Hitman
New member
A Grand Cherokee Trailhawk is as good or even better than a 4Runner offroad. The Grand Cherokee Traihawk doesn't have a solid rear axle, but it has standard air suspension that gives it a big advantage.
Official Reveal Thread 2025 6th gen 4Runner
- Thread starter TexasFunRunner
- Start date
A Grand Cherokee Trailhawk is as good or even better than a 4Runner offroad. The Grand Cherokee Traihawk doesn't have a solid rear axle, but it has standard air suspension that gives it a big advantage.
Jetboy
New member
The 4R sits roughly half way between the Wrangler and GC. On Toyota's side - the GA-L and Subaru products are pretty close to the GC. If you put an SUV body on a Lexus IS350 - it would be a direct competitor with the GC. They are remarkably similar in design from suspension to engine/trans layouts etc. And - IMO - Toyota really should be building a GA-L based SUV that competes directly with the GC. It should be a Lexus GX unibody SUV that is based on the IS350/LS platform with a longitudinal powertrain. And the Lexus TX should also be on that platform, not the extended FWD platform.
As far as better off-road, I think it depends a lot on what you mean by that.
Put both on a starting line in a Baja 1000 or a Mint 400 - 4Runner would be about a 10:1 favorite I think. Maybe more. Start both at the gate keeper to the Rubicon and put bets on which one will come out the other side. I think the same would hold. The last time Jeep tried I think it came out the other end and left on a flatbed to the crusher with every door sill crushed and the transmission punctured.
Take them to a single large round rock - GC might have an advantage in clearance. Maybe even on a sand dune or muddy area. Maybe some Moab trails where the high ride height might help. There's definitely some places a GC will do better. It just depends on whether an extra inch or two of belly clearance matters or whether it needs to be able to handle the abuse of sliding and dragging over rocks and logs. The GC is a car with big tires at its core, so the truck robustness isn't there. But for single obstacles, it can do really well.
Just for fun:
Lexus IS350 suspension vs Jeep GC - they're remarkably similar:
Attachments
MAST4R
New member
The GC trailhawk would be fun for occasional sightseeing offroading (while the air suspension holds up at least).
A 100-mile stretch at some speed in the desert...is a whole different type of offroading.
Of course, the 4R cannot match a prerunner on that but it can do anything that can be considered somewhat safe for a vehicle without a cage...again, and again, and then again.
So horses for courses.
Though the 4R is best at nothing, it is a faithful Swiss knife and a true offroader meaning it is built so it can take the punishment over a long period of time, not just too look good and do a tough trail once in a blue moon.
A 100-mile stretch at some speed in the desert...is a whole different type of offroading.
Of course, the 4R cannot match a prerunner on that but it can do anything that can be considered somewhat safe for a vehicle without a cage...again, and again, and then again.
So horses for courses.
Though the 4R is best at nothing, it is a faithful Swiss knife and a true offroader meaning it is built so it can take the punishment over a long period of time, not just too look good and do a tough trail once in a blue moon.
I think this hits the nail on the head. I looked at a 4xe Trailhawk last year as an option to replace my Land Rover Discovery Sport (where I ultimately went with my EV).
I felt like the JGC could probably get through most light to moderate offroading situations and probably do pretty well on certain types of more advanced trails also. The air suspension is indeed really good on clearance, but if you look into some more info on this vehicle from Youtubers and what not, I imagine the RTI is definitely lower than that of a 4Runner. The chasis just inherently doesn't flex very well; JGCs seem to lift tires in harder offroading conditions constantly. This isn't neccessarily inherently a huge problem (God knows the Defender does the same thing), but I'd rather keep my rubber on the ground if possible.
Another big Achilles' heel of the JGC are the 31" tires. Additionally, you do not have enough clearance to go much larger. Personally I really don't want to be doing any significant offroading on less than a 32" (and honestly look forward to being able to run a 33" plus with minimal shenanigans on an updated TNGA-F vehicle). I know I could run 33" on my 4Runner easily enough, but don't want to take the performance hit since the power train is already a dog.
Nothing official out there; your best bet is to look at what a similarly equipped Tacoma is stickered at and add a little bit on.
I imagine Toyota will not release pricing much before at least September to October at the earliest. If this vehicle rolls out as late into 2025 as the Land Cruiser and GX550 are this year, pricing may not even be available until several months into 2025.
Last edited:
I don't know. My guess? Idiots driving too fast.
TexasFunRunner
New member
It makes complete sense if you have talked to any Bronco owner or read about it on the Bronco forum.
Happy reading...
Just a moment...
Just a moment...
Just a moment...
Just a moment...
Just a moment...
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/oh-no-2-0-mic-hard-top-delaminating.46466/
yeah my buddies brand new Braptor had a leaky roof plus you get the bonus of wind noise. No thanks for me
Bronco definitely is a favorite of mine, but I don't own one (yet) and gotta say, atrocious wind noise is BIG fact about it on 4 doors. I can't believe that Webasto or whoever is responsible for those tops, screwed the pooch and are allowed to still do this 3 years later.
Chrysler (aka American Stellantis) gets it down right, where I never experience obnoxious exterior noise in the Gladiator and Wrangler. Bronco, sadly not the case whatsoever. Ford would've done well to facelift the Bronco this year and fix these issues. They don't seem serious whatsoever or maybe delayed any such plans, because of the Ranger rollout and/or UAW strike.
Chrysler (aka American Stellantis) gets it down right, where I never experience obnoxious exterior noise in the Gladiator and Wrangler. Bronco, sadly not the case whatsoever. Ford would've done well to facelift the Bronco this year and fix these issues. They don't seem serious whatsoever or maybe delayed any such plans, because of the Ranger rollout and/or UAW strike.
TexasFunRunner
New member
Hi [MENTION=166416]Carmaker1[/MENTION], why did you change your username to [MENTION=777158]GFORCEX[/MENTION]?
Ford is clueless, sure Webasto is the supplier, but Ford is responsible for managing the design and their suppliers, both of which they fail miserably in.
Ford does not give a ratsass about quality, all they care about is pumping out the numbers, letting the dealers fix the problems, when you can get an appointment, as they are overbooked fixing all the factory screwups.
Yet their golden boy CEO stays on, what a joke.
westwind77
New member
So....after a month of hard thought I realized I just do not want that new 6th Gen so found a new '24 Limited in Wind Chill Pearl and brought it home last week.
I would have gone for the Limited '25, and I do like the exterior of that model, based on the videos/photos. I can say I am not a fan of some of the other trim line exteriors though.
I just can't get how 'bad' the interior of the new '25 is! They make it look so cheap, IMO. Who wants a giant 'TOYOTA' advertisement on the passenger dash?!?! That is worse than the people who put their make/model on their WS tint strip! It just looks to plastic and cheap, again, just my opinion.
I will say, after about a week with the new '24 I am beyond happy! I held off because I did not think the tech was 'up-to-date' enough, and I was wrong. This thing has so many options, settings, features, etc.
This is coming from someone who bought one of the first 5th Generations in the Northeast - I put a deposit down on it weeks before it arrived at the dealership and when it did it was the only one within 200 miles. I took it for a spin and signed the papers. I looked at the photos/videos and knew it was the vehicle for me.....the same way I looked at the photos/videos of the '25 and know that is NOT the vehicle for me anymore.
Hopefully Toyota will make the '25 a bit more refined, especially the Limited, for those of us who want a nice interior but still want to be able to do a bit of adventuring now and then.
Being a new Generation I think the 1st, and maybe 2nd year, sales will be strong, but I have a feeling they will fall off quickly after that.
I am curious to see what it looks like after year 3 compared to how the 5th Gen sold....time will tell.
I would have gone for the Limited '25, and I do like the exterior of that model, based on the videos/photos. I can say I am not a fan of some of the other trim line exteriors though.
I just can't get how 'bad' the interior of the new '25 is! They make it look so cheap, IMO. Who wants a giant 'TOYOTA' advertisement on the passenger dash?!?! That is worse than the people who put their make/model on their WS tint strip! It just looks to plastic and cheap, again, just my opinion.
I will say, after about a week with the new '24 I am beyond happy! I held off because I did not think the tech was 'up-to-date' enough, and I was wrong. This thing has so many options, settings, features, etc.
This is coming from someone who bought one of the first 5th Generations in the Northeast - I put a deposit down on it weeks before it arrived at the dealership and when it did it was the only one within 200 miles. I took it for a spin and signed the papers. I looked at the photos/videos and knew it was the vehicle for me.....the same way I looked at the photos/videos of the '25 and know that is NOT the vehicle for me anymore.
Hopefully Toyota will make the '25 a bit more refined, especially the Limited, for those of us who want a nice interior but still want to be able to do a bit of adventuring now and then.
Being a new Generation I think the 1st, and maybe 2nd year, sales will be strong, but I have a feeling they will fall off quickly after that.
I am curious to see what it looks like after year 3 compared to how the 5th Gen sold....time will tell.
dylans
New member
Fords are total and complete pieces of shit.
gomiami
Member
Yeah. I just can't imagine sales will remain robust on Toyota SUVs at these price points. Same thing with the pricing on the new GX550.
gomiami
Member
Excellent choice on the last 5th gen Limited in what I think is the best color for that trim. The Pearl with the Redwood interior was my preferred choice when I had my deposit of a 4Runner before I switched over to the GX460 at the last minute.
Congrats.
I think the GX550 pricing is fine though and will sell well if you look at the competition. A decent Defender with the 3.0 is at least $75K and can easily run into the $80s or more if optioned decently. For Japanese reliability BoF (and hell, BoF in general unless you include the American monster SUVs) you pretty much have a null set other than maybe a fully loaded Sequoia Capstone which I think also pushes well over $80K. Vehicles like the Mercedes G then are in a whole other pricing category well over $100K.
In some ways I think the bigger question mark becomes what is the financial advantage of a decently equipped Land Cruiser (in the $68K to low $70K range) versus a lower trim GX550 for a lot of people. If the 4Runner Limited and Platinum pricing lines up around $60K (which it may very well based on the Tacoma pricing), this is another reason I could see some people moving up to the Lexus instead.
gomiami
Member
I agree with you, in theory. Toyota is competitively priced with other manufacturers and Toyota/Lexus quality is a nice advantage.
My main concern is that the entire industry is pricing itself out of the market.
The automotive industry is fast approaching a breaking point where people, in the numbers manufacturers and dealerships need to keep record profits continuing, will either simply stop justifying $50k, $60k, $70k, window stickers for a daily driver or they won't qualify for a car loan even if they are willing to pay because of high interest rates and tightening bank credit.
Yeah, that is a definite consideration for me. LC with premium package is over $70k. At that point, why not a GX Overtrail?
The '25 Limited does not have this. That's a Pro and Trailhunter thing.
Similar threads
