Road Force Balance Question

BCMUSA

BCMUSA

New member
Hello all.

So for those that haven't been following my threads, I have been having steering wheel vibrations and wobble, and alignment problems with my new T4R.

I recently took it in to Toyota, they had my vehicle for 4 days to figure out alignment and balancing.

They got it done after the 4th day. Alignment seems fixed, wobble seems gone for the most part, but I still have vibration in the steering wheel. Feels like im holding an eletric toothbrush.

They did a RFB on all 4 tires and the lowest they were able to get my tires was 15. The others are 17, 22, and 24. They put the two lowest ones in the front.

They told me they tried to get them lower but they couldn't. Said the tires are brand new and sometimes it takes a few months of driving for them to wear in before they can balance them properly and hopefully bring the numbers down.

Does this make sense? Tires are brand new P rated, Cooper AT3 4S, stock size.

I just can't see how they weren't able to lower these down more. At least two of the rims, have two rows of balancing weights on them.

Thanks for any feedback.
 
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BCMUSA said:
Hello all.

So for those that haven't been following my threads, I have been having steering wheel vibrations and wobble, and alignment problems with my new T4R.

I recently took it in to Toyota, they had my vehicle for 4 days to figure out alignment and balancing.

They got it done after the 4th day. Alignment seems fixed, wobble seems gone for the most part, but I still have vibration in the steering wheel. Feels like im holding an eletric toothbrush.

They did a RFB on all 4 tires and the lowest they were able to get my tires was 15. The others are 17, 22, and 24. They put the two lowest ones in the front.

They told me they tried to get them lower but they couldn't. Said the tires are brand new and sometimes it takes a few months of driving for them to wear in before they can balance them properly and hopefully bring the numbers down.

Does this make sense? Tires are brand new P rated, Cooper AT3 4S, stock size.

I just can't see how they weren't able to lower these down more. At least two of the rims, have two rows of balancing weights on them.

Thanks for any feedback.
Click to expand...

Several threads on this topic.... but here is what I know.

19 TRD ORP swapped OR wheels with TRD wheels and General Grabber ATX P. Vibrations are there for me as well and has been almost 2 months of going back and forth to Discount Tire. Roadforce for front ones is 6 or less and back ones are 17 and 18. The last option I am going to try is to find a tire shop that can use the Haweka adapter for lug-centric wheels.

Really wish Toyota would do away with lug-centric and go to hub-centric wheels, will help so many 4runner owners. But I am not an Engineer so don't know why they use this setup.
 
mteolus said:
So no vibrations with the stock tires but now vibrations with the new tires? Defective tires?
Click to expand...

Happened with Stock tires also.

For whatever reason, they're having a hard time balancing these and are saying after they break in, it'll be easier to balance.

Any one know if this makes sense?
 
All of those road force measurements seem high. Try to get the new tires replaced until you get ones that have 12lbs of road force or less. That seemed to have worked for my Tacoma.
 
BCMUSA said:
... Tires are brand new P rated, Cooper AT3 4S, stock size...

Thanks for any feedback.
Click to expand...

I had a similar problem.
But my stock tires were ok. Actually balanced perfectly. I had no vibration at all. Then I got the exact same Cooper tires and they balanced ok. Then I went on an 800 mile road trip. From the very first day I felt a vibration in my hands on the steering wheel at all speeds and the frequency tracked the speed. Not a wobble as if the front tires were out of balance. I determined that it was the tread pattern of the tires. They were not loud on the pavement, but the tread spacing, tire compound, air pressure, whatever, caused a low amplitude vibration that I sensed.

I wasn’t going to monkey around with experimenting with different pressure or rebalancing etc. I went back to the tire shop and swapped them for new Michelin LTX AT2s. (Had to pay more $). The tread pattern is not as aggressive with smaller spacings, pretty quiet on pavement, and they work well in the dirt.
And no more steering wheel vibrations!
 
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I personally from many years ago as a wanna be racer and hobbyist would take all 4 wheels and deflate and break the bead then 180 the tire on the rim and re balance. A lot of the time believe it or not that would take care of it.
 
Arnezie said:
I personally from many years ago as a wanna be racer and hobbyist would take all 4 wheels and deflate and break the bead then 180 the tire on the rim and re balance. A lot of the time believe it or not that would take care of it.
Click to expand...

That will absolutely make a huge difference sometimes!

I'd say OP issues are with the tires. My original Nittos started getting pretty bad after the 40K mark. Just installed GY 285 Duratracs and they are completely smooth. OP this may sound off, but have you tried balancing them with a non-roadforce machine? A buddy of mine that has been doing tires for a long time told me that sometimes roadforce is not the way to go on larger more aggressive tires.
 
Bayou_Pro said:
That will absolutely make a huge difference sometimes!

I'd say OP issues are with the tires. My original Nittos started getting pretty bad after the 40K mark. Just installed GY 285 Duratracs and they are completely smooth. OP this may sound off, but have you tried balancing them with a non-roadforce machine? A buddy of mine that has been doing tires for a long time told me that sometimes roadforce is not the way to go on larger more aggressive tires.
Click to expand...
Stock tires were doing the same thing.

I think they honestly don't know how to balance tires.

At first they told me they got them all under 10, then a day later they said their machine was calibrated and said they couldn't go lower than 15.
 
BCMUSA said:
Then why the need for the Haweka adapter?

I am confused. I thought our rims are lug centric?
Click to expand...

TRD Off Road/Trail Edition 4runner wheels are definitely hubcentric.

If I remember correctly, TRD Pro wheels are not.

I could be totally wrong here though.
 
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Not sure if this helps, but I recently swapped over to 185/70 BF Goodrich KO2's on my stock trail wheels. I had discount tire take care of the install. 3 of the tires balanced out fine, but one tire took a ridiculous amount of weight to get close to "balanced". They said the problem was the load rating on the tires(load rated E), however that didn't make sense to me because then all 4 tires should've been having issues instead of just 1. I went on a 2,000 mile road trip the following week and I would get steering shake between 55-63 mph ONLY. Its been almost 6 months now with the same tires, and I can confirm that they have somewhat "broken in" and I now have Zero steering shake. Anyways, not saying your problem is this or that, just more food for your thought.
 
BCMUSA said:
Then why the need for the Haweka adapter?

I am confused. I thought our rims are lug centric?
Click to expand...

they are hub centric, go look at your lug nuts - they are normal flat washer style nuts

the haweka adapter has nothing to do with lug centric or hub centric, a centering cone is still used. the purpose of the haweka adapter is to provide even pressure to the wheel to make sure it is on the cone correctly. the cone is still doing the centering, the adapter just helps make sure it is correct and consistent. it is not a lug-centering tool. if the wheel isn't perfectly centered on the balancing cone your results will be off, the haweka adapter helps make sure it is centered on the cone by providing even pressure all around.

i'm think all toyota alloys are hub centric, but i don't know enough about the various wheels offered to make an absolute statement
 
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jhguth said:
they are hub centric, go look at your lug nuts - they are normal flat washer style nuts

the haweka adapter has nothing to do with lug centric or hub centric, a centering cone is still used. the purpose of the haweka adapter is to provide even pressure to the wheel to make sure it is on the cone correctly. it is not a lug-centering tool. if the wheel isn't perfectly centered on the balancing cone your results will be off, the haweka adapter helps make sure it is centered on the cone by providing even pressure all around.

i'm think all toyota alloys are hub centric, but i don't know enough about the various wheels offered to make an absolute statement
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Interesting.

Thank you
 
All Toyota Truck wheels need the flange plate adapter used on lug-centric wheels.

I see others have a different opinion. I don't want to argue. But Toyota literally says, a flange plate must be used. I guess it doesn't matter if the wheel is actually lug or hub centric. Just use the flange plate and it will eliminate the steering wheel wobble.
 

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that TSB explains what I am talking about, the wheel is hub centric and uses a centering cone and the purpose of the flange plate is to make sure it is mounted properly. the plate does not center the wheel, the cone does.
As the wing nut is tightened, equal pressure is automatically applied to each stud forcing the wheel to perfectly mount on the balancer
Click to expand...
the purpose of the adapter is to evenly sit the wheel on the centering cone.

one of the directions is to verify that the cone sits on the "hub-centric portion of the wheel." the flange plate just makes sure everything sits evenly on the cone.

the technician should also do a centering check which is easy to do on the hunter and i assume other machines
 
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