pics-4th gen V8 Running without front drive shaft? rwd? broken diff. bracket

[bctrunner]

Specs: 03 v8 limited lifted by 2.5 spacer, 1.5 body, 305/70/17 Toyo mt's.

Truck gets maintained well and wheeled pretty hard. So I'm not surprised it broke. I'm looking for a permanent solution.

I need to drive around in 2wd for about a week while my front diff bracket is getting copied into a beefier piece.

I tried taking it off after work and ran out of time. I pulled the rear flange bolts from the front drive line. Put the truck in drive and got nothing. Duh. Locked the center diff and still nothing. Did I not give it enough time to engage? Out of time I put it back together. What am I missing? DO I NEED TO PULL THE ABS FUSE so that the ecu isn't going crazy? If i do that will it stop me from being able to lock the center diff?

Why I am here with this truck: I broke my bracket the first time doing donuts in the snow center diff locked in 4hi. Wiped out the passenger axle and dented the oil pan. Drove it home slowly. I welded it and thought that it was fixed.

A month or so ago I was hopping in some wet snow. Not even pushing it and bam. It sheared the metal. I did NOT box the whole arm and could be why it broke again.

I need to pull the bracket again and send it off to a buddy. I was wondering if my rig will move with the front drive line out and center diff locked? I've searched for the last hour to find out and can't find any info. Also, will it damage engaging it?

Thanks for any input!

 

[NasaE30]

Not so much an answer to your question but, How much is a replacement from the dealer? Just get that, put it on and be able to use the truck normally while the HD piece is being made? If its cheap enough Might be the ticket.. Just a thought.

 

[aha2988]

The bracket, I've found cheapest at villagetoyotaparts.com Toyota revised the passenger side bracket in 06 making it slightly beefier. Most guys that run an 03-05 and wheel pretty hard wind up breaking the factory brackets (like me).

There was a member on toyota120.com that would weld up the revised brackets (already beefy but adding more meat to it) boxing in the sides of the "I-beam" bracket.

He had kids so he no longer has time to help out the members so i wound up purchasing the 06 bracket and welding it up myself.

To the OP: don't keep rewelding the same bracket. it's prone to failure. Replace it with the revised bracket and plate weld the sides of the new bracket. your problems will be solved.

also, you shouldn't have any issues removing the front drive shaft and just running rear wheel drive. Just make sure the center diff is locked and the light is illuminated solid. The VSC is only going to engage if it senses wheel slippage. Not really sure why you had issues attempting to drive without the drive shaft it should work fine.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I don't mean to insult you or anything, but that failure looks to be at the weld or at the very least within the HAZ. I would get a new bracket or build one from scratch at this point.

Also, aren't those cast steel?

 

[aha2988]

I don't mean to insult you or anything, but that failure looks to be at the weld or at the very least within the HAZ. I would get a new bracket or build one from scratch at this point.

Also, aren't those cast steel?

yeah there cast steel but you can still weld with your basic or average used welding wire. it just takes warming the part first instead of just starting your bead welds.

the original bracket is not strong enough to begin with it broke in the same location it had broken to begin with after he welded it

 

[having fun]

Agree with Austin, if you re-weld a break and add braces, you still have a week point on the original break/weld.

Get the new brace marked with the 6 on it and beef it up, no problems yet with mine, and welding it isn't a problem.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

yeah there cast steel but you can still weld with your basic or average used welding wire. it just takes warming the part first instead of just starting your bead welds.

the original bracket is not strong enough to begin with it broke in the same location it had broken to begin with after he welded it

The reason I asked is because it'd be easier to weld on than cast iron, but as you pointed out requires pre-heating to get a good weld.

The other reason I asked is because I would just go make one out of some tube steel and flat plating rather than weld up the cast one that is probably already fracturing internally at this point.

Now that I've said that... another mod to add to my to do list..

 

[JB.]

bctrunner,

If you're going to try to get an updated bracket, here's what it looks like (my truck, apparently at least some appeared on '05s). It's taller and wider in the spot where yours broke. I wheel fairly hard and it's held up, but it sounds like you should beef yours up.

 

[bctrunner]

hey thanks for the replies fella's.

Replacing with a factory part is not an option.
I'll find a way to break it.

I have a shop that builds logging equiptment and they have everything I would need to make a new piece. This bracket it toast.

Yes, I preheated the piece. and the heat cycle prob made the metal brittle. It sheared the whole piece. The welds didnt fail. I didn't weld it with my hobart 140 mig. lol..

I'll put the driveline the first chance I get.

options get an #6 bracket and box.

Or build a real bracket.

Cool, back to work. I have been very busy. I will post up the finished bracket.


THANKS!

 

[superman3043]

I'm gonna play devils advocate here and add a little twist to this conversation. As we can clearly see, there's plenty of room for improvement for stiffening these diff braces. You could make this thing so stout that it would never fail again, but did anybody ever question if the failure threshold of this part were calculated by design? Meaning, is the bracket made to fail or sheer to save a more costly or catastrophic failure?

So as everyone knows, you improve on your weakest link, what you're essentially doing is making the next weakest link in the equation your new weakest link. So guys like the OP and my good buddy Austin up there who have failed these brackets, in the situations that you were in where you're bouncing your front end and gain that unexpected instant traction that generates so much torque that it twists the diff enough to sheer a metal bracket; Had the bracket not failed, what would you be replacing instead of a bracket? Ring & Pinion (I know Austin's been there)? CV shafts maybe? I'm not sure. Those that know please feel free to chime in here.

Point is, I'm not positive that it is calculated to fail under a certain condition or not. Knowing Toyota, it's quite possible. Just something to be cognizant of in the quest to make our rigs bullet proof.

 

[aha2988]

I'm gonna play devils advocate here and add a little twist to this conversation. As we can clearly see, there's plenty of room for improvement for stiffening these diff braces. You could make this thing so stout that it would never fail again, but did anybody ever question if the failure threshold of this part were calculated by design? Meaning, is the bracket made to fail or sheer to save a more costly or catastrophic failure?

So as everyone knows, you improve on your weakest link, what you're essentially doing is making the next weakest link in the equation your new weakest link. So guys like the OP and my good buddy Austin up there who have failed these brackets, in the situations that you were in where you're bouncing your front end and gain that unexpected instant traction that generates so much torque that it twists the diff enough to sheer a metal bracket; Had the bracket not failed, what would you be replacing instead of a bracket? Ring & Pinion (I know Austin's been there)? CV shafts maybe? I'm not sure. Those that know please feel free to chime in here.

Point is, I'm not positive that it is calculated to fail under a certain condition or not. Knowing Toyota, it's quite possible. Just something to be cognizant of in the quest to make our rigs bullet proof.

there is only one account of the 06 style factory bracket failing without added boxing of the bracket, it was on an FJ cruiser with a 6" bracket lift running 35's.

In my situation I was bouncing a bit; however, the rear axle was fully loaded. It was at the top of dickey hill at uhwarrie when i didn't have lockers. the front tire didn't suddenly load with traction causing the bracket to break, the shear force came from the weight of the front diff housing itself. The passenger side only has one support where as the driver side has two supports. It wasn't the first time it had been through that force and that wasn't the greatest force it had seen up until that point. It simply failed after multiple occasions of force applied to it.

Now for my ring and pinion failure, this was due to the factory (non solid) pinion spacer that rides behind the pinion gear and spaces it to meet the backlash requirement of the ring and pinion gear mesh. After years of use and abuse by me the non solid pinion spacer allowed the pinion gear to deflect away from the ring gear leaving and unknown amount of tooth length to grab against. The torque force applied at the given time was enough to snap the end of a ring gear tooth, when the first tooth snapped the pinion gear immediately spun to the next tooth with added momentum causing the next tooth to break, then the next tooth, then the next tooth until all the teeth on the ring gear had sheared. This is why when you add a locker you install a solid pinion spacer to prevent pinion gear deflection.

hows that mr. devils advocate lol

 

[superman3043]

there is only one account of the 06 style factory bracket failing without added boxing of the bracket, it was on an FJ cruiser with a 6" bracket lift running 35's.

In my situation I was bouncing a bit; however, the rear axle was fully loaded. It was at the top of dickey hill at uhwarrie when i didn't have lockers. the front tire didn't suddenly load with traction causing the bracket to break, the shear force came from the weight of the front diff housing itself. The passenger side only has one support where as the driver side has two supports. It wasn't the first time it had been through that force and that wasn't the greatest force it had seen up until that point. It simply failed after multiple occasions of force applied to it.

Now for my ring and pinion failure, this was due to the factory (non solid) pinion spacer that rides behind the pinion gear and spaces it to meet the backlash requirement of the ring and pinion gear mesh. After years of use and abuse by me the non solid pinion spacer allowed the pinion gear to deflect away from the ring gear leaving and unknown amount of tooth length to grab against. The torque force applied at the given time was enough to snap the end of a ring gear tooth, when the first tooth snapped the pinion gear immediately spun to the next tooth with added momentum causing the next tooth to break, then the next tooth, then the next tooth until all the teeth on the ring gear had sheared. This is why when you add a locker you install a solid pinion spacer to prevent pinion gear deflection.

hows that mr. devils advocate lol

That's great! So what's the answer to my questions though? If I build an unbreakable diff bracket, what's the next in line to break in that same situation? If nothing, then awesome!

 

[aha2988]

That's great! So what's the answer to my questions though? If I build an unbreakable diff bracket, what's the next in line to break in that same situation? If nothing, then awesome!

lol rack and pinion maybe (thats whats going out now on mine haha). Other than that: tie rod inner link arm (bending under a torque load to one wheel), or CV axle. the diff's pretty solid up front and when the most torque applicable is applied your climbing or pulling something where the majority of your load is on the rear axle. speculation of course though. Trust me when i find the next weakest link you'll be the first to know lol

 

[having fun]

lol rack and pinion maybe (thats whats going out now on mine haha). Other than that: tie rod inner link arm (bending under a torque load to one wheel), or CV axle. the diff's pretty solid up front and when the most torque applicable is applied your climbing or pulling something where the majority of your load is on the rear axle. speculation of course though. Trust me when i find the next weakest link you'll be the first to know lol

And make sure to send me a private IB message incase I don't see the post.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

hey thanks for the replies fella's.

Replacing with a factory part is not an option.
I'll find a way to break it.

I have a shop that builds logging equiptment and they have everything I would need to make a new piece. This bracket it toast.

Yes, I preheated the piece. and the heat cycle prob made the metal brittle. It sheared the whole piece. The welds didnt fail. I didn't weld it with my hobart 140 mig. lol..

I'll put the driveline the first chance I get.

options get an #6 bracket and box.

Or build a real bracket.

Cool, back to work. I have been very busy. I will post up the finished bracket.


THANKS!

I figured you preheated it properly, it looks like the weld was nice and strong even when it broke. As my welding instructor told us long ago, "if you're weld is good, the metal near the weld will break before it does." Which is exactly what looks to have happened, the metal in the HAZ seems to have sheared off, possibly due to brittleness from preheating and composition of the metal itself. I don't see a lot of cast parts bending (Seen a Tacoma & FJ Spindle tweaked) usually they fracture.

 

[nghiS4]

bctrunner,

If you're going to try to get an updated bracket, here's what it looks like (my truck, apparently at least some appeared on '05s). It's taller and wider in the spot where yours broke. I wheel fairly hard and it's held up, but it sounds like you should beef yours up.

Here is a pic of my differential bracket in my 2004. It has the 6 stamp. What does this mean? The 6 stamp is an incorrect identifier? The other side reads "52391-60021." I suppose this is the older bracket? This P/N doesn't come up in searches on dealer sites. What P/N is yours on the other side?

I have P/N #52380-60021 on order, as a spare or may reinforce it. I assume this is the newer version.

I guess I'll see when P/N #52380-60021 shows up to compare the two.

 

[JB.]

What P/N is yours on the other side?

I don't know.

Here is a pic of my differential bracket in my 2004. It has the 6 stamp. What does this mean? The 6 stamp is an incorrect identifier?

No, I just think it means that the 6 doesn't mean '06. Yours looks to me like the thicker bracket. Here are some comparison pics that came from this thread at Toyota120 where the pic links now seem to be broken.

 

[aha2988]

I don't know.



No, I just think it means that the 6 doesn't mean '06. Yours looks to me like the thicker bracket. Here are some comparison pics that came from this thread at Toyota120 where the pic links now seem to be broken.

nice, I was looking for those pictures because they were helpful when i dealt with this problem. I guess the links were dead so i couldn't locate them.

you can obviously see how weak the 03 bracket is. With the previous post claiming an 04 has the revised bracket then perhaps the revision was made before 06. Interesting, either way

"If your passenger side diff bracket doesn't have a 6 on it........ your gonna have a bad time" (off-road lol)

 

[nghiS4]

nice, I was looking for those pictures because they were helpful when i dealt with this problem. I guess the links were dead so i couldn't locate them.

you can obviously see how weak the 03 bracket is. With the previous post claiming an 04 has the revised bracket then perhaps the revision was made before 06. Interesting, either way

"If your passenger side diff bracket doesn't have a 6 on it........ your gonna have a bad time" (off-road lol)

Perhaps my 2004 "soccer-mom pre-owned 4R" had the diff bracket upgraded due to some unknown-to-me incident? It does have a different PN (52391-) than the "new" one on order (52380-). Guess we'll see when I get the new one. Mine does look like the beefier one. Thanks JB!

 

[Nathana92]

Perhaps my 2004 "soccer-mom pre-owned 4R" had the diff bracket upgraded due to some unknown-to-me incident? It does have a different PN (52391-) than the "new" one on order (52380-). Guess we'll see when I get the new one. Mine does look like the beefier one. Thanks JB!

04 V8's have the thicker brackets.