Replaced Starter Contacts- Still not working

[sambishop]

Got an interesting one for you guys- I have a symptom with my starter where sometimes it doesn't start on the first try. It doesn't really "click" either. It sounds like it spins but isn't catching the motor. but it ALWAYS catches on the second try. the wiring to the starter looked good from what I saw.

Any Ideas?

 

[IBallEngineer]

Got an interesting one for you guys- I have a symptom with my starter where sometimes it doesn't start on the first try. It doesn't really "click" either. It sounds like it spins but isn't catching the motor. but it ALWAYS catches on the second try. the wiring to the starter looked good from what I saw.

Any Ideas?

Well that is a symptom indicative of a bad plunger, not contacts. The contacts are working that is why the starter turns, but the plunger is not moving the drive gear in to position. See the picture in this link.

Starter motor exploded view | Pearltrees

It could be a broken linkage or related item too.

 

[sambishop]

Well that is a symptom indicative of a bad plunger, not contacts. The contacts are working that is why the starter turns, but the plunger is not moving the drive gear in to position. See the picture in this link.
It could be a broken linkage or related item too.

Interesting. Is this the linkage you're talking about?

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[IBallEngineer]

That or anything connected to it.

:couch2:

 

[TheDurk]

That or anything connected to it.

:couch2:

Except Denso starters don't have that kind of linkage and don't work that way.

The solenoid pushes directly on a pinion/clutch assembly. No linkage.

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/02toyrm/02toypdf/02rmsour/2002/024runne/st5vzfe/star/comp.pdf

Further reading:

http://home.earthlink.net/~twopapa/nocrank.htm

In the early 70s NipponDenso engineers eliminated the lever by reversing the previous arrangement, placing the solenoid coaxial with the pinion and offsetting the motor to drive the pinion through reduction gearing. It was an altogether brilliant move. The motor could be reduced in size and weight and still produce the same cranking power because it rotated at higher rpms. Conversely, the switch contacts no longer had to fit within the solenoid shell and could be made larger, so they would last longer. And with the solenoid acting directly on the pinion, a 12-volt gear-reduction Denso starter will usually operate reliably with as little as 7 volts applied to the solenoid.

Here is how you test the motor function, and the solenoid/plunger/clutch/pinion function separately.

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/02toyrm/02toypdf/02rmsour/2002/024runne/st5vzfe/star/test.pdf

 

[IBallEngineer]

Yeah like that one, still has a plunger, but how does the motor turn if the plunger doesn't pull in the gear?

 

[TheDurk]

Yeah like that one, still has a plunger, but how does the motor turn if the plunger doesn't pull in the gear?

I believe the clutch is set up that when the speed of the ring exceeds the speed of the pinion, it forces the pinion gear back in along a large screw thread, even if the plunger is still pushed forward by the solenoid.

My Delco tractor starter has no plunger or solenoid at all, and works that way.

 

[sambishop]

Will test and report sometime next week. Stand by.

 

[nissanh]

Here is a detailed picture

I believe the clutch is set up that when the speed of the ring exceeds the speed of the pinion, it forces the pinion gear back in along a large screw thread, even if the plunger is still pushed forward by the solenoid.

My Delco tractor starter has no plunger or solenoid at all, and works that way.

See the 2nd picture to the right in the first link. There are splines (thread like) on the pinion gear shaft.

Starters | DENSO Auto Parts

https://starterok.com/bendiks-privod-startera_as_sd6029.html

 

[TheDurk]

See the 2nd picture to the right in the first link. There are splines (thread like) on the pinion gear shaft.

Starters | DENSO Auto Parts

https://starterok.com/bendiks-privod-startera_as_sd6029.html

Exactly. I believe that is technically a screw thread, just a very coarse one on a fine shaft.