Prediction: This is what makes Apple Watch a game-changer!

[Thai]

[MENTION=131371]Yukon4Runner[/MENTION] Oh no, here i go again...hope you don't submit a series of "properly executed subpoenas."

Official news release from AliveCor: AliveCor

 

[Yukon4Runner]

[MENTION=131371]Yukon4Runner[/MENTION] Oh no, here i go again...hope you don't submit a series of "properly executed subpoenas."

From me? Lol...you truly are entertaining. Don't ever change!

Sorry Thai, that wouldn't be my department...I already identified where they'd come from...ya just need to take the time to read before your fingers fly into action.

 

[Thai]

From me? Lol...you truly are entertaining. Don't ever change!

Sorry Thai, that wouldn't be my department...I already identified where they'd come from...ya just need to take the time to read before your fingers fly into action.

Dude you're too funny. Just know that you're barking up wrong tree. Keep your conspiracy theory to yourself. Idiotic dude.

 

[Thai]

Sensor uses those circular flat battery. Seeing that it has 4 screws, hopefully it is also waterproof.

 

[JB.]

something that you can record and show your doctor.

And then what? Are the general treatments for arrythmias well studied and proven? Any reduction of all-cause mortality? My laymen's readings don't give me a lot of confidence in the solid evidential grounding of the field of cardiology.

Readings also tell me that medical devices are well tested for safety -- for effectiveness, not so much.

I'm skeptical of the automatic assumption that finer measurement equals better outcome. For example: The Case Against Early Cancer Detection | FiveThirtyEight

Not trying to derail the thread subject but with wearables exploding, the broader question of the value of finer measurement seems like a valid one.

One thing that's very clear from the history of medical evidence -- it takes a long time to ferret out solid answers that often bear no resemblance to the early assumptions.

But why wait when there are products to be sold.

 

[Thai]

And then what? Are the general treatments for arrythmias well studied and proven? Any reduction of all-cause mortality? My laymen's readings don't give me a lot of confidence in the solid evidential grounding of the field of cardiology.

Readings also tell me that medical devices are well tested for safety -- for effectiveness, not so much.

I'm skeptical of the automatic assumption that finer measurement equals better outcome. For example: The Case Against Early Cancer Detection | FiveThirtyEight

Not trying to derail the thread subject but with wearables exploding, the broader question of the value of finer measurement seems like a valid one.

One thing that's very clear from the history of medical evidence -- it takes a long time to ferret out solid answers that often bear no resemblance to the early assumptions.

But why wait when there are products to be sold.

Wow...that is some good sh!t! And this is why internet is so bad for "me so smarter than doctors" folks.

Ok, here's a simple question since you doubt Cardiology so much...IF you (or your loved ones) had atrial fibrillation, then you would not go to your doctor for treatment? You would just stay home and hope for the best?

I won't even mention heart attacks or sick sinus syndrome requiring pacemaker. You would just say screw doctors and stay home?

Same for colonoscopy? (PSA is junk...that i agree with somewhat.) Damn to colonoscopy then when you get older?

Good luck with that.

Finer measurements? This device does NOT detect Afib any "finer" than traditional means.

This does NOT replace Holter or EMs. It does NOT replace 12-lead ECG. This is yet another CONVENIENT tool that patients (and indirectly doctors) use to diagnose a conduction issue or evaluate effectiveness of treatment, especially in someone who has paroxysmal conduction issues.

AliveCor is using (via add-on) what you ALREADY carry with you every minute of the day. Even Holter can be difficult if patients have arrhythmias beyond the monitoring period.

So, this broadens the monitoring scope and now HELPS patients to correlate their symptoms (e.g. lightheadedness or chest pain) with their heart rhythm. It may HELP answer the question...is my lightheadedness due to my heart skipping a beat or pausing etc.?

 

[Thai]

JB's response reminds me of those railing against ABS and seatbelts because they cause more harm in certain situations. :humble:

 

[JB.]

JB's response reminds me of those railing against ABS and seatbelts because they cause more harm in certain situations. :humble:

Well, I was going to bow out in response to your previous reply but...

...as far as this one goes, it's quite the contrary.

I use seat belts because I understand the numbers behind them. Exceptions (harms) are simply subtracted from the benefits.

I've encountered enough dubious medical recommendations that I insist on the numbers behind them, too. The numbers (if they exist -- only high quality studies need apply) are often an inconvenient truth.

 

[Thai]

Well, I was going to bow out in response to your previous reply but...

...as far as this one goes, it's quite the contrary.

I use seat belts because I understand the numbers behind them. Exceptions (harms) are simply subtracted from the benefits.

I've encountered enough dubious medical recommendations that I insist on the numbers behind them, too. The numbers (if they exist -- only high quality studies need apply) are often an inconvenient truth.

You never answered my questions above. Show me some evidence from your extensive laymen research.

 

[JB.]

You never answered my questions above. Show me some evidence from your extensive laymen research.

I asked first. "Are the general treatments for arrythmias well studied and proven? Any reduction of all-cause mortality?"

What's the evidence?

 

[Thai]

I asked first. "Are the general treatments for arrythmias well studied and proven? Any reduction of all-cause mortality?"

What's the evidence?

What is "general treatments"? Where did you get that question? That statement shows your "laymen-ness".

Is Atrial Fibrillation treatment well studied and proven? YES. Long term benefit of treatment proven.

Now, your turn. Answer my questions.

EDIT: never mind. You are misguided dude. PM me if you want to talk more regarding this topic. Let's keep the topic to Apple Watch and band capabilities.

 

[Yukon4Runner]

I asked first. "Are the general treatments for arrythmias well studied and proven? Any reduction of all-cause mortality?"

What's the evidence?

It's pointless JB. He doesn't REALLY read posts. Raise any question about his pet project and he starts barking like the mailman just rang the doorbell.

In my first post on this thread, I raised concerns that it was not FDA PMA approved but agreed that if you couldn't afford a dedicated heart monitoring device then it was probably fine.

Well the dog went on and on saying it was better than nothing...lol...he should just thank us for the free bumps for this bone he's so proud of.

 

[Thai]

It's pointless JB. He doesn't REALLY read posts. Raise any question about his pet project and he starts barking like the mailman just rang the doorbell.

In my first post on this thread, I raised concerns that it was not FDA PMA approved but agreed that if you couldn't afford a dedicated heart monitoring device then it was probably fine.

Well the dog went on and on saying it was better than nothing...lol...he should just thank us for the free bumps for this bone he's so proud of.

Funny...now calling me a dog. Nice. But wait, i thought that you accused me of working for AliveCor?? Have you filed a complaint yet to FDA?!

Concern about FDA PMA? The same tech that is used in this device has ALREADY passed FDA PMA. How is this not clear? Do you even know how the tech works??????

Explain to me please. If you do not understand how this device works, then why are you concern about it passing FDA?

OK, SHOW ME another medical grade heart monitor that is portable and does not require doctor's orders? You talk big...now, why don't you back up your sh!t. I showed you one alternative to AliveCor but that just got FDA approval (510k) two days ago.

I bet that you will go silent until you can jump onto another poster's wagon to take cheap shots at me. Cowardly tactics dude.

 

[Thai]

I'm glad that you have no association with this device.

Individuals and companies engaging in the off label promotion of a medical device face serious regulatory, civil and criminal consequences.

Why, if such a person were engaged in such behavior and a complaint with the FDA were filed, then I'd expect a series of properly executed subpoenas (say for example, from discussion forum, to ISP, to IP address, to physical address) would reveal the individual and/or company engaged in such egregious activities.

Again, it's good to hear you're just an independent individual who has a particular passion for this device.

I must say...this post of yours had me laughing my ass off...never read anything so retarded in a long long time!! :bounce:

 

[ndcent]

On Apple Watch predictions, I predict these smart watches go the way of those Bluetooth ear pieces. You'll see them in the discount bin at Big Lots here soon enough.

 

[JB.]

What is "general treatments"? Where did you get that question? That statement shows your "laymen-ness".

Is Atrial Fibrillation treatment well studied and proven? YES. Long term benefit of treatment proven.

Now, your turn. Answer my questions.

EDIT: never mind. You are misguided dude. PM me if you want to talk more regarding this topic. Let's keep the topic to Apple Watch and band capabilities.

General treatments: Sometimes there are small subsets of a population helped by a treatment when the larger (general) population is not well served. That's why "general".

The crux of my participation in this thread was the desire to take a pause at the automatic assumption that the area is well enough studied to turn constant watch band monitoring into a significant life safer rather than simply a revenue generator.

I doubt you paused, but your short answer tells me your are confident enough to have no inclination to do so. So there's not much to be followed up on except a digression into the general philosophy medicine. And I agree, not the thread for that.

In closing, suffice it to say I'm personally unexcited about the "game changer" at this point in time.

 

[Thai]

On Apple Watch predictions, I predict these smart watches go the way of those Bluetooth ear pieces. You'll see them in the discount bin at Big Lots here soon enough.

Yeah, i don't think so. The usefulness of it will be the difference maker. Blackberry and Palm used to say the same as what you're saying about iPhone when it came out....

 

[Thai]

General treatments: Sometimes there are small subsets of a population helped by a treatment when the larger (general) population is not well served. That's why "general".

The crux of my participation in this thread was the desire to take a pause at the automatic assumption that the area is well enough studied to turn constant watch band monitoring into a significant life safer rather than simply a revenue generator.

I doubt you paused, but your short answer tells me your are confident enough to have no inclination to do so. So there's not much to be followed up on except a digression into the general philosophy medicine. And I agree, not the thread for that.

In closing, suffice it to say I'm personally unexcited about the "game changer" at this point in time.

So, you're saying that most folks with Afib don't need treatment? Small subset of what? Cardiologist don't just go around giving anti-arrhythmics to the "general population"...this is why your statement makes no sense. Any anti-arrhythmic or procedure or anticoagulation is to treat a SPECIFIC disease process involving the heart.

You again evaded my question: If you have Afib, then what are you going to do? Sit at home? Or get it treated?

This band is not about constant monitoring! You are missing the point. Read what i wrote above.

I am not pausing because i see this almost everyday and involve in the care of these affected individuals. You are encroaching on topics that i know very well.

General philosophy of medicine? Feel free to avoid doctors and hospitals. The only person that gets hurt here are those who share your philosophy, especially if their genetic makeup is not robust. Unfortunate really. I see the end results and i always feel bad.

JB, you're a smart guy (from interactions on this forum)...we disagree (a lot). If you ever have any questions regarding medicine in general, then feel free to PM me...i will gladly answer you to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Thai]

Uh-oh, just got email from AliveCor, the band is NOT waterproof! This is a problem. I just emailed them asking if i can still wear it if raining or working out (e.g. sweat). Yeah, i wear my Apple Watch to shower often. This is a bummer.

 

[JB.]

So, you're saying that most folks with Afib don't need treatment? Small subset of what? Cardiologist don't just go around giving anti-arrhythmics to the "general population"...this is why your statement makes no sense. Any anti-arrhythmic or procedure or anticoagulation is to treat a SPECIFIC disease process involving the heart.

You again evaded my question: If you have Afib, then what are you going to do? Sit at home? Or get it treated?

This band is not about constant monitoring! You are missing the point. Read what i wrote above.

I am not pausing because i see this almost everyday and involve in the care of these affected individuals. You are encroaching on topics that i know very well.

General philosophy of medicine? Feel free to avoid doctors and hospitals. The only person that gets hurt here are those who share your philosophy, especially if their genetic makeup is not robust. Unfortunate really. I see the end results and i always feel bad.

JB, you're a smart guy (from interactions on this forum)...we disagree (a lot). If you ever have any questions regarding medicine in general, then feel free to PM me...i will gladly answer you to the best of my knowledge.

lol, this is too much work and off-topic but I appreciate your offer to answer any medical question I have. I just may take you up on it from time to time.

I see you really want an answer to your question.

If you have Afib, then what are you going to do? Sit at home? Or get it treated?

Between the two? Sit at home, but there's a lot of territory between your two options.

I'm sure you don't like my answer. That's okay, but the one thing I want you to understand is that I come at this from an attempt to leverage the science of evaluating the efficacy of treatments, not from the kind of simplistic, uninformed attitudes you're undoubtedly familiar with like "they're holding back the cure for cancer" or "I don't want any chemicals in my food" etc.