Rear long Travel

[twitchee2]

I am starting to think about what i want to do with my 4runner which is in need of suspension. the vast majority of the wheeling i do is more desert environments and dunes rather then rock crawling. (socal) Obviously this is a 4runner and it has some serious limitations relative to rear long travel.

I know the rear 4link does have quite a bit of flex and droop to it. I have searched and search and cannot find an answer to my one question. Assuming there are no shock limitations, no brake lines to worry about, no strength issues of the upper and lower links or even drive shaft slip to worry about. How much down travel can the stock 4link actually handle? is 12-14 inches realistic? More? Less? I know i measured 10inches from the bump stop to the top of my axle with my OME set up installed.

What do you guys think?

 

[t4r4life]

i think to really have travel you have to ditch the stock coil and shock setup and go for the coilovers. and there is pretty much no way to have sufficient up travel without cutting into the cab. you can always box off the shock tower in the cab that way it's still somewhat stock looking.

 

[4x4runner2002]

maybe [MENTION=82691]Broker[/MENTION] can help a little i know hes got a lot of thought into his rear end and will be changing it soon

 

[twitchee2]

I do have thoughts about what i want to do. I look forward to his reply.

Right now i am not concerned about shocks or placement or anything like that. Just how much travel the stock 4 link can actually handle. Forgot to mention I would not be using the coils and buckets. so those can be eliminated from the equation for now as well.

 

[t4r4life]

can i ask why you would want to keep the stock link system?

 

[snivilous]

As t4r4life said, it's a little tricky if you don't cut into the cab.

The easiest method is to convert to leafs and then run a cantilevered setup. If you stay linked, you could run a cantilever setup but then your coils would probably be too long (so you'd need a guide post like a coilover) but a coilover wouldn't fit above the axle, so to get around that you could run a trailing arm setup with shorter coils moved forward. At that point I would triangulate the rear, just since it's a more simple and elegant design and then the axle wouldn't be shifting to the side when drooping. This is the route I'm tentatively planning on going...

Here is a quote from [MENTION=79343]enigmadsm[/MENTION] who I talked to a lot about suspension design.

I currently have a 3rd gen with an OME lift, and a double cab taco that is long traveled...the ride difference is amazing! then again, so are the creeks, groans, and noises lol.
I'm interested to see how your rear design will look. IMO the rear is more important than up front, and if you are netting 13+ inches of travel up front, I think you're going to want a few more inches than that in the rear. i think you should relook at the shocks and coilover options out there as well. Nothing wrong with Bilstein, but these more expensive brands are worth their weight when you're cycling through whoops and don't want to buck around, plus the shock tuning is awesome.
Have you thought about going to leafs out back with a custom deaver pack? Factory links is sweet, maybe go off that and work up a triangulated rear?

an easy/basic set up that would gain you about 12" of travel would be some simple hoops, but again I think you're gonna want more travel than that....alas, here is a pic for example:

 

[twitchee2]

can i ask why you would want to keep the stock link system?

I would like to try and avoid re engineering all of the geometry of the rear end. In my eyes it doesn't matter how you hold the weight up so that part will come in time, but the geometry of the links is very important. If it is possible i would rather leave all of that there, that is why I want to see how far it can be pushed.

If it is not realistic or feasible I will go a different route, but I just always curious how far it can go.

 

[twitchee2]

As t4r4life said, it's a little tricky if you don't cut into the cab.

The easiest method is to convert to leafs and then run a cantilevered setup. If you stay linked, you could run a cantilever setup but then your coils would probably be too long (so you'd need a guide post like a coilover) but a coilover wouldn't fit above the axle, so to get around that you could run a trailing arm setup with shorter coils moved forward. At that point I would triangulate the rear, just since it's a more simple and elegant design and then the axle wouldn't be shifting to the side when drooping. This is the route I'm tentatively planning on going...

Here is a quote from [MENTION=79343]enigmadsm[/MENTION] who I talked to a lot about suspension design.

i have read through that build extensively and I dont want to go that route. My idea is to run a cantilever system using coilovers rather then leafs.

 

[crazydubman]

I will try to see if I can get a number from frame to axle at full droop to negate any bump stop factor. I think I may be running longer shocks than most so we will see where that gets you. I do know that My axle will droop more than my shocks allow and they are already 25.5" extended. The problem comes in to how much side shift the axle gets at that much droop. (I know you have stated you are not worried about it.

Here is what you are looking at. Again, you can probably get another inch of droop from this point. Up travel will be about what stock is at if you can get the shocks to fit.



And a shot to show the articulated droop it gets with the current combo. No body lift.

Hope that helps ya out a little.

 

[dhalsey]

This Tacoma has a cantilever setup and they retained the stock bed. 16 inches of rear travel. Sweet setup. http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1312-2001-toyota-tacoma-4x4-the-braap-mobile/ that would be an awesome setup for our trucks

 

[Jedrattle]

This Tacoma has a cantilever setup and they retained the stock bed. 16 inches of rear travel. Sweet setup. 2001 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 - The Braap Mobile - Off-Road Magazine that would be an awesome setup for our trucks

The pan hard bar is in the way for type of setup.

I am going to look at the possibility of an upper wish bone, longer lower links, and a cantilever coilover shock setup. I have seen this setup on 1st gen runner. owner said it worked pretty good. You can leave the gas tank alone with setup. The wish bone takes place of the pan hard bar and uppers to give you more room.

 

[5RUNNERZ]

I will try to see if I can get a number from frame to axle at full droop to negate any bump stop factor. I think I may be running longer shocks than most so we will see where that gets you. I do know that My axle will droop more than my shocks allow and they are already 25.5" extended. The problem comes in to how much side shift the axle gets at that much droop. (I know you have stated you are not worried about it.

Here is what you are looking at. Again, you can probably get another inch of droop from this point. Up travel will be about what stock is at if you can get the shocks to fit.



And a shot to show the articulated droop it gets with the current combo. No body lift.

Hope that helps ya out a little.

are those shocks the camburgs???? if not what are they because i need new shocks and wanted to match the back to the front!!!

 

[IBallEngineer]

the geometry of the links is very important. If it is possible i would rather leave all of that there, that is why I want to see how far it can be pushed.

I don't think anyone knows, so they offer you alternatives instead!

:biggrin2:

 

[crazydubman]

are those shocks the camburgs???? if not what are they because i need new shocks and wanted to match the back to the front!!!

They are the swayaways for a 4th gen 4runner.

I had them on my 06 and wanted to extended length over anything. There were some minor fitment issues with the top mount that had to be addressed when installing. Plus the compressed length is longer than some of the 3rd gen applications out there.

All in all, the articulated compression still puts my 305/70/16's on 2 5/8" BS 16x8's up inside the rear fender about an inch or two. With some clearancing of course

 

[twitchee2]

I don't think anyone knows, so they offer you alternatives instead!

:biggrin2:

I have a feeling you are 100% correct. A leaf swap has been on my list of options. The more i think about it, they are much easier to build and tried and true. I know i saw a 4th gen leaf swap setup. I need to find that link again. It was a killer setup.

I think that might be the "best" option for me.

 

[crazydubman]

I have a feeling you are 100% correct. A leaf swap has been on my list of options. The more i think about it, they are much easier to build and tried and true. I know i saw a 4th gen leaf swap setup. I need to find that link again. It was a killer setup.

I think that might be the "best" option for me.

That is what im leaning towards on my future build on the 06. Deaver spring under with 2.5 16" triples up through the floor to a cargo area "bed cage". Somehow will seal up the cargo area so it doesn't leak. Can leave the factory gas tank, will get no axle side shift throughout the suspension cycle, and get 17" strapped.

Thats if you want to go that burley. Otherwise, a set of triple bypasses outboarded with a C notched frame. then again, you are still working with coil springs there and can only get so long. My 861's actually work really well for my length shock and have no chance of popping out. Probably would be find with another inch longer shock too.

 

[snivilous]

I have a feeling you are 100% correct. A leaf swap has been on my list of options. The more i think about it, they are much easier to build and tried and true. I know i saw a 4th gen leaf swap setup. I need to find that link again. It was a killer setup.

I think that might be the "best" option for me.

This is probably the 4th gen you are thinking about: How to ruin a 2008 4Runner - TTORA Forum

Converted to leafs with a cantilever setup so the body didn't get cut into.

 

[twitchee2]

This is probably the 4th gen you are thinking about: How to ruin a 2008 4Runner - TTORA Forum

Converted to leafs with a cantilever setup so the body didn't get cut into.

Thats the one. This guy is local to me too. ill have to talk to him.

 

[5RUNNERZ]

They are the swayaways for a 4th gen 4runner.

I had them on my 06 and wanted to extended length over anything. There were some minor fitment issues with the top mount that had to be addressed when installing. Plus the compressed length is longer than some of the 3rd gen applications out there.

All in all, the articulated compression still puts my 305/70/16's on 2 5/8" BS 16x8's up inside the rear fender about an inch or two. With some clearancing of course

I have 33's and I am not sure what lift is in the back but i was thinking of going with LC 8 wrap (i think this is the one that gives you appx 3inchs) and looking for a lot of flex! and the truck came with a 1 inch body lift :barf:

and what kinda of fitment issues?? any pics?? and what did it in tale to get them in??

 

[crazydubman]

I have 33's and I am not sure what lift is in the back but i was thinking of going with LC 8 wrap (i think this is the one that gives you appx 3inchs) and looking for a lot of flex! and the truck came with a 1 inch body lift :barf:

and what kinda of fitment issues?? any pics?? and what did it in tale to get them in??

Well I went a different route initially and it made things potentially more difficult.

I started out with swapping in a set of factory 06 4runner shocks. (2-3" longer than stock and I think the same specs as the bilstein 5100's) They have a cone washer that seats up against the mount above the bottom bushing. In order for the cone washer to seat properly, I had to drill out the upper hole with a unibit till it fit snug. I don't remember how much but it was around 3/4-7/8". When I swapped the sway aways in I found out that I may not have had to drill at all seeing as the nipples on the bushings weren't as large. It was trial and error as I didn't have anything else to base the initial swap of the factory 06 shocks.

My plan when I first got the runner involved swapping to a full width 60/14b combo with coilovers in the back so the factory mounting points weren't going to be used anyways. When I drilled the holes, I figured that would be the last set of shocks I would be mounting so I didn't worry about it.

Either way, I ended up with what I have now and they ride great and have more than enough articulation for anything I could throw at the runner with the IFS front. Just be sure to look into limit straps to keep full extension in check.