsiderate dolts are far worse than anyone speeding; that's for sure!
:bash:

If people would pay attention to their surroundings, avoid the overtaking lane as their own "cruising lane" and let the rest of us know what they were planning, we would cut down on crashes, reduce road rage and make the daily commute fun once again.
:bigok:

 

[BenSD]

1. Keep to the right - except to pass! In other words, thou shalt not driveth thy car in the left-hand lane unless overtaking another vehicle. Don't be a left-lane bandit. If cars are passing you on the right, you're in the wrong lane (regardless of what the posted speed limit may be).



[/color] [/B]

This is a great rule on the open highway in rural areas, and believe me, I obey it. However, in a more urban area, this really does not apply. If everyone is going the same speed and there is quite a bit of traffic, the left lane is just another normal traffic lane. What's the point of using 3/4 of the freeway and leaving one lane empty?

That might be why there is such a discrepancy in thought here. Yes, these rules do apply, but they are conditional.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

This is a great rule on the open highway in rural areas, and believe me, I obey it. However, in a more urban area, this really does not apply. If everyone is going the same speed and there is quite a bit of traffic, the left lane is just another normal traffic lane. What's the point of using 3/4 of the freeway and leaving one lane empty?

That might be why there is such a discrepancy in thought here. Yes, these rules do apply, but they are conditional.

Well, of course I was speaking in more general terms, Ben; but that rule still applies even here in densely-populated Virginia. I drive in or near the DC area three or four days every week (as part of my job), and part of the reason that traffic does get backed up is because of people "hogging" the left-hand lane.

The left lane will obviously almost never be 'empty' at all, but the flow of cars will be (or should be) faster than in the other two (or three) lanes to the right. If cars are moving faster in the center or right lane, then someone is probably in the left lane who doesn't belong there. {Hint: Look for a Florida license plate, someone on a cell phone or a tweed hat with a feather in it.}


Drive several hundred miles a week on I-495, I-395, I-66 or even I-95 itself and you'll see what I mean.
:bash:

Now, as for the other rule about using directional signals......there is no excuse anywhere for not using them; even if you may be afraid to "tip off" another motorist and you may be concerned that they may 'close you out' from overtaking them. When I am driving an eighteen-wheeler, I don't want to rely on my clairvoyant skills to figure out whether or not you want to put your little car where my 65-foot truck needs to be.

...............................................................................................


"If I passed you on the right, you're in the wrong lane."

 

[BenSD]

Well, I have yet another reason why speeding is to be avoided. This happened yesterday. I was driving in the #3 lane crusing at 65 yesterday in very very light traffic. In the #4 lane, a motorcycle flew past me at about 80 or 85. He was in a lane that is a forced exit lane. As soon as that lane leaves the freeway, it makes a sharp uphill right turn, and then there is a stoplight. Well, the guy had a hard time slowing down, and I saw smoke from his rear tire as his bike started fishtailing. He couldn't stop in time, and his bike slammed into the guardrail, and launched him over the edge. If he had been going any faster, he would have had probably a 25 foot drop onto frequently used tracks for a light rail line. The guy ended up getting up very fast, and trying to move his bike out of the way. He was *only* going 15MPH faster than he speed limit.

Here's yet another example. I was driving in the #4 lane yesterday, and a white VW beetle was merging into traffic ahead of me. It's the type of onramp where you see the cars parallel to you for quite some time, then they are forced into your lane. I paced myself so the VW would be able to merge ahead of me. In the process, my speed dropped to about 60 because that's how fast the VW was going. Once the VW was ahead of me, but the lane on the right wasn't quite gone yet, a silver mustang decided that I was not going fast enough (maybe he couldn't see the VW directly ahead of me --- the reason for going 60), and tried to pass me on the *right* at about 70mph right when the lane went away. So here he is in the emergency lane trying to speed around me only to see that there is a car directly ahead of me. I layed down on my horn the moment he started the idiotic move. I didn't speed up or slow down, and he managed to slide between me and the car ahead of me, then cut across to the fast lane and speed off at 85 in shame.

Two more example of idiotic drivers where speed causes problems. Whenever I see people speeding, this is what I see ---- careless driving. You guys can make all the excuses you want to why you need to speed, and why it is so important that you get to walmart 30 seconds faster just so you can put the rest of our lives in danger ---- but it does not fly with me.

 

[JeremyH]

Whenever I see people speeding, this is what I see ---- careless driving.

Exactly! In the words of a very funny comedian....these people are "lacking patience and are self important"....and that is the root of their problem.

 

[jeffrosheen]

Well, of course I was speaking in more general terms, Ben; but that rule still applies even here in densely-populated Virginia. I drive in or near the DC area three or four days every week (as part of my job), and part of the reason that traffic does get backed up is because of people "hogging" the left-hand lane.

The left lane will obviously almost never be 'empty' at all, but the flow of cars will be (or should be) faster than in the other two (or three) lanes to the right. If cars are moving faster in the center or right lane, then someone is probably in the left lane who doesn't belong there. {Hint: Look for a Florida license plate, someone on a cell phone or a tweed hat with a feather in it.}


Drive several hundred miles a week on I-495, I-395, I-66 or even I-95 itself and you'll see what I mean.
:bash:

Now, as for the other rule about using directional signals......there is no excuse anywhere for not using them; even if you may be afraid to "tip off" another motorist and you may be concerned that they may 'close you out' from overtaking them. When I am driving an eighteen-wheeler, I don't want to rely on my clairvoyant skills to figure out whether or not you want to put your little car where my 65-foot truck needs to be.



Jeff Kleb....... You are the YODA of highway driving!! Anyone who drives 100,000 miles a year should have the final say on any highway topics! I agree with you on your two rules. Especially the point on left lane driving. I don't think people realize how dangerous this is and how it roots so many other problems.

Ben..... Although I do have 3 speeding tickets under my belt I DO NOT have a single wreck. Does this still make you a better driver? It would take me a week to tell you how many collisions and major crashes I have avoided including many of people who have cut me off.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Just remember, Ben, that speed itself is usually not the problem; but rather other mistakes in conjunction with it. Otherwise, we'd have higher fatality rates on roads where people drive faster.....but often the opposite is true.

Your aforementioned examples of idiotic driving tactics are perfect illustrations of people who were speeding and doing something else that is bad in itself. I agree with you about both of those instances, as they happen here as well.

That being said, I was speaking more in general terms about lane discipline and proper usage of directional signals. Those two rules are almost (or should be) worthy of being listed in the Ten Commandments of Driving.


I'm not exactly thrilled with people who drive too fast for conditions - regarless of the posted limits; but it is just as bad (or sometimes worse) when people drive too slowly or when their actions impede the normal flow of traffic. This problem is aggravated when speed limits are posted 10, 15 or even 20 mph below what is really the maximum safe travel speed or even the 'average' flow of traffic.

The Capitol Beltway (I-495) is posted at 55 mph, yet the average traffic flow during non-rush-hour periods is often 65 to 75 mph. Is that because everyone is out to break the law (even old ladies and soccer moms) or because the speeds are posted far too low? The more I drive, the more I am inclined to believe the latter.
:bash:

During "rush hour" in Northern VA, the speed of traffic is no more than 15 to 20 mph in many places, so 55 mph is but a moot point. You would have to be from here to understand how crazy it can be!

Perhaps I am a bit jaded because of the time I do spend on the road, but I am constantly reminded of the "dumbing down" that has been occurring in our country for perhaps the past 20 to 25 years. Unfortunately, I have little hope for any improvement in the near future. It almost seems as though we exist in a state of forced mediocrity. This is happening with society as a whole, although driving behavior is the most recognizable symptom of it.

We went off course when the "powers that be" abandoned the tried-and-true 85th Percentile Rule for determining how posted speed limits should be set.



Find some good reading about this and related subjects:
http://www.motorists.org

P.S. Peace be with all of you on this holiday. Enjoy some rest, since they're going to come after us beginning tomorrow. LOL!
:bigok:

 

[BenSD]

Ben..... Although I do have 3 speeding tickets under my belt I DO NOT have a single wreck. Does this still make you a better driver? It would take me a week to tell you how many collisions and major crashes I have avoided including many of people who have cut me off. [/B]

I do not have any wrecks according to my insurance company. If you saw how I was stopping my 4runner from careening off the center divide and shooting across lanes of traffic, or swerving into the #2 lane, I think you would not consider my mishap on the freeway a wreck. Despite being pushed out of my lane, I was able to avoid impact with the idiot driver, and no other cars were involved on a very crowded freeway. I kept the 4Runner in control as much as I could, but ultimately I ended up spinning out 180 in the fast lane facing the car that was behind me. So yes, I think I did a damn good job driving. No one was killed, no one was injured, and my insurance company stated that I was 0% at fault for the accident.

 

[techno]

As far as speedo accuracy goes, here is some food for thought...
In the state of Victoria in Australia about 10 years ago the police (there's only one police force for the entire state) caused some controversy when they announced that they were lowering their tolerance on speeders. Previously they always decreased the detected speed by 10% and subtracted 3 kph. For example, if you were caught doing 66 in a 60 zone the speed was reduced to approx 57 and therefore you were ok. But when they reduced the tolerance they made it that any speed 2kph over the limit was an automatic fine. So if you were caught doing 62 in a 60 zone you copped a fine. Naturally the public were a little annoyed by this since a little research showed that that allowable manufacturers tolerance for speedo accuracy was 10% (+/- 5%) of indicated.
I don't know if that same tolerance applies here in the US, but I can tell you that aussie vehicle design rules are tougher than US ones so I think its safe to assume that the 10% probably occurs here too.
So this means that a brand new car straight out of the factory could have a speedo that reads incorrectly by 5% max either way. Factor this into what speed you think you are going at.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Crash

I do not have any wrecks according to my insurance company. If you saw how I was stopping my 4runner from careening off the center divide and shooting across lanes of traffic, or swerving into the #2 lane, I think you would not consider my mishap on the freeway a wreck. Despite being pushed out of my lane, I was able to avoid impact with the idiot driver, and no other cars were involved on a very crowded freeway. I kept the 4Runner in control as much as I could, but ultimately I ended up spinning out 180 in the fast lane facing the car that was behind me. So yes, I think I did a damn good job driving. No one was killed, no one was injured, and my insurance company stated that I was 0% at fault for the accident.

Good for you, sir!
:awais:

Once in awhile, the good guys actually do win. Nothing like a near-miss with the Grim Reaper to put things into perspective, huh?



"Drive safely. The life you save could me mine."


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