Pulled the trigger on suspension upgrade

[Jtorral]

Will document progress but here is the deal ...

Day 1.

Purchased fox 2.5 front and rears for my 2021 4runner. I pray to God these work on the 21 model year cause their compatability chart has not been updated since 2019

FACTORY RACE SERIES 2.5 COIL-OVER RESERVOIR SHOCK (PAIR) | Truck Shocks | FOX

And

FACTORY RACE SERIES 2.5 RESERVOIR SHOCK (PAIR) | Truck Shocks | FOX

If any of you have this setup, would love to hear from you.
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Day 2

Well, as it turns out. The store that sold them to me now said they are on backorder. So, I ended up with King 2.5 OEM Performance series confirmed in stock and shipping tomorrow. No adjusters but will get adjusters in rear.

 

[LandCruiser]

There’s nothing different about the mounting hardware or the truck for the 2020 and 2021 models that would affect lift installation.

Some people are claiming that TSS, adaptive cruise, and other things may not work once you lift it, but I’m not sure about that.

 

[Jtorral]

My local dealer installs the ironman 3inch kit and they say it does not affect tss.

 

[Phade]

I have 2.5 Fox set-up. I have the resi and adjusters in the rear. On a 19 ORP. Absolutely love the set-up.

L-O-V-E IT.

 

[Jetboy]

I've had Fox 2.5 front and 2.0 rear since sometime in mid 2015 IIRC. Ride is great. Offroad performance is fantastic for things like going fast on desert roads and that sort of terrain. After 5 years one rear blew the seal out and poured all the oil out. And one front leaked from the reservoir seal. I fixed the front. Rear I took off and put the OEM rears back on for now. Just haven't had a chance to put something new on yet. But I'm not driving anywhere right now anyway, so it hasn't been a high priority. The 2.5 rears are probably a decent upgrade over my 2.0 rears.

I've also had to replace the lower bushings about once every 1-2 years. Upper bushings seem to last a lot longer. Overall I've been pretty happy with them. Just plan on replacing the lower bushings fairly frequently. If you can find some sort of boot to cover/protect them from the elements - I'd try it.

Good luck!

 

[Jono.ful]

I've also had to replace the lower bushings about once every 1-2 years. Upper bushings seem to last a lot longer. Overall I've been pretty happy with them. Just plan on replacing the lower bushings fairly frequently. If you can find some sort of boot to cover/protect them from the elements - I'd try it.

Good luck!

Have you had luck with rod end boots? It's one of those things that seems like a good idea, but in practice they usually do a better job at keeping crap in once it gets there, than they do of keeping crap out.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Have you had luck with rod end boots? It's one of those things that seems like a good idea, but in practice they usually do a better job at keeping crap in once it gets there, than they do of keeping crap out.

I wonder if using one of the shock skids would help. The FJ Toyman comes to mind as that one seems to block flying rocks nicely.

 

[Jono.ful]

I wonder if using one of the shock skids would help. The FJ Toyman comes to mind as that one seems to block flying rocks nicely.

Help with what? They don't encapsulate the bearing at all, so I'm not sure how they would help prevent road grit from accumulating. Rear shock skids prevent impacts to the shaft and mounting hardware

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Help with what? They don't encapsulate the bearing at all, so I'm not sure how they would help prevent road grit from accumulating. Rear shock skids prevent impacts to the shaft and mounting hardware

ahh I thought it covers the front to some degree to help with the debris. Never mind that idea haha

 

[Jtorral]

Well, as it turns out. The store that sold them to me now said they are on backorder. So, I ended up with King 2.5 OEM Performance series confirmed in stock and shipping tomorrow. No adjusters but will get adjusters in rear.

 

[Jetboy]

Have you had luck with rod end boots? It's one of those things that seems like a good idea, but in practice they usually do a better job at keeping crap in once it gets there, than they do of keeping crap out.

I have a pack of the rubber boots in a box in the garage. They'll go on the next time I swap them. They're due right now - but I haven't had time to do it. The biggest functional issue is that they start making a lot of noise when they end up with metal on metal contact as the plastic liner wears through. Otherwise you could probably run them forever and they'd just rattle once they're worn out. I seem to always have to cut them out too. I think this time I'm back again to having to cut them out even with a lot of anti-seize on the hardware. The misalignments seize to the through bolt. Short of taking it apart every few months, I'm not sure how to prevent it. - for the OP - be sure to put antiseize on the misalignments. And don't use copper - use aluminum based antiseize. Copper antiseize seems to react with the coating on the OEM bolts and makes them worse, not better. I'm not an expert on the chemistry going on, but I've had very bad luck anywhere I've used a copper based antiseize on the hardware on this vehicle. So aluminum antiseize or similar is probably your best bet to be able to get them off some day without having to cut the bolt out.

For me it's only the lowers in the front that really get worn out fast. The rear bushings on the fox performance are rubber bushings not spherical bearings. And the uppers don't seem to really wear out. Mine are still original uppers. They have little felt protective pads on them on the upper setup and that combined with the natural protection from the elements probably explains why they last so much longer.

I think if the boot works - it would solve the problem for me. The fact that the uppers don't wear out means that it's probably an issue with dirt getting into the bushings and causing the wear, not an issue with the bushings wearing out from the suspension cycling. I was thinking about maybe just leaving the boots on next time but not packing them with grease and even cutting out the bottom so they drain easily. And then also using a zip -tie on the top to try to get a really good seal around the top.

My other thought was just to machine out the lower eye and use a rubber bushing like the OEM setup. I'd just have to find the right bushing to use. The OEM lower eye is a lot bigger than the Fox one, so I'm not sure if there's enough material in the fox lower leg to machine out that big of a hole and still have enough strength left. But I'm pretty sure I could find a rubber bushing to work there.

Finally - I wouldn't say that I'm unhappy with the front Fox 2.5's. They're great. Some of the places I like to go are 50-100 miles on very rough washboard with periodic spots where water has washed through. The last time I was out to one of the spots this fall it was bad enough a Jeep Cherokee was high centered in the soft silt. Think baja 1000, but maybe only 50% as difficult. Anyway - being able to go 50-70mph is a huge time saver out there. If you're going 100 miles out - the difference between 10mph and 50mph is huge. And the fox suspension really makes that possible. So I love it.

I'm not thrilled with the Fox performance series rear shocks. They were too firmly valved for me most of the time because I don't haul a lot of weight and they're a non-standard refill valve, so I can't re-valve them myself or even swap in a lighter oil weight. And they didn't last very long. I'd buy Fox 2.5's again without blinking. I probably wouldn't go with the same 2.0 rear shocks again.

I think the OP will be really happy with the King shocks. They're very similar to the Fox. Without seeing them, I don't think you'd ever be able to tell the difference from the driver's seat.

 

[Jono.ful]

....

Interesting comment on the copper antiseize. I've used copperkote on every single bolt on my skids and suspension, as well as spherical bearings on control arms and shocks - with loctite where appropriate. I can honestly say I've never had a single issue.

 

[Jetboy]

Interesting comment on the copper antiseize. I've used copperkote on every single bolt on my skids and suspension, as well as spherical bearings on control arms and shocks - with loctite where appropriate. I can honestly say I've never had a single issue.

This is what the bolts I've used copper antiseize on end up looking like. I couldn't tell you the brand off the top of my head, but I think it is loctite. I think it's a combination of copper, the aluminum coating, and the steel together with a lot of salt and water that results in some really bad rusting. Other places where I have used aluminum antiseize don't have the same issues for me. For the rest I've really become fond of purple loctite (the weakest one) becaues it basically just seals the threads and keeps them from rusting, but isn't quite as messy:

And the rest of the vehicle doesn't show the same kind of corrosion. I installed my snow plow bracket for the winter last weekend. Here's a pic I took before putting it on as a comparison to someone who had the front radiator lower support rusted through (that I think is consistent with a collision repair done wrong, not an OEM frame rust problem). It's a little dirty - but you can see that generally I'm not seeing much rust on the frame areas. It looks to me to be consistent with what I expect on a 6 year old vehicle that sees a lot of winter weather. I'm generally pretty happy with it. It's just on the hardware in some specific spots. And where it's bad - it's really bad. I'm making a big assumption that it's due to the type of antiseize I used. That may be totally wrong. I just can't explain much else. Or it's just really shitty hardware? That's very possible. What's odd about that is that some of the hardware looks almost like new where I haven't touched it. So???

 

[Jono.ful]

...

That's wild. Every piece of hardware I've applied copperkote too still shows the black oem finish if I wipe off the antiseize. I'm curious what the difference is, since my truck is a '12, I certainly live in the snow belt here in Alberta, and they used the salt brine spray on our roads until this year. That stuff corrodes everything - including our bridges, lamp posts, and even reinforcing steel inbedded in concrete.

I've not tried the purple loctite. I use red and blue as per the FSM, and everything else gets the green pre-assembly loctite because it wicks right down the fastener where it really needs to go.

Have you done any sort of undercoating? There's a local business here that starting applying a petroleum wax coating they brought over from Europe. Apparently it's the same as the oem undercoat used by Porsche and Mercedes. Their process involves ice blasting the frame and painting any bare steel with spray on por15 top coat, then applying the wax. I just had it put on in October, but they claim it should last ten years, and it still looks just as good as when they finished putting it on, despite weekly car washes (with high pressure under body wash).

 

[LandCruiser]

That's wild. Every piece of hardware I've applied copperkote too still shows the black oem finish if I wipe off the antiseize. I'm curious what the difference is, since my truck is a '12, I certainly live in the snow belt here in Alberta, and they used the salt brine spray on our roads until this year. That stuff corrodes everything - including our bridges, lamp posts, and even reinforcing steel inbedded in concrete.

I've not tried the purple loctite. I use red and blue as per the FSM, and everything else gets the green pre-assembly loctite because it wicks right down the fastener where it really needs to go.

Have you done any sort of undercoating? There's a local business here that starting applying a petroleum wax coating they brought over from Europe. Apparently it's the same as the oem undercoat used by Porsche and Mercedes. Their process involves ice blasting the frame and painting any bare steel with spray on por15 top coat, then applying the wax. I just had it put on in October, but they claim it should last ten years, and it still looks just as good as when they finished putting it on, despite weekly car washes (with high pressure under body wash).

I don't know what kind of road salt they use in AB, but that rustlooks about right for Utard and Calirado.

 

[Jetboy]

That's wild. Every piece of hardware I've applied copperkote too still shows the black oem finish if I wipe off the antiseize. I'm curious what the difference is, since my truck is a '12, I certainly live in the snow belt here in Alberta, and they used the salt brine spray on our roads until this year. That stuff corrodes everything - including our bridges, lamp posts, and even reinforcing steel inbedded in concrete.

I've not tried the purple loctite. I use red and blue as per the FSM, and everything else gets the green pre-assembly loctite because it wicks right down the fastener where it really needs to go.

Have you done any sort of undercoating? There's a local business here that starting applying a petroleum wax coating they brought over from Europe. Apparently it's the same as the oem undercoat used by Porsche and Mercedes. Their process involves ice blasting the frame and painting any bare steel with spray on por15 top coat, then applying the wax. I just had it put on in October, but they claim it should last ten years, and it still looks just as good as when they finished putting it on, despite weekly car washes (with high pressure under body wash).

No undercoating on mine. Just factory finish. I've had a gallon of fluid film in my garage for at least 2 years now. Never got around to putting it on. Kinda because it doesn't really need it. It's basically just the hardware that has been a problem. And only some of it. Those ones in the picture the threads were so badly rusted they just fell off basically. And that's pretty consistent with all of the skid plate hardware on mine. I've replaced most of it over time. And I've really struggled with the lower shock bolts and the alignment cams. I just can't seem to keep them from seizing up. :noidea:

We do use a lot of regular cheap salt on the roads here. And I mean a LOT. I live in Utah and the salt flats are just down the road so salt is essentially free. And they use it like it's free. My city even pre-salt the roads between storms in my neighborhood just to get ready for the next one even if there's not a storm in the near term forecast. They'll just come out and coat the roads anyway. It's a big PITA because it causes my dog to get sores on her feet when we go run. And she doesn't like wearing booties.

Anyway, that's why I was suggesting to the OP that if he's doing suspension on a new one - go crazy with the anti-seize now so you don't have problems later! The extra $10 now will be worth it.

On the plus side - if that's the worst rust I end up with - I'm okay with that. The body and frame seem to be pretty resistant to rust. Body is totally rust free. Frame just has minor surface rust. And I just replace those skid plate bolts with stainless as I need to. Biggest overall PITA is fixing the weld-nuts that strip out or break off.

 

[MAST4R]

. Rear I took off and put the OEM rears back on for now. Just haven't had a chance to put something new on yet.
Good luck!

Ha! That's must ride dreadful till fixed. I decided to try the Eibach rear in place of the 2.0 Icons to see what happens. Front is still 6112 on 650lb springs.

Well, the ride off-road in slow to mid-speed desert terrain was not any different (not softer) but the feel on interstate is worse (feels like the rear is less planted than with the Icons).

So I will probably go back to the Icons in a couple months and keep the Eibachs as spares, which is what I thought might happen anyway.

I have a question for you:

The Icon is advertised as 1-3" lift and I have 1" lift in the rear. Do you think that going up a little will position the shaft better so as to offer more travel and thereby maybe a little more comfort at 10-20 mph offroad? Sitting up front is fine, but on certain terrains even my 9yo in the back, who is well used to offroad, finds it a little rough. That's aired down to around 28 for higher speeds and 21 for lower speed trails. I don't feel like driving faster at 21 psi.

 

[Vathana_Sim]

That's Sweet Man! I wish they have fox suspensions for 2nd gen 4 runners...

 

[Jetboy]

Ha! That's must ride dreadful till fixed. I decided to try the Eibach rear in place of the 2.0 Icons to see what happens. Front is still 6112 on 650lb springs.

Well, the ride off-road in slow to mid-speed desert terrain was not any different (not softer) but the feel on interstate is worse (feels like the rear is less planted than with the Icons).

So I will probably go back to the Icons in a couple months and keep the Eibachs as spares, which is what I thought might happen anyway.

I have a question for you:

The Icon is advertised as 1-3" lift and I have 1" lift in the rear. Do you think that going up a little will position the shaft better so as to offer more travel and thereby maybe a little more comfort at 10-20 mph offroad? Sitting up front is fine, but on certain terrains even my 9yo in the back, who is well used to offroad, finds it a little rough. That's aired down to around 28 for higher speeds and 21 for lower speed trails. I don't feel like driving faster at 21 psi.

I'm not sure starting at a higher ride height will help a lot. I can't find specs quickly on the icon shocks. The comparable fox rear shocks have about 8.5" of travel. I'd have to go measure, but ideally you'll want something like half of the travel up and down. I'd think with a 1" lift you still have 4 inches of up travel or more. My guess is that the harshness is mostly due to the shocks being pretty firmly valved like the fox performance series I have. They valve them pretty firm because they don't want you blowing through the stroke and bottoming out all the time. So it's a balance.

What would ride a lot nicer is a soft valved shock and a long soft bump stop. So it would act more like a dual zone spring/shock combo. The larger diameter shocks also tend to run a lot softer at lower speeds. I'm not entirely sure why they don't valve them similarly. At mid and lower speeds - the OEM shocks on the rear of mine ride better than the fox shocks did. It's noticeably softer and more comfortable for the middle seat passengers with the factory shocks.

I actually think that some of the twin tube rear shocks might perform better in most cases than the mid-price mono-tube setups. They can use more complex valving because they have both a piston valve and a tube end valve set that can do different things. Once you hit a certain price point though - you can buy a pair of rear king 2.5" shocks for about $900/set. And once you get to that point I think it's probably best to go with those and then setup your valving how you like.

 

[MAST4R]

I'm not sure starting at a higher ride height will help a lot. I can't find specs quickly on the icon shocks. The comparable fox rear shocks have about 8.5" of travel. I'd have to go measure, but ideally you'll want something like half of the travel up and down. I'd think with a 1" lift you still have 4 inches of up travel or more. My guess is that the harshness is mostly due to the shocks being pretty firmly valved like the fox performance series I have. They valve them pretty firm because they don't want you blowing through the stroke and bottoming out all the time. So it's a balance.

What would ride a lot nicer is a soft valved shock and a long soft bump stop. So it would act more like a dual zone spring/shock combo. The larger diameter shocks also tend to run a lot softer at lower speeds. I'm not entirely sure why they don't valve them similarly. At mid and lower speeds - the OEM shocks on the rear of mine ride better than the fox shocks did. It's noticeably softer and more comfortable for the middle seat passengers with the factory shocks.

I actually think that some of the twin tube rear shocks might perform better in most cases than the mid-price mono-tube setups. They can use more complex valving because they have both a piston valve and a tube end valve set that can do different things. Once you hit a certain price point though - you can buy a pair of rear king 2.5" shocks for about $900/set. And once you get to that point I think it's probably best to go with those and then setup your valving how you like.

Thanks, yes, the Icons do great at preventing bottoming out. Had not had any since installing them; bottomed out too often when stock.

The issue with 2.5 rears per the Radflo owner (I talked to him over the phone) is that you are not supposed to run a bigger shaft rear than in the front (the 6112s have a small shaft for a big shock). I wanted his 2.5 Radflo rears w/o reservoirs. He did not make any money off that advice plus seemed like a true enthusiast so I guess he is right.

I might next try the Billstein 1.5" rear spring at 186lb rate. The 1" Eibach I have is 204 or so.

The Icon 2.0 is 8 7/8 shaft length and the body is 13" before it dm decreases at the top.

The ride is fine, I am just looking for optimization. When it felt a bit much was last month: we drove from near Big Water up Croton Rd-Left Hand Collet intersection--Smoky Mountain back south as a loop in not much time. Croton is slow in places but fun. Smoky mountain is fast at the ends but very annoying in the middle, neither fast, nor slow, lots of embedded rock.

The ride is great in low range and at higher speeds. It is the mid-speeds over mildly rocky terrain that can be too much given enough mileage.