Pro Gun Quote

[calikev]

I understand and agree with most (if not all) of what you said.

BUT, a sheepdog also does not roam the land to protect other sheeps nor other herds of sheeps. A sheepdog only protects his sheeps, his small group of sheeps. From the quote, i view it as me being the sheepdog, while my family is the sheep(s). I don't go and protect other sheeps from other herds...and neither does the sheepdog.

Or to a lesser extent, what if i am at the movie theater and the gunman who is sitting right in front of me pulls out his machine gun. I get down on the floor while he fires his weapon at the crowd. I pull out my little handgun and shoots him dead from close range with no risk of anyone being caught in a crossfire. Would i not be the sheepdog and the crowd be my sheeps in this example??

For both examples, taking away my fangs (lawfully obtained weapon and CHL) would put my family (and people in theater) at deadly risk.

THAT is the point of the quote IMO. (I think that i have finally thought of a good way to explain things...so, disregard my prior post! )

NOW we're talking! 100% in agreement with you in this scenario. I love a good debate.

 

[Thai]

NOW we're talking! 100% in agreement with you in this scenario. I love a good debate.

Yeah yeah, it took me a while to get my brain to jump start so that i make any sense....

 

[calikev]

Thai, I'm coming to Houston for a family reunion in August. Maybe we Sheepdogs can meet for a few beers then go shoot a few wolves....HA!

 

[Thai]

Thai, I'm coming to Houston for a family reunion in August. Maybe we Sheepdogs can meet for a few beers then go shoot a few wolves....HA!

If it is my week off, then the gun range is on me! . If no shooting, then lunch on me.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Sheepdogs

The way I read it, his quote was that the "sheepdogs" - those "standing up to" the wolves in defense of all - were the armed citizens. I got that not just from the quote, itself, but the context he was using it in (i.e. the argument he was trying to support with it).

I agree with him as far as society being violent, regardless of the means used.

The term "sheepdog" in this context could either be a police officer or an armed citizen. Since the police cannot be everywhere all the time (nor would we want that in a 'free' society) and their job is to protect society as a whole - not you as an individual - it is incumbent upon decent people to be able to defend/protect ourselves and our loved ones.

Remember that when seconds count, the police are always minutes away!

P.S. I am former law enforcement and prior military and LOVE the idea of law-abiding citizens having firearms. Decent people with guns are not a threat to cops OR the military. If it gets to the point where police officers and soldiers hold our Second Amendment in contempt, then we're finished as a free nation!

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Or to a lesser extent, what if i am at the movie theater and the gunman who is sitting right in front of me pulls out his machine gun. I get down on the floor while he fires his weapon at the crowd. I pull out my little handgun and shoots him dead from close range with no risk of anyone being caught in a crossfire.

If it was easily cut and dried like that and you did kill a shooter you'd be a hero but in the chaos of that particular shooting you might have had the good intentions but what another legal gun carrier sees you shooting and in his head he's seeing a guy with a gun shooting and shoots you by mistake? Protecting your home against an intruder is one thing but vigilante actions in a crowded area could have bad repercussions if an innocent is killed by a shooter with good intentions.


My friend is an Iraqi vet and he says soldiers are heavily trained for combat and they still shoot the good guys (friendly fire) so he's not comfortable with people with minimal to no real training in firearms thinking their going to protect people by unloading a gun in public.

 

[Thai]

If it was easily cut and dried like that and you did kill a shooter you'd be a hero but in the chaos of that particular shooting you might have had the good intentions but what another legal gun carrier sees you shooting and in his head he's seeing a guy with a gun shooting and shoots you by mistake? Protecting your home against an intruder is one thing but vigilante actions in a crowded area could have bad repercussions if an innocent is killed by a shooter with good intentions.

My friend is an Iraqi vet and he says soldiers are heavily trained for combat and they still shoot the good guys (friendly fire) so he's not comfortable with people with minimal to no real training in firearms thinking their going to protect people by unloading a gun in public.

So, it is better to have the gunner at the theater keep blasting everyone? In your opinion, no one should have a gun because no one is a soldier? Not even cops since they are not heavily trained for combat?

We should let the theater shooter rampage through town...waiting for the national guard or SWAT to come in?

Yes, mistaken identity can happen. Wasn't there a story recently about cops (yes, RandyDaytona, even cops make mistakes!) killing innocent folks right here on this forum? Should we give cops wiffle bats instead of guns? Should we disarm them too?

But, again, just because we fear lawsuits (RandyDaytona's argument) or someone else shooting you (your argument), we should just disarm everyone and let the evildoers have their way with our families????? What are you going to do? Throw popcorn at the theater shooter and hope that the butter will make them slip and fall?! :toilet:

Oh wait...let me guess, you think that you can protect your family from deadly risk against a lethal evil force with your bare fists?? This ain't some cheap Sylvester Stallone movie where the bad guys drop their guns to fight you mano-a-mano!! Real life is not Chuck Norris wet dream!

BTW, you need to look up the definition of "vigilante" before you come into this conversation. You using the word is wrong and typical of liberal folks trying to spin it to their angle. Unfortunately, like RandyDaytona, you have missed the point completely.

NO ONE is talking about vigilante-like actions! No one. No one wants to become Batman, who is a vigilante by definition RonM. Do you see any CHL/CCW folks claiming to be Batman??? I have not.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I never said anything about cops and cops are more trained than your average law abiding gun carrying citizen and I'm not against guns in anyway and I never said that. You're reading things I never posted and running with it. (yeah,I used vigilante wrong so I apologize but you don't have to be an ass;why so worked up?)

Not all gun owners are created equal and my wife and I have home protection and it isn't a baseball bat.

Here's our latest wacko
Maryland man found with dozens of weapons, says he's the Joker - U.S. News

 

[Thai]

I never said anything about cops and cops are more trained than your average law abiding gun carrying citizen and I'm not against guns in anyway and I never said that. You're reading things I never posted and running with it. (yeah,I used vigilante wrong so I apologize but you don't have to be an ass;why so worked up?)

Not all gun owners are created equal and my wife and I have home protection and it isn't a baseball bat.

Here's our latest wacko
Maryland man found with dozens of weapons, says he's the Joker - U.S. News

Why am i annoyed by your post? You used the wrong term that is often used by liberals to wrongly portray reality. And you ask why?

Link: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/119840-maybe-i-wont-move-florida.html (from this forum)

So, just because several wackos dressed in cop uniforms (actually, they are actual cops) killing an innocent guy, we should ban cops from having weapons? Isn't this similar to your example above?

Just because there are wackos out there, we should punish everyone? Is this your logic and you're running with it???

But, again, just because we fear lawsuits (RandyDaytona's argument) or someone else shooting you (your argument), we should just disarm everyone and let the evildoers have their way with our families????? What are you going to do? Throw popcorn at the theater shooter and hope that the butter will make them slip and fall?! :toilet:

NO ONE is talking about vigilante-like actions! No one. No one wants to become Batman, who is a vigilante by definition RonM. Do you see any CHL/CCW folks claiming to be Batman??? I have not.

I want to quote myself so that you can read it again.

Are you always in your home?? Are evildoers only attack when you're at home?

How are you protecting your family away from home? With your bare fists? That's my point. You think that muggers and robbers use wiffle bats to do their deeds??? You will be lucky if one uses a knife these days!

I have no idea about Colorado laws, but do you know any CHL/CCW folks? Do they go around killing bad guys? Do they patrol the city at night to protect innocent victims?? Anyone you know refer to himself as Batman?

Where i live & work RonMaiden, CHL folks are regular folks who have better things to do than act as cops and/or Batman. We don't go looking for evildoers. We don't go out to fight crime. I don't. I do go to the gun range to practice. We ONLY carry our weapons to defend ourselve and our family against imminent life-threatening danger from evildoers. That's it. How liberals can twist that fact into a bunch of vigilantes is beyond me!!

If you think that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens is right, then you need to do more research!

 

[Thai]

RonM, here is more reading for you:

A decent article from NY Times (shocking!!): Gun Laws and Crime - A Complex Relationship - NYTimes.com

In other words, strict gun laws have not been shown to do what it intends to do.

ABC 20/20 article: Gun Control Isn't Crime Control - ABC News

Note, these two articles are not from NRA or other pro-gun sites! They are from traditionally liberal sources!

 

[priestsallore]

I agree with Thai.

All I will say is this. No law will ever take away my guns. I will always have them, and bear them via the Constitution, and for my own or anothers safety. I don't care who you are, if I myself or another feel threatened by you, or may die frok you, I will never hesitate to aim for the heart, or center eyes with a rifle or revolver. For without our use of good and viable self defense, we would all live in fear and would all sucum to it. I think Thai would agree with me, for we have a love for our freedom, rights, and safety, and will fight for it, I to the death.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I still fail to see where I said to take guns away from people since nobody is taking mine either and it won't happen in our lives so why do we worry so much about it;it just won't happen.

 

[rebelbowtie]

I still fail to see where I said to take guns away from people since nobody is taking mine either and it won't happen in our lives so why do we worry so much about it;it just won't happen.

The thing you are missing is Thai knows everything about everything and has a "thou art holier than thou" attitude. Arguing with him is pointless, let's just agree to disagree and pray he isn't in a situation where he has to find out how wrong he is about how the law protects him as a CCW owner.

 

[Thai]

The thing you are missing is Thai knows everything about everything and has a "thou art holier than thou" attitude. Arguing with him is pointless, let's just agree to disagree and pray he isn't in a situation where he has to find out how wrong he is about how the law protects him as a CCW owner.

What an argument! So, when you have nothing smart to say, you rely on cheap insults?! I could swear that this thread was pretty clear in its subject.

Please point out how wrong I am about the law in TX. How is the law not protect me?

 

[rebelbowtie]

What an argument! So, when you have nothing smart to say, you rely on cheap insults?! I could swear that this thread was pretty clear in its subject.

I was never arguing I was merely stating the facts. I apologize that the truth sounds like an insult but I have yet to see you make an informative non opinionated and constructive post on this forum.

 

[Thai]

I was never arguing I was merely stating the facts. I apologize that the truth sounds like an insult but I have yet to see you make an informative non opinionated and constructive post on this forum.

Oh well...maybe it's right in front of you and you are too blind to see??! I can't make a blind person see...so I won't waste time with you. Feel free to move to another post or ignore me.

 

[priestsallore]

"truth" from the mouth is merely an opinion. Thai is pretty correct in what he says, as its usually backed up.

 

[Thai]

"truth" from the mouth is merely an opinion. Thai is pretty correct in what he says, as its usually backed up.

Thanks man...you can see how he ignores points that he brought up himself. How is it that everyone just assumes that they know more about Texas laws than folks who live in Texas?!! :smashputer:

 

[priestsallore]

Thanks man...you can see how he ignores points that he brought up himself. How is it that everyone just assumes that they know more about Texas laws than folks who live in Texas?!! :smashputer:

Lol, no problem brother. Everyone has their different views, including you and I. But, sometines opinion needs proof, no mattervwho says it. I understand both sides, though I credit rebel and ron in certain views, I stand with you on what I know you know. and, Thai has had many contructive posts as well.

 

[rebelbowtie]

Honestly I am just going to bow out, I had something typed out but it was in bad taste. Like I said though, I pray Thai never actually has to use his weapon.