Sanity check: alignment specs after lift

[tpirman]

Was hoping to get some feedback on my recent lift and alignment.

The details are that I had Toytec adjustables installed on the front and then had an alignment. The specs are the first pic below. The truck drove perfectly after that. It was really stable and the steering was more stiff than ever, just like I like it to be. The steering was very consistent throughout the whole turn of the wheel. But there was too much rake for my taste so I took it back and had it adjusted up about 2 inches and then had another alignment, specs in the second pic.

I asked them to set the cast to +4 again on the second alignment, but the alignment guy (who I trust and has done all my good alignments in the past) said that there would be more tire wear than he would like if he went to +4 after the extra 2 inches of lift. Is this true?

My problem is this: the truck still tracks straight and is stable, but the steering feels looser now and when turning the feedback is not as consistent as before, meaning as I turn tighter and tighter it feels a bit looser at the end. It also feels like there is more play in the steering wheel and the steering wheel moves a bit more when I hit bumps.

My questions are: is this just to be expected with the extra lift, or should I be able to get back that old stable and stiff feel with a proper (better?) alignment? Am I am expecting too much, or is this just the way it goes when you change the geometry with a lift?

I appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

 

[thebwlife]

First - what year is your 4Runner? Do you have aftermarket UCAs?

Second - tell him to set it to 4* - that shouldn't effect tire wear, caster shouldn't, but the other spec could. If by moving to 4* he couldn't get the other adjustments in spec then yes it could cause tire wear.

But honestly you have 4.2 on one and 3.75 on the other. Try to get both a little closer to 4 or 4.2 - but a full half degree seems a bit excessive of a gap to me if you have aftermarket UCAs.

 

[tpirman]

First - do you have aftermarket UCAs?

Second - tell him to set it to 4* - that shouldn't effect tire wear, caster shouldn't, but the other spec could. If by moving to 4* he couldn't get the other adjustments in spec then yes it could cause tire wear.

But honestly you have 4.2 on one and 3.75 on the other. Try to get both a little closer to 4 or 4.2 - but a full half degree seems a bit excessive of a gap to me if you have aftermarket UCAs.

Ahh, forgot to add that key bit of info: yes, I have LR UCAs. I thought that gap between L and R was bad too. I might take it back and have a discussion.

I gather from your comments that I should be able to get that steering feeling back more inline with what I had before, even after the lift?

 

[thebwlife]

I gather from your comments that I should be able to get that steering feeling back more inline with what I had before, even after the lift?

From my research yes.

But remember raising the center of gravity is going to change the dynamics. So a stock height at 4* is going to feel different than lifted at 4*.

 

[1engineer]

Yes it will give you more stability by changing the caster but your steering "feel" might not come back. Why? By raising the front end 2" and keep the back lower you have effectively changed the weight distribution from front to rear slightly. Steering feel is highly subjective and every person has a different standard. One way to get it back is change air pressure in your tires. What you had before might be a bit high now, especially in the fronts. Try dropping it a few PSI, and before all the air pressure nazis come out of the woodwork I suggest they have a good argument against lowering tire pressure a few psi. Remember you have "unloaded" the front end slightly by raising it up. Adjust accordingly.

 

[Qjake]

With the LR upper arms the tech should have no issues getting caster above 5* nevermind 4* while keeping camber and toe in spec as long as the ball joints were installed in the correct position. You also say that you cranked up the coil overs another 2", iirc the toytec adjustables come set at 2.5", how much total lift did you get? Alignment may be the least of your worries if you've gone to high :boink:

 

[tpirman]

From my research yes.

But remember raising the center of gravity is going to change the dynamics. So a stock height at 4* is going to feel different than lifted at 4*.

Yes it will give you more stability by changing the caster but your steering "feel" might not come back. Why? By raising the front end 2" and keep the back lower you have effectively changed the weight distribution from front to rear slightly. Steering feel is highly subjective and every person has a different standard. One way to get it back is change air pressure in your tires. What you had before might be a bit high now, especially in the fronts. Try dropping it a few PSI, and before all the air pressure nazis come out of the woodwork I suggest they have a good argument against lowering tire pressure a few psi. Remember you have "unloaded" the front end slightly by raising it up. Adjust accordingly.

Ahh, great points and things I had forgotten to think about and try. Amazing what a couple inches can do (that's what she said). I was even considering lowering it just a bit and having the alignment done yet again, but I am afraid they'll look at me like am crazy. Thank you guys a ton, all great feedback and food for thought.

 

[tpirman]

With the LR upper arms the tech should have no issues getting caster above 5* nevermind 4* while keeping camber and toe in spec as long as the ball joints were installed in the correct position. You also say that you cranked up the coil overs another 2", iirc the toytec adjustables come set at 2.5", how much total lift did you get? Alignment may be the least of your worries if you've gone to high :boink:

I think you are right, I think he could get the caster set much higher, but possibly not at the risk of tire wear from other parameters or sacrifice of other specs. I already had the 5100s so the Toytecs were not adjusted at all because they weren't built yet. I don't believe I am over lifted at this point as all I did was level it with the rear 895Es. I maybe got 2.5-3 inches over stock, but I am going to stop by the dealer at some point and confirm because I don't have my original measurements. 2.5-3 inches of lift isn't overdoing it with aftermarket UCAs, right?

 

[Qjake]

Just to add. My steering feels great, no floaty or loose feeling and self centers well. no reason yours should be any different.

 

[Qjake]

I think you are right, I think he could get the caster set much higher, but possibly not at the risk of tire wear from other parameters or sacrifice of other specs. I already had the 5100s so the Toytecs were not adjusted at all because they weren't built yet. I don't believe I am over lifted at this point as all I did was level it with the rear 895Es. I maybe got 2.5-3 inches over stock, but I am going to stop by the dealer at some point and confirm because I don't have my original measurements. 2.5-3 inches of lift isn't overdoing it with aftermarket UCAs, right?

Not at all!

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I don't know about the Toytecs, but Andres recommended not to crank their OLW kits past a certain amount of thread (even though you could easily do it for more lift) I assume there's a reason behind this and wonder if the additional 2" over Toytec's spec is a good idea?

That being said if the LR Upper ball joints are set to stock position you should be able to get them in spec, if not just consult the LR UCA chart to adjust the balljoints where you need them, though I easily got my OLW 2.5" (shock diameter not lift height, which is about 3") to stock settings with the stock LR setting (Logo facing out IIRC.)

 

[WLSchroder]

Steering Wheel Off Center

Along the same lines...I had my lift installed and had the alignment done. It felt a bet more floaty. But more importantly, the steering wheel was off center.

I had it realigned. Went out on a very mild trail and the steering wheel went off center again....Is there a collar that needs to be tightened better or something?

 

[Jeremy556]

Along the same lines...I had my lift installed and had the alignment done. It felt a bet more floaty. But more importantly, the steering wheel was off center.

I had it realigned. Went out on a very mild trail and the steering wheel went off center again....Is there a collar that needs to be tightened better or something?

The lock nuts on the outside TREs need to be tightened, but must be done on the alignment rack to center the steering wheel.

 

[WLSchroder]

That is what I thought. I was not happy with the shop that did the job. When they re-did it this last time they didn't do the Zero Point Calibration right. Had to have the dealer re-do it. So now I need to find a good shop that will do the entire job right

The lock nuts on the outside TREs need to be tightened, but must be done on the alignment rack to center the steering wheel.