Official Reveal Thread 2025 6th gen 4Runner

[syndicate1]

Sooo, now that the 6th Gen is released... is it too soon to create a 7th Gen T4Rs category and start a Best Speculation thread? [emoji23]

 

[johnbt]

I love North Carolina's Outer Banks.

Now where is that other picture? We all know it's more about the driver. Your browser is not supported | delawareonline.com

Rt. 12 north ends in Corolla NC. Well, the paved part does while the official state road goes out on the beach for the last 12 miles. Don't follow your GPS

 

[Quentin]

It's not so much the range of travel but the load distribution while articulating. If you put the springs all the way out at the ends of the axle beam, you don't take advantage of the potential of the beam to use the lever arm to help distribute the weight side to side.

This is a copy and paste from another discussion, but it explains the issue fairly well I think:

In a simple scenario where you have a 72" track width and springs with a constant spring rate mounted inboard at 48" width (1 foot in from each WMS), and a spring rate of 200lb/in and the axle is bearing the weight of 2500lb. On a level surface each tire is loaded with 1,250lb of weight.

Now let's assume an obstacle where frame remains level and one tire is on top of a 12" rock. So the axle system will be put at a 9.56* angle.

With a solid axle modeled as a continuous beam with two point loads (springs) and supported ends (tires) the force on the tire displaced upward will be 1783lb and the force on the down side will be 717 lbs. (The springs will be displaced 4" up on one side and 4" down on the other, but that does not calculate the ground force distribution which will be a more complex, but not terribly complex, beam with asymmetrical point loads).

With coilovers like the Bronco uses if we took an extreme assumption to better tease out the issue - let's assume that each coilover was attached to the very end point of the axle beam. The axle would not transfer any of the force from one side to the other. The force on the upper tire will be 2450lb and the lower tire will be 50lb.

In both of those examples the tires always stay on the ground. They flex the same amount. Visually it would look pretty similar. But in terms of load distribution - the inboard spring design performs much better. And that translates to significantly less imbalance on the vehicle body, less body motion as you travel over obstacles (less head toss and more stability), and ideally better overall confidence and traction as the tires remain more balanced.

It's a balancing act though because as you move the springs inward you also reduce the inherent stability to resist body roll in corners or on sidehills. The solution for that is KDSS or similar anti-roll mechanisms. That's why the Toyota KDSS system paired with the inboard coils was a really great overall performer. Especially as implemented in the LC300 and should be in the GX550.

Good explanation and makes perfect sense. Thank you.

 

[M1911]

I do think Toyota is missing the "fun" part of the market without any removeable top. That's what really separates the Bronco and Wrangler from all others.

What is important to me is a quiet interior and reliability. If the 4Runner came with a removable top that would eliminate it from my consideration. My SUV is my daily driver, not a weekend toy. When I'm driving my hour plus commute in stop-and-go traffic, what I want is peace and quiet.

 

[AZ Craig]

Appears the embargo on the hybrid Tacoma lifted today with multiple press sites having first drive/impressions.

The most interesting thing though is the pricing of the TRD Pro and Trailhunter. From thedrive.com: $65,395 for TRD Pro. The Trailhunter will cost a little less at $64,395 with a five-foot bed, or $64,895 with a six-foot bed.

Ouch is all I can say. This pretty much implies a 4Runner Trailhunter or TRD Pro is going to be in the mid to high $60s, plus any ADM early on.

 

[Jeff_DML]

What is important to me is a quiet interior and reliability. If the 4Runner came with a removable top that would eliminate it from my consideration. My SUV is my daily driver, not a weekend toy. When I'm driving my hour plus commute in stop-and-go traffic, what I want is peace and quiet.

Exactly, i would probably be driving a bronco right now if it was a proper hardtop.

 

[Buckfever]

Appears the embargo on the hybrid Tacoma lifted today with multiple press sites having first drive/impressions.

The most interesting thing though is the pricing of the TRD Pro and Trailhunter. From thedrive.com: $65,395 for TRD Pro. The Trailhunter will cost a little less at $64,395 with a five-foot bed, or $64,895 with a six-foot bed.

Ouch is all I can say. This pretty much implies a 4Runner Trailhunter or TRD Pro is going to be in the mid to high $60s, plus any ADM early on.

Yeah and that seems pretty Fn nuts too me.

Looks like $3700 upcharge on the hybrid.

 

[alextop]

Dude, love the front on it but not so much the back...

 

[Jetboy]

What is important to me is a quiet interior and reliability. If the 4Runner came with a removable top that would eliminate it from my consideration. My SUV is my daily driver, not a weekend toy. When I'm driving my hour plus commute in stop-and-go traffic, what I want is peace and quiet.

I would opt for a hard top too if it were my daily driver. I would never have a wrangler or bronco as a daily. In my case I have an FJ40 as a toy and a side by side. Both are fun for a day on the trail, not fun for daily life. I would LOVE to have a new modern FJ40 that has all of the quality and reliability of new Toyota products. As much as I like my old FJ40 - it's 50 years old.

Toyota has 3 of the same size SUV now that are all functionally the same. 5 total if you count the Lexus as separate models. LC250 starts at a higher price than LC300. And the 4Runner top range models will be at or higher than the LC250 range.

There's room for Toyota to build an FJ Cruiser with a hard top or it could have been the 4Runner. It's not that they'd leave people like you or I behind who want a full cabin and nice highway manners. Just that they could offer a range of vehicles. I don't understand why they've chosen to make 3 versions of one segment instead of having a full range.

What would make sense to me - Fortuner/3rd gen 4runner size new 4Runner model that fills that segment at around 105" wheelbase, 2 row only. Then have the LC250 replace the 5th gen 4Runner segment right as it is now with the full range of models from base SR5 up to a TRD Pro. And add a 3rd model as a new FJ Cruiser that is removeable top, T top, or something like the 1st gen 4Runner top. Whatever it ends up as - it should not just be a stylized 4th version of the same product. There's just no reason for it to exist in that space unless it does something that the other 3 versions don't.

 

[MAST4R]

I would opt for a hard top too if it were my daily driver. I would never have a wrangler or bronco as a daily. In my case I have an FJ40 as a toy and a side by side. Both are fun for a day on the trail, not fun for daily life. I would LOVE to have a new modern FJ40 that has all of the quality and reliability of new Toyota products. .

I am super interested in an affordable FJ for my son but at this point I doubt Toyota is willing or capable of delivering that. With household debt at record levels, I think it is silly of auto makers to keep pushing products north of 50k. That 2007 style party of too many people buying what they cannot really afford might be coming to a bitter end.

For me? Boy, do I hope my 5th gen does not get totaled or something.

If it were, I would probably be going for a used 5th gen one for modding as a dedicated offroader and a Tesla for around town. That won't cost me more than at most 5k over a new Trailhunter and it is a far more fun combo for me. And we are getting a Model Y anyway so....

I will be looking for new Pros and THs on trail next year I guess. But they will probably be parked on the Moab City Market parking lot and taking pics off dirt roads. Few people actually offroad and even I would think twice before taking a 70k vehicle (after tax) to get all pinstripped on its first desert run here in AZ like my gen 5 was (but it cost 42k after tax).

 

[spartacus]

The 6th gen resembles a 4th gen on steroids.

 

[M1911]

I would opt for a hard top too if it were my daily driver. I would never have a wrangler or bronco as a daily. In my case I have an FJ40 as a toy and a side by side. Both are fun for a day on the trail, not fun for daily life. I would LOVE to have a new modern FJ40 that has all of the quality and reliability of new Toyota products. As much as I like my old FJ40 - it's 50 years old.

Toyota has 3 of the same size SUV now that are all functionally the same. 5 total if you count the Lexus as separate models. LC250 starts at a higher price than LC300. And the 4Runner top range models will be at or higher than the LC250 range.

There's room for Toyota to build an FJ Cruiser with a hard top or it could have been the 4Runner. It's not that they'd leave people like you or I behind who want a full cabin and nice highway manners. Just that they could offer a range of vehicles. I don't understand why they've chosen to make 3 versions of one segment instead of having a full range.

What would make sense to me - Fortuner/3rd gen 4runner size new 4Runner model that fills that segment at around 105" wheelbase, 2 row only. Then have the LC250 replace the 5th gen 4Runner segment right as it is now with the full range of models from base SR5 up to a TRD Pro. And add a 3rd model as a new FJ Cruiser that is removeable top, T top, or something like the 1st gen 4Runner top. Whatever it ends up as - it should not just be a stylized 4th version of the same product. There's just no reason for it to exist in that space unless it does something that the other 3 versions don't.

Toyota executives have said they will not build a short wheelbase off-roader for thebUS market, due to the large number of rollover lawsuits that resulted from the FJ Cruiser. And they haven’t sold a vehicle with a removable roof since the first gen 4Runner.

Toyota simply is not going to sell something like a 2-door Wrangler or Bronco in the US. If you want one of those, go buy one from the Jeep or Ford dealer.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Toyota executives have said they will not build a short wheelbase off-roader for thebUS market, due to the large number of rollover lawsuits that resulted from the FJ Cruiser. And they haven’t sold a vehicle with a removable roof since the first gen 4Runner.

Toyota simply is not going to sell something like a 2-door Wrangler or Bronco in the US. If you want one of those, go buy one from the Jeep or Ford dealer.

What scenarios caused the FJ Cruiser to rollover, other than idiots driving too fast?

 

[trainman605]

Having owned two Jeep Wranglers, one with both tops a 2004 TJ and a 2017 Willys model with just the Premium Soft Top, I will say I would not want one as a daily driver. I will say here these Jeeps were a third vehicle and pretty much a TOY for me, so noise wasn't a big concern. Riding motorcycles for some 40 plus years the Jeeps were a good replacement for me, so noise was not really a concern, just part of the adventure. Now that I own a 2024 TRD Off Road at 79 I think I have died and gone to heaven, WOW, I wish I would have found this vehicle many years ago. Why many try to compare the Jeep and the Bronco, to the Toyota 4 Runner makes no sense to me, two different worlds. :argue:

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Here's an interesting write up and photos of the hybrid system.

Toyota's Hybrid Truck System Will Be a Game-Changer. Here's How It Works

 

[Buckfever]

65K for a TRDpro Tacoma. What is the 4Runner going to run? Wondering if the Landcruiser is going to be the value equation? Are they going to slot it between the Landcrusier and the first edition?

I'm very disturbed by the pricing on the Tacoma.

 

[trainman605]

65K for a TRDpro Tacoma. What is the 4Runner going to run? Wondering if the Landcruiser is going to be the value equation? Are they going to slot it between the Landcrusier and the first edition?

I'm very disturbed by the pricing on the Tacoma.

I think the big question for 4 Runners buyers is, do I want a new 4 Runner, or the new Land Cruiser. For myself I like the TRD models in the 4 Runner, but I would sure give the new Land Cruiser a good look at when I decide to make a model change. The day of the $44,000 4 Runner maybe gone and we maybe looking a $48,000 as the starting point, but let's see what Toyota does.

 

[Jetboy]

65K for a TRDpro Tacoma. What is the 4Runner going to run? Wondering if the Landcruiser is going to be the value equation? Are they going to slot it between the Landcrusier and the first edition?

I'm very disturbed by the pricing on the Tacoma.

I think the market will reign in Toyota's wild pricing on them. A Ranger Raptor is only $58k. Street pricing on the Ranger Raptor is more like $54k advertised, probably $50-52 negotiated price. I think it may be better than the Taco TRD Pro. A ZR2 Bison edition has 35s, double lockers, OEM winch installed, armor, - probably $10k+ on top of a TRD Pro trim and the street price I see on those is $65k. I see Toyota losing a lot of market share by over-pricing the new products into a recession. Or in the alternative pricing will need to be slashed to get things back to reality. I think a lot of buyers will take a Ranger Raptor and two dirt bikes in the back over a TRD Pro Tacoma.

As a data point to compare - a GR Sport LC300 (front and rear lockers, twin turbo v6, eKDSS, 4.10 diffs) is currently priced for export in Japan at $72k, MSRP is closer to $50k used. Part of that is the collapse of the Yen. But the original release of the GR Sport LC30 in 2021 was $76k USD. And that's the halo offroad lux model.

A Tacoma TRD Pro should be around $55k. And I think the market will settle on a price in that range for actual transactions.

 

[AZ Craig]

A Tacoma TRD Pro should be around $55k. And I think the market will settle on a price in that range for actual transactions.

We'll see. One thing nobody should do on these is pay ADM and quite frankly even rushing into one at MSRP could be a big financial mistake.

I'm content at this point with my 2020 as I think we need to give all these TNGA-F products about 6 to 12 months to settle down (and see where the macro-economy goes in the mean time). As long as interest rates are sky high, I just don't see Toyota moving that many of these trucks at this price. Jeep has had their sales hurt by the same approach and it is easy to get massive discounts on them (I remember back in 2012 it was hard to get a Wrangler much under MSRP).

 

[Hitman]

Yes, but...

. So they are simply there to increase wind noise and provide free leaks.

What does that even mean? What's there to increase wind noise and provide free leaks? Your comment makes no sense at all.

Only 10% to 20% will ever use their "off-roader" in extreme off-road conditions, such as the Rubicon trail or in the extremes of Moab. For the other 80% to 90% of owners, their choice is more about utility, higher ride stance, looks, or just knowing it will take them down a fire trail to the campsite.

Having been on both Jeep and Bronco forums, once you get past the diehard Jeep or Bronco fanboys, there are many members who have owned or are returning to a 4Runner.

Yes, the 4Runner is competition to the Jeep and Bronco, for many, many shoppers.

People cross shopping a 4Runner with a Jeep will be much more likely to cross shop it with a Grand Cherokee rather than a Wrangler or any other Jeep for that matter. And that's because the 4Runner is basically the Japanese Grand Cherokee. It's not the Japanese Wrangler at all.