question for v8 owners

[charlier180]

Whats hypermiling?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/03/AR2006080301403.html

My favorite technique is the "Turn Off Your Car and Coast".
I would like to invite these proponents of this philosophy to drive my daily driver and try this.
Shutting off the engine in this vehicle (and all the others I own) means one has 2 or maybe 3 pumps on the brake pedal before the brakes stop working.
Then you are S*O*L when it comes to stopping.

Would also be interesting to try this technique in a vehicle with power steering.

Some of the other techniques like Driving the Speed Limit, Avoiding "jack-rabbit starts", Tire Pressure, Optimizing one's Route and oil changes/maintenance are easy and not very dangerous. Some of us here have been doing (or trying to do) these things for the last 30+ years so "hypermiling" is far from a new, revolutionary concept except for the dangerous parts which do appear to be something new.

I do seriously question the amount of MPG increases that people using the hypermiling techniques claim.
I would need to see detailed evidence of both before and after MPG figures (CALCULATED, not the display on a car's dash) before I would become a believer.

I do agree that people can increase their MPG by simply re-thinking how they use their vehicles.

If I had a dollar for every time I have seen:
- LONG lines at the bank and fast food drive thru lanes with countless cars idling for long periods of time
- people idling for 30-40+ minutes in the parking lot of the food store/Walmart (w/o and small children in the vehicle) with the A/C blasting
- people driving around a parking lot for 5-10 minutes or more waiting for a parking space closer to the door of the store to open up
- people driving on SERIOUSLY under inflated tires

FYI here is another web site: http://www.hypermiling.com/

 

[blkexp98]

I definatly need to work on my driving habits if yall are getting close to 400 miles per tank. I have never had my mileage meter on the dash go over say 315 when filling up and topping it off. My normal mileage on the dash computer is around 15 to 18 depending on highway or city but 15 more than 18. So i guess that means im getting 13 or 16MPG.

Ill have to up the pressure next time I have the 4runner close to work. We have a nitrogen fill station there but i only filled the tires to about 32psi when i changed over. I ran some seafoam through my explorer a while back and wish there was an alternative to all the white smoke. It looked like i set of a big smoke bomb after running for a few minutes.

Ive tried the lucas oil fuel additive and its worked good i think in the explorer so far. I just didnt think the 4runner would get dirty enough to see any benefit now.

The air filter is a good point and iu probably do need to change that. I put my K&N (i know the dreaded oil) back in my explorer after using the paper filter and it seemed to pep it up a little. That probably hurt my mileage though. :bash:

Does changing the Diff. fluid really help any or is that more of a just good thing to do for longevity like synthetic engine oil?

Im always up for better mileage but we all knew what we were buying from the start. This isnt some econo car. With that said I do however keep my eye out to help it out if i can. So keep the suggestions coming.

 

[ndrwdvs]

OK, I posted these results on another thread, but I'll post them again here, to make sure you see it, especially for "blkexp98" since he is getting such poor mileage. I have a 2005 T4R Limited with V8, automatic tranny, AWD, etc. completely stock, except for the upgraded wheels they put on ALL T4R's.
I usually get 390 - 415 mpg, depending whether I want to feel the power and how often. I resisted that urge for nearly 2 weeks while doing this test. It is by no means scientific, but it's good enough for me.
That said, I was getting (per dashboard display) 24.7 mpg unitl the last day, when I took my wife with me to Home Depot. When I drive her around, I always use the A/C, unless it's cool outside. It was 90 degrees yesterday, so there went the mileage.
It was the last day on that tank of gas, so I filled up on the way home. The dashboard display now read 24.3mpg. According to the trip odometer, I had gone 479.2 miles on that tank of gas! At 25mpg, that was a savings of over 2 gallons or $8.00! Can't complain about that.
As far as how I hypermile, I am not a diehard. I have tried increasing speed using the cruise control (which I think is very efficient) to 60mph, coasting to 40 mph, and speeding up again, always keeping the tranny in high gear. When I coast, I don't cut the engine, but put it in neutral. I think the wear on the starter is more expensive than whatever gas I might save. I try to anticipate traffic and traffic signals. Sometimes, if I know the area, and am confident there aren't any cops around, I will do a rolling stop sign.
The last thing I did, and this didn't affect my "test" mileage much, because I did it just before taking my wife to Home Depot, was to inflate my tires to 38 gpsi. This seems to be a really big deal, because at 32 gpsi, my truck would eventually get up to around 15 mph without ever hitting the gas, but not enough to shift the tranny. At the 38 gpsi, I didn't let it go to max speed, but it shifted gears, and was going about 20 mph when I hit the gas. The truck seems to roll so much better.
The first time I backed out of my carport, I nearly wrecked into the fence, because it took off so fast! LOL
Hope this helps you out of the teens...

 

[JungleJim]

Nice numbers guys , ya the V8 get such worse milage than the V6 .....lol.

Heck, the V8 should get at least 5 mpg better than the V6 since the V6 has to work SOOOOOO hard to move the heavy
rig :biggrin2:

I'm waiting for Toyota to put a V10 in it so it can get even better mpg!

 

[Markr]

Holy Smokes!!!!!

I was going to start a thread on gas mileage but will see if I get any responses here. I think something is wrong with my 4Runner after reading this.

I have been noticing lately my gas milieage is REALLY BAD. How bad? For a couple of tanks now I have been getting 14 mpg and I do mostly highway driving!!!

For instance I filled 18 gallons last night and got 255 miles on the previous tank.

Anyone has any ideas on what is going on!!! I have a K&N, stock size Revo's adn 65K on the clock.

Please help!!!

Glad I'm not the only one. I'm getting about 14mpg.
My '07 V8 Sport 4WD is nearly the same setup as yours. K&N and everything else stock for me. 11k miles. The mileage was the same before I installed the K&N a month or two ago.
Most of my driving is highway. I drive drive 27 miles each way to work and typically drive between 75 and 80 on the highway. I think the mileage drops off sharply as you get much over 60-65 because of the 4WD, weight, and frontal area but I can't substantiate that. My foot is too heavy

Anybody know what the mileage is at various highway speeds ?

 

[Even Steven]

Heck, the V8 should get at least 5 mpg better than the V6 since the V6 has to work SOOOOOO hard to move the heavy
rig :biggrin2:

I'm waiting for Toyota to put a V10 in it so it can get even better mpg!

Did you know that an internal combustion engine is MORE efficient when it is working harder? Think about it..... a big, lumbering V8 just loafing along at low RPM is terribly inefficient. Appoximately 80% of an engine's power is wasted as heat anyway.

 

[ndrwdvs]

I don't know what's going on with your mileage, but I agree <i><b>something</b></i> is wrong. When I "hot rod" mine I still get 17.5 mpg. That's flooring the gas or the brake all the time.

I wonder if maybe you have the "hill assist" button pushed in. Or a flat tire. That's drastically reduced mileage.

 

[nc211]

I think you have to take into account your location though, as Florida is flat as a pancake, requiring much less hp to get moving. I live on the western side of raleigh and commute into Chapel Hill, via hilly back country roads. If I ginger-foot it, I'll average around 18-19mpg on the read out. If I get heavy footed, it drops down into the 16 range. One thing I have started doing though is popping it into neutral a lot more, which seems to help quite a bit. I'll coast down a hill, and I'll also coast up to a stop light. It also seems to prevent the clunk problem too, as it relieves the stress on the drive shaft, allowing the slider sleeve to seat itself normally.

This hypermilling stuff sounds like a serious lawsuit waiting to happen! I can assure you, if someone hit me or my family, and their engine computer indicated the car was off at the time of the accident, I'm going to sue the snot out of you and your insurance company. If you don't want an engine, then ride a bike. Saving $10 bucks by diabling your braking and steering ability in an emergency situation seems like a pretty stupid thing to do, in my opinion, and certainly won't payoff if god forbid you happen to have an accident.

 

[Even Steven]

This hypermilling stuff sounds like a serious lawsuit waiting to happen! I can assure you, if someone hit me or my family, and their engine computer indicated the car was off at the time of the accident, I'm going to sue the snot out of you and your insurance company. .

Most aspects of hypermiling are safe, but I agree that turning off the engine isn't such a great idea. I doubt many people are taking it that far. But even if they are, it would be virtually impossible to ever prove it because engines often stall during an accident or have an intentional fuel cut to prevent a fire from starting. That's why it would be nearly impossible to prove that someone caused an accident by shutting off his/her engine in the interest of hypermiling.

 

[shuly]

When my runner was stock it could get mileage numbers as high as 24. This would only happen out on very long highway drives at about 80 mph. Since I added the lift kit, tires, skids, sliders, and the bullbar/winch....yeah it has suffered. I think the best I saw on this last trip hwy was about 18.

But heck I didn't buy my 4runner for its mileage...if I was worried about mileage I would get a hybrid highlander or prius or something. Why is everyone so worried about their mileage on their runners....come on people...didn't you buy the 4runner for its ability and not its mileage? Heck if I was only buying for mileage I would never even consider a 4runner.

If you want range you could always throw your spare on the roof and add a 2nd fuel tank Of course then it will cost double to fill up...

 

[ndrwdvs]

Here I am, defending my actions hypermiling:
When I performed my experiment, I stated that it was an experiment to see how good mpg I could get. I think 24.7 is great, but it was an experiment. I tried cutting off the engine, but I didn't like it, and it seemed a bit extreme. Coasting with the engine running is great, but I always put in back in gear and 25 mph to prevent a clunk at the stop.
Also, someone said, "come on people...didn't you buy the 4runner for its ability and not its mileage?"
I did buy it for what it can do, but don't intend to push that limit, either. I bought it mainly because I like it. I care about the gas mileage, but it gets good enough without going to all that trouble.
As I stated before, I don't think coasting with engine off is worth the extra cost of replacing a starter and associated parts.

 

[nc211]

Most aspects of hypermiling are safe, but I agree that turning off the engine isn't such a great idea. I doubt many people are taking it that far. But even if they are, it would be virtually impossible to ever prove it because engines often stall during an accident or have an intentional fuel cut to prevent a fire from starting. That's why it would be nearly impossible to prove that someone caused an accident by shutting off his/her engine in the interest of hypermiling.

I think the engine computers of the past couple of years on all cars continuesly record the last 60 seconds of operation, I think, kind of like black boxes on airplanes. I think they do this, I recall hearing something about it on the news a while back.

I'm sorry ndrwdvs, I didn't mean to bark directly at you. I was talking in general to those who keep turning off their cars to coast. I just think the risks outweight the rewards not only for their own safety, but those around them too. I'd hate to have to handle a car in an emergency situation with my hands tied behind my back, which essentially is what is done to the car with the engine off.

 

[ndrwdvs]

No offense taken. I read a few articles about the subject, and even they stated that it is not a good idea in all cases. They said that an <i>experienced</i> driver, on a straight course might want to do it, but in my experience as an experienced driver, ***t happens. There is a reason for the bumper sticker.

 

[Markr]

I don't know what's going on with your mileage, but I agree <i><b>something</b></i> is wrong. When I "hot rod" mine I still get 17.5 mpg. That's flooring the gas or the brake all the time.

I wonder if maybe you have the "hill assist" button pushed in. Or a flat tire. That's drastically reduced mileage.

Hill Assist....Flat Tire......:lmao: that's great.

I know the newly adopted EPA ratings now have my Sport V8 4x4 at 14 city and 17 hgwy. And EPA numbers aren't usually real life numbers. How are you getting over rated mileage while riding it hard ?

I will add that being in Florida I'm driving with the A/C on all the time. Combine that with steady 75-80 driving and maybe that explains it ? My computer indicates around 17mpg, but the computer overestimates by about 2mpg from what I understand.

 

[ndrwdvs]

Yeah, I'm in FL, too, But I go to work @ 5am, and go home @ 2pm, so I don't run a/c in the morning and sometimes not in the afternoon. I live in Jax, so I don't know if that makes a diff in temp. I don't know what is going on with your T4r. Or mine, for sure. I am quoting the MPG indicated on the display.

 

[Markr]

Yeah, I'm in FL, too, But I go to work @ 5am, and go home @ 2pm, so I don't run a/c in the morning and sometimes not in the afternoon. I live in Jax, so I don't know if that makes a diff in temp. I don't know what is going on with your T4r. Or mine, for sure. I am quoting the MPG indicated on the display.

Maybe we're closer on mileage than we realized.
If the computer does overestimate by about 2 mpg, then we're getting about the same mpg. I calculated a tank manually which came out to about 14 mpg. That would put us within about 1mpg of each other.

 

[ndrwdvs]

You said, <b>"Maybe we're closer on mileage than we realized.
If the computer does overestimate by about 2 mpg, then we're getting about the same mpg. I calculated a tank manually which came out to about 14 mpg. That would put us within about 1mpg of each other."</b>
I don't think my computer display is incorrect. I know the estimated miles remaining is incorrect, but actual mpg is, I think, correct. The reason I say this is when I bought the truck and told my brother I was getting 19 - 21.5 mpg, he didn't believe me. He told me the computer was wrong, and asked if I had actually done the math. I hadn't, so the next tankful, I did the math and came out exactly the same as the computer.
Then, he said the odometer in my truck was probably wrong. So, the next time I drove to Lake City, as well as Ft Myers and other places, I watch the mile markers, even going 10 miles at a time, and still, my odometer seems correct.
Being the true brother he is, he said, "How do you know the mile markers are spaced correctly?" That's when I quit bothering with the whole "incorrect computer" idea.
So, I guess it could be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[blueleezard]

mileage

All: for economy reasons, now that my wife and I have traded vehicles, with the T4R she's getting just a tad more than 19.3 MPG on her much shorter commute [calculated, not computer], mostly highway -- while the Volvo S70 T5 SE that I drive back and forth to the city every day [also described in the sig-line] is achieving just a hair under 26.5 MPG with my much heavier lead foot and more stop and go. With the price of gas heading up every hour [or so it seems], we're happy with the $ saving every month. I have to admit missing the T4R as my daily driver, but as I've said elsewhere, the Swede is a great deal of fun regardless. I put a high-octane fuel additive in the T4R every tank and that seems to improve consumption slightly, enough to cover the cost. I hope these figures help inform fellow owners.

Cheers to all,

Blueleezard

 

[Markr]

You said, <b>"Maybe we're closer on mileage than we realized.
If the computer does overestimate by about 2 mpg, then we're getting about the same mpg. I calculated a tank manually which came out to about 14 mpg. That would put us within about 1mpg of each other."</b>
I don't think my computer display is incorrect. I know the estimated miles remaining is incorrect, but actual mpg is, I think, correct. The reason I say this is when I bought the truck and told my brother I was getting 19 - 21.5 mpg, he didn't believe me. He told me the computer was wrong, and asked if I had actually done the math. I hadn't, so the next tankful, I did the math and came out exactly the same as the computer.
Then, he said the odometer in my truck was probably wrong. So, the next time I drove to Lake City, as well as Ft Myers and other places, I watch the mile markers, even going 10 miles at a time, and still, my odometer seems correct.
Being the true brother he is, he said, "How do you know the mile markers are spaced correctly?" That's when I quit bothering with the whole "incorrect computer" idea.
So, I guess it could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Wow...you've calculated it manually and you're getting 19+ mpg. Man that's great... I'm not sure how you're getting mileage that good without babying it all the time. I think you got a good one :bowdown:

 

[djw717]

I've searched the archives and this is the closest thread I could find to my question, which is.....does anyone know why the in dash computer calculated MPG display is always 1.5-3 MPG higher than actual MPG? Does Toyota have an official stance on this?

I've always manually calculated my own MPG. Reset the trip odo and top-off the tank past the manual shut-off every fill-up, etc. Bottom line is, I know my calculations are accurate, but the computer overstates mileage by a variable amount every time. I've wondered about this since I bought the vehicle but never found an answer. Thanks for any input.

Oh, and for the record, the '03 V8 holds 24.50 gallons of gas. Don't ask me how far I was from civilization when I figured that one out.