OK, someone 'splain this to me

[Jetboy]

For all intents and purposes its the same engine. From 2003 to 2018 power went up 25hp and torque went down 4 ftlbs. 15/19 vs 17/20 mpg which could be attributed to the transmission. The different part numbers could be attributed to increasing durability or changes in manufacturing processes.

My point is they haven't spent money redesigning a motor from the ground up for our platform in the past 15 years, they build on what they have making minor changes where necessary.

What is it that you think the v6 needs that other manufacturers are doing differently?

I would say it was effectively a total re-design that happens to share the same displacement. But the age really doesn't matter. It's the performance that means something. Is there another v6 engine you think would be better?

Toyota is 270hp at 5600rpms and 280 ft/lbs at 4400.

The Ram v6 makes 305hp at 6,350 rpms and only 269 ft/lbs at 4,250. - meh, less power in the usable range than the "old" GR.

The Ford N/A v6 is 290hp @ 6,500rpms and 265ft/lbs at 4,000.

GM's 4.3L is 280hp @ 5300 and 305 ft/lbs at 3900rpms.

They all look pretty close to me. GM is the only one that sorta stands out because it produces better power at lower rpms. The Toyota 1GR makes more power than the Ford and Ram engines up to 5,000 rpms. And is slightly behind the GM.

If you modify it for higher rpms it looks exactly like the Ford or Ram engines. The 3.5L is 305hp/270tq, but requires another 1,000 rpms to get that extra power.

The 1GR is still right in the middle of the industry. I don't know the thermal efficiency of any of them, but that would be worthwhile to compare.

 

[Inv4drZm]

What is it that you think the v6 needs that other manufacturers are doing differently?

I would say it was effectively a total re-design that happens to share the same displacement. But the age really doesn't matter. It's the performance that means something. Is there another v6 engine you think would be better?

Toyota is 270hp at 5600rpms and 280 ft/lbs at 4400.

The Ram v6 makes 305hp at 6,350 rpms and only 269 ft/lbs at 4,250. - meh, less power in the usable range than the "old" GR.

The Ford N/A v6 is 290hp @ 6,500rpms and 265ft/lbs at 4,000.

GM's 4.3L is 280hp @ 5300 and 305 ft/lbs at 3900rpms.

They all look pretty close to me. GM is the only one that sorta stands out because it produces better power at lower rpms. The Toyota 1GR makes more power than the Ford and Ram engines up to 5,000 rpms. And is slightly behind the GM.

If you modify it for higher rpms it looks exactly like the Ford or Ram engines. The 3.5L is 305hp/270tq, but requires another 1,000 rpms to get that extra power.

The 1GR is still right in the middle of the industry. I don't know the thermal efficiency of any of them, but that would be worthwhile to compare.

Those bigger and heavier trucks get better gas mileage and are more utilitarian, but that could be more to do with the transmission.

I'm not complaining about the engine, just responding to other's about why I think Toyota doesn't introduce an obscure or enthusiast level (faster) engine for the platform. It won't give it any more capabilities.

 

[Jetboy]

I think the other vehicles get better mileage because they only sit about 4 inches off the ground and basically gave up any pretense of offroading. A Tahoe/Suburban for example doesn't even come with a low range transfer case unless you get one of the packages that includes it anymore.

I completely agree that an option for a larger engine isn't an unreasonable request. The problem we have is that in Toyotaland the 4.0L is the performance engine. The same vehicle is sold in most of the world with either a 175hp diesel, or a 4cyl gasoline engine with about 160hp. So they see it as a high performance engine where we see it as a bit of a dog.

And when you look at sales figures - most buyers would still choose the v6. I think Jeep GC v6 models account for around 75%, Diesel is about 8% and the rest are V8s. Toyota usually skips the performance options across the entire company. The IS350 is very similar to a standard BMW335, but the IS doesn't have a ISF anymore. The Tundra is comparable to other gas V8 models, but doesn't offer a diesel or high output engine. For better or worse, Toyota rarely offers an engine option that won't have a 25% or greater take rate. The IS is the only example I know of across the entire USA model lineup that has 3 engine options. And 2 of them are literally the identical engine with different ECUs (which is total horseshit to take your existing engine, tune 50hp lower, and sell it cheaper). I'm not sure what the rate would be on a v8 4runner. I'd like to think 25%, but it's realistically probably 10% or less that would pay a ~3k premium on top of a Limited and not jump into a GX460. But if it were offered across the board, it might sell better. It would sell like crazy in a Tacoma.