Official Reveal Thread 2025 6th gen 4Runner

[rpoL98]

got to remember, the turbo-4, and hybridized turbo-4, is a result of legislative mandate, CARB, and not due to overwhelming consumer demand. 4-cylinder engine in a 5,000 pound vehicle? albeit turbo

maybe in the next design cycle, it'll be all EV, or 2-cylinder hybrid, and the loyal fanbase will eat it up.

JMHO.

 

[thatoneguy]

Some of you seem to not understand how engine performance works, wanting to call turbos bad right up to your deathbed. Forced induction is the way you make monster torque at low RPM. You practically cannot build a large enough naturally aspirated engine to pull off the same thing. This new little 2.4L turbo four (nonhybrid) makes more torque than the 4.0L, and max torque RPM is 1700, down from a lofty 4400. That results in better drivability, a nice flat torque curve starting at 1700rpm. Same with the Tundra. Old 5.7L made max torque at 3600rpm, new turbo V6 does it at 2000rpm.

Everyone is entitled to be a luddite, but brands can and will move on from you for the larger, less paranoid customer markets. Most Wranglers are sold with a 2.0L turbo now, and sales are very high.

I'm personally convinced Toyota would have moved on from the 4.0L without a mandate. You can't bandaid a 20+ year old engine design forever and have it remain competitive. Toyota created the first good hybrid system in an older world that had pretty lax emissions and mpg regulations.

Toyota openly stated a goal to hybridize their entire lineup by 2026. Whether the Supra and GR86 actually do that... I kinda doubt.

 

[8086bruce]

Overall I think it looks good and the tech will sure be nice.

With that said I'm glad I pulled the trigger on a 24 limited last month!

 

[thatoneguy]

Overall I think it looks good and the tech will sure be nice.

With that said I'm glad I pulled the trigger on a 24 limited last month!

Hopefully you got a good price! Current real transaction prices among non-PRO models seem to be $3-4k below MSRP in much of the country!

I can't imagine 6th gens are going to be offered below MSRP for quite some time

 

[johnbt]

"Everyone is entitled to be a luddite"

You know, if you are going to stoop to name-calling insults at least capitalize Luddite. It would make you appear to be more educated and believable.

 

[Blackwatch]

Some of you seem to not understand how engine performance works, wanting to call turbos bad right up to your deathbed. Forced induction is the way you make monster torque at low RPM. You practically cannot build a large enough naturally aspirated engine to pull off the same thing. This new little 2.4L turbo four (nonhybrid) makes more torque than the 4.0L, and max torque RPM is 1700, down from a lofty 4400. That results in better drivability, a nice flat torque curve starting at 1700rpm. Same with the Tundra. Old 5.7L made max torque at 3600rpm, new turbo V6 does it at 2000rpm.

Everyone is entitled to be a luddite, but brands can and will move on from you for the larger, less paranoid customer markets. Most Wranglers are sold with a 2.0L turbo now, and sales are very high.

I'm personally convinced Toyota would have moved on from the 4.0L without a mandate. You can't bandaid a 20+ year old engine design forever and have it remain competitive. Toyota created the first good hybrid system in an older world that had pretty lax emissions and mpg regulations.

Toyota openly stated a goal to hybridize their entire lineup by 2026. Whether the Supra and GR86 actually do that... I kinda doubt.

Toyota tried turbos in gas engines before and went away from them. They focused on NA motors for reliability and achieved great longevity. The Tundra has had turbo and engine problems even the LC300 has issues.

Toyota retuned the 4.0 and put an 8 speed in the LC300 in some markets and it drives great. The 4.0 could have been tweaked and an 8 speed would have gotten over 20 mpgs but it's all about emissions not low end torque. Toyota could have stayed with turbos in the 80s and 90s. They won't last as long as a NA engine. I don't care if you bring in the top Toyota engineer with a fresh jug of his kool-aid, these turbos and engines won't last 1 million miles like the 5.7 and 4.0 without new turbos and lots of work.

 

[balong48]

WHY, did Toyota offer Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) on the new Tacoma but not carry that feature over to the new 4Runner or Land Cruiser? It seems very short sighted that it is only offered on the Tacoma within the triplets.

For the 90% of the time most of us are on pavement, those of us who enjoy improved on-road ride comfort or have a bad lower back are willing to pay for this option. I don't care what their rationale or logic was, for me personally, this is almost a non-negotiable must have feature.

I thought I heard it was available in one of the videos I watched. I can’t remember though and I’d have to look back. May have misheard.

 

[Jetboy]

As someone who loves many of the EVs currently on the market, I have a pure, wholesome hate for PHEVs, although I hate the Toyota ones less. I don't feel like paying more and hauling around extra battery weight for a dinky little city range, especially in a truck. The Wrangler 4XE is probably my most hated modern 4x4 vehicle, while I love the regular version. PHEVs seem like a weird stopgap for people that want an EV but still let range anxiety into their head. If I wanted a PHEV, I would just get real and get a proper EV. Offroad EVs aren't to my standards and price goals yet, so I'll just happily buy gassers/hybrids for another while yet.

Like you say, they'd probably have to size a PHEV battery at 25-30kWh for a 4Runner PHEV. That becomes a porky sucker; the regular 2kWh hybrid is probably already going to hit 5000 lbs.

For me it doesn't necessarily need a lot of range. I'd be happy with a 10-12kwh battery pack. Would be around 400lbs. It would be enough to have to recapture the full energy of the downslope of a mountain pass and similarly to deliver 50hp for a full mountain pass climb when you want it with a trailer. So it could actually tow like 325hp. And it could save significant amounts of fuel on mountain terrain. EV use locally would be a nice benefit. It's probably the only way to produce diesel type power reliably. I really want to see it in the Tundra. The current hybrid version in the 4Runner/Tundra/Sequoia etc. is only really useful for 0-60, but doesn't do much for towing or pulling up mountain passes. It just doesn't have enough battery capacity.

I think a PHEV 4Runner would do as well as the Rav4 Prime - Toyota would never be able to build enough to satisfy demand. I suspect that the true reason we don't see one yet is because Toyota doesn't have enough battery capacity.

 

[Jetboy]

AVS is an option on the new 4Runner. I think it's available in Limited and std on Platinum(?). The reveal video says "AVS available on Premium Grades". I'm assuming that means ltd and Platinum trims as it appears there isn't an SR5 Premium anymore and it wouldn't be optioned on the TRD OR, TRD Pro, Trailhunter, or Sport as each of those has its own specialty suspension. So that leaves limited and platinum for the AVS option.

 

[Quentin]

Sounds like the Trailhunter is getting the bigger 9” rear diff from the Overland Expo video. I would assume that this is for all the hybrids.


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[mccmr89]

I don’t get how the vehicle is 5 inches longer and the cabin seems much smaller. Too me that’s a fail. The technology looks good but the design aesthetics to me are crap. Agree, if I have the money it’s Land Cruiser all the way. And maybe that’s Toyotas plan.

100% agree. I was holding out for this car for so long but it looks like a VehiCROSS mixed with a Tacoma. A Frankenstein SUV without a place in the lineup or any stand-out distinguishing features like we thought we'd get. The rear seat looks tiny, and headroom in the T4R has never been good (I am 6 ft). I'm going to stick with my LC pre-order.

 

[Jetboy]

Sounds like the Trailhunter is getting the bigger 9” rear diff from the Overland Expo video. I would assume that this is for all the hybrids.


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Spec sheets for the LC250 and Tacoma only show the 9.5 rear axle on the manual transmission Tacoma and in no trims on the LC250. So it may be only a single obscure model.

What's concerning to me is that hybrid torque to the input flange of the pinion on the rear axle is 7440 ft lbs of torque. That's a LOT. That's equivalent mathematically to the GX460 or 5th gen 4Runner having 816 ft lbs of torque at the crank. I'm skeptical that the 8.2 rear axle can handle that kind of torque. The only way i see it working is if Toyota has heavy torque management that doesn't really let you have full output until maybe 4th or 5th gear where the downstream torque multiplication is much lower. And maybe not at all in low range. That would still give a big improvement in highway cruising type use without needing downshifts. But there's just no way the rear 8.2 can handle full power in offroad conditions.

In fairness - that's a rare scenario. I can't think of the last time I gave my 4Runner WOT in 4lo. But I do see it being a problem still in a scenario where you're trying to pull a heavy stuck vehicle in 4lo and have great traction. You keep applying throttle until SNAP and you're done. That is something I anticipate happening pretty regularly if the truck will actually give you 465 ft lbs of torque in lower gears. In fact, I'd anticipate seeing the transfer case input and output shafts start breaking as well. It'll be fun to see how they do.

 

[thatoneguy]

For me it doesn't necessarily need a lot of range. I'd be happy with a 10-12kwh battery pack. Would be around 400lbs. It would be enough to have to recapture the full energy of the downslope of a mountain pass and similarly to deliver 50hp for a full mountain pass climb when you want it with a trailer. So it could actually tow like 325hp. And it could save significant amounts of fuel on mountain terrain. EV use locally would be a nice benefit. It's probably the only way to produce diesel type power reliably. I really want to see it in the Tundra. The current hybrid version in the 4Runner/Tundra/Sequoia etc. is only really useful for 0-60, but doesn't do much for towing or pulling up mountain passes. It just doesn't have enough battery capacity.

I think a PHEV 4Runner would do as well as the Rav4 Prime - Toyota would never be able to build enough to satisfy demand. I suspect that the true reason we don't see one yet is because Toyota doesn't have enough battery capacity.

I do agree that a couple more kWh capacity would be great for sustained towing in mountainous areas. Perhaps something in the 5kWh range. I presume Toyota thought long and hard about the pros and cons of pack size. The size they chose already takes up some real space, which would've been more space if they went larger.

Who knows what the next Prime model will be, but I think I would guess Highlander or Crown before 4Runner.

 

[thatoneguy]

100% agree. I was holding out for this car for so long but it looks like a VehiCROSS mixed with a Tacoma. A Frankenstein SUV without a place in the lineup or any stand-out distinguishing features like we thought we'd get. The rear seat looks tiny, and headroom in the T4R has never been good (I am 6 ft). I'm going to stick with my LC pre-order.

Have you been in a non-sunroof 5th gen? I'm 6'1", sit pretty upright, and I have many inches to spare vertically in here.

 

[Jetboy]

I do agree that a couple more kWh capacity would be great for sustained towing in mountainous areas. Perhaps something in the 5kWh range. I presume Toyota thought long and hard about the pros and cons of pack size. The size they chose already takes up some real space, which would've been more space if they went larger.

Who knows what the next Prime model will be, but I think I would guess Highlander or Crown before 4Runner.

Toyota teased the electric Tacoma. But we haven't heard much about it since then.

I'm not sure toyota put a lot of effort into the hybrid design. It's pretty crude in many ways. Functionally it's equivalent to an aftermarket add-on rather than what I would expect from an OEM like Toyota that could have designed an integrated transmission like Toyota does for the other hybrids.

The NiMH battery choice is also confusing unless viewed through the lens of battery supply shortage. If NiMH is all you can produce enough of, then "it's the best technology for this application."

I agree that the BOF models are likely the last vehicles from Toyota to see PHEV or EV powertrains. But Toyota has said that the Lexus models will be entirely EVs by 2030. That's not that far away. And presumably that will include GX and LX models as BEVs.

 

[Buckfever]

I have watched about 10 reviews of the new 4R on youtube and a few of the LC250 from Scotland. No one has anything bad to say about them, so they must be the perfect vehicle finally!
All joking aside it's nice to see the features etc but the fanboys get a bit sickening. I like TRD Jon but he seems to be cheering way too much. He made a few videos complaining about his Tundra then that went away quickly. I think Toyota basically tells them any bad press from you and you don't get invited to the next big reveal. These guys are Toyota's free marketing dept.

Untamed Motors never gets an invite because he's completely honest and unless he reaches Doug Demuro numbers he will never get one. David Chao on the other hand is either too annoying to invite or he really pissed off some people when he worked for Toyota because he's a nut. He guarantees the Tundra will be just as reliable as the V8 but won't address the issues and says 4Runner will be redesigned in 2023 because Toyota never misses their deadlines.

As far as the 6th gen goes, the Pro look pretty good in that mud colour. OT not too bad but looks like an extended 4th gen with a taco front end. I don't like that it gets the exact interior as the taco, it's way too big now and the interior space seems to have shrunk. The backseat legroom looks terrible and the roof to floor height in the back with the hybrid looks way too small. The window is too raked

The LC250 looks so much better and won't be much different in price.

Yeah I was thinking about that. They're saying that the Off Road trim will be the lowest grade with both power plants and they're suggesting 42-43 for the SR5. I'm thinking they'll slot the Off Road with the Hybrid around 50ish, just below the 1958 and the Pro near the Landcruiser grade. I'm having a hard time seeing where the value equation is. I guess we'll see.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

AVS is an option on the new 4Runner. I think it's available in Limited and std on Platinum(?). The reveal video says "AVS available on Premium Grades". I'm assuming that means ltd and Platinum trims as it appears there isn't an SR5 Premium anymore and it wouldn't be optioned on the TRD OR, TRD Pro, Trailhunter, or Sport as each of those has its own specialty suspension. So that leaves limited and platinum for the AVS option.

Thank you, I found it in the reveal video you mentioned at the 2:15 time mark, funny it is not mentioned in print anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=Hrn3p7OKglB7c1L-&v=ymm4Ej0ocBw&feature=youtu.be

 

[thatoneguy]

Toyota teased the electric Tacoma. But we haven't heard much about it since then.

I'm not sure toyota put a lot of effort into the hybrid design. It's pretty crude in many ways. Functionally it's equivalent to an aftermarket add-on rather than what I would expect from an OEM like Toyota that could have designed an integrated transmission like Toyota does for the other hybrids.

The NiMH battery choice is also confusing unless viewed through the lens of battery supply shortage. If NiMH is all you can produce enough of, then "it's the best technology for this application."

I agree that the BOF models are likely the last vehicles from Toyota to see PHEV or EV powertrains. But Toyota has said that the Lexus models will be entirely EVs by 2030. That's not that far away. And presumably that will include GX and LX models as BEVs.

If that's true, and if Lexus truly intends to be all EV by 2030, even GX and LX, that would beg the question: is TNGA-F platform designed to be used on pure EVs? I'm sure that 2030 date will slip.

 

[Ridin4Runner]

I am in the smaller camp, very happy with changes. Gen 5 is/was stale with outdated tech and interior. Especially, for the over MSRP some pay for TRD Pro.

 

[mccmr89]

Have you been in a non-sunroof 5th gen? I'm 6'1", sit pretty upright, and I have many inches to spare vertically in here.

I have