SAS talk.......

[airdreams1]

first off let me start by saying I have done a bunch of searching. That said I am still somewhat confused.

I have an 89 1st Gen with the 3.0 V6. I have old man emu 3 inch lift rear springs. I do not want to go any taller than it is now. that's because it's already hard enough for me to get into.

The V6 causes the first point of confusion. I have read many times that you must do an oil pan conversion with the t100 2 wheel drive pan and pickup tube.... then on other posts I read that it is not necessary at all. so my question is do I or do I not need to do it and I need answers from people that have actually done SAS swap with 3.0 V6.

Secondly I am not sure what leaf springs I should be using on the front. I have old man emu 3 inch lift springs on the rear... so do I use stock rear leaf springs up front? do I use old man emu front leaf springs for an 85 or older? or do I use something else in the rear and move the old man he moves to the front? again I cannot find any specific answers due to the fact that most of you guys want to lift 5 inches or more. And again I want to stay about the same height I am now. Don't want it any higher!

the third question I have for the moment is probably the very last step. Butt how or where do I find a long slip drive shaft? Is that something that I can easily have built at most any Drive shaft shop? And yes I need one that is balanced so I can use it on the street. so I can't just make it myself and hope for the best.

I'm pretty sure I'll have more questions as I continue to Source the parts and and get closer to doing the actual swap..... probably even forgot a question or two.

 

[KidVermicious]

Stock rears up front and some longer shackles should get right into the 3" lift range. Everything is different each time when you're piecing together your own lift so you'll probably have to play with it a little to dial it in.

Most any drive train shop can build you a long slip shaft, but be prepared to shit yourself when they hand you the bill because they all hate working with the Toyota metric tube. If you won't be using 4WD at highway speeds, consider building your own front shaft out of square tube.

I'm no help on the issue of the 3.0 oil pan, but I can tell you the oil pan on 22RE IFS trucks hangs down in all the wrong places for a solid axle. If you're trying to keep it low, you'll want to find a solution for that for sure. I wouldn't use the pan you have.

 

[airdreams1]

Daily drive the truck. this last weekend I used it to go north into the mountains and had to use for high. about the only way to keep the truck going straight. I mean I could probably build something out of square tube for temporary use but at some point would want one that I could use for Highway use...

some of the information I read about the oil pan was that it was only an issue if you use High steer. Others said it wasn't an issue if you push the front axle forward three quarters of an inch. and even if you said it did not matter either way it did not hit.

I will not be beating the living $#¡+ out of my 4runner, just simple trails. Just don't want to mess with rebuilding the entire IFS. Supposedly the straight axle is a little bit more durable And will last longer. Especially considering I have to have the front end lift it which causes extra where to the ball joints, CV joint, etc. plus to have a little extra capability would be nice considering I don't want to be getting stuck while out camping with my daughter. not like I'll be camping with a group of people and have extra people to help get out if I get stuck for some reason.

I just got the front axle, trail gear frame hanger & shock hoops. the guy did give me some leaf springs to go with it but I believe they are 3rd gen or something. Eye to Eye, they are about 48 inches long. also a set of front Springs? Too. they are about 45 inches long..... so I don't know if either of those would work. I do. I do still have stock rear leaf springs but they were really flat.
I plan on doing at least a front Locker. already have a good lightly- used 8" third member with the 456 gears. So really all I need to do is get locker & a set of 456 gears for the other axel.

 

[KidVermicious]

some of the information I read about the oil pan was that it was only an issue if you use High steer. Others said it wasn't an issue if you push the front axle forward three quarters of an inch. and even if you said it did not matter either way it did not hit.

Cool. Farther forward gives you a better approach angle. What axle are you planning to use? You'll probably want crossover steering, and most of the crossover steer kits (for the Toyota 8" front at least) use high steer. If you think it'll work, find your springs and get that axle set up and worry about the oil pan after you see how the axle sits at full bump. Maybe you'll get lucky.

 

[v_man]

I went with 3" Trailgear springs in the front, I do believe they are 48" long. I broke one doing a hard U-turn on pavement once but other than that they have worked out well...

While you are trimming and shaving all the IFS stuff off the frame rails I would consider adding some reinforcement plates to the frame rails.

If you end up going with big tires you start putting a lot of stress on the area of the frame near the steering box. I Broke my frame eventually which needed needed more reinforcement

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt34/vlopez02/IMG_4667_zpsmr0hv6cy.jpg

Lastly I would add some gussets from your shock hoops to the frame as they are likely to break at some point too, as mine did

I guess my point is that even if you don't wheel your SAS truck hard you still need to be prepared for breakage. Your adding stresses and hanging parts, like shackle hangers, off a frame that was designed for an IFS , just my .02 cents .

Good Luck , SAS 'Runners are bada$$...

 

[v_man]

Forgot to mention I would spend the money and get a front drive shaft built to your needs, square shafts are impossible to balance and they are useless after what speed, 15-20 mph? I often hit speeds of 50mph in 4hi if conditions warrant it , very minimal vibration....

 

[airdreams1]

I'm kinda like an engineer. I tend to overthink and over build things... LOL. so I planned on adding extra bracing to the shock Hoops because they looked like a weak point.

I'm not positive what year the axle is I have. there is a long press on the bottom that goes all the way over to the spring. I will try to get some pictures uploaded to Photobucket and post them here.

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

if you want it low go with the rears up front, how ever since the ifs frames dont have the same amount of arch in them as the solid axle frames we really need 4" of lift, unless you notch the frame. i found the threads on pirate useful for all my research.

and also look at the lowrange offroad spring hanger. its what i got for mine and it adds more surface area to attach it to the frame, it also doesnt add as much lift as say a trailgear hanger does so it helps keep it low.

 

[kfitz77555]

wait, why isnt the IFS good enough again

 

[KidVermicious]

wait, why isnt the IFS good enough again

It is, for 99.99% of the time. But I've given up on that crusade.

 

[Dropzone]

It is, for 99.99% of the time. But I've given up on that crusade.

only reason i am doing a SAS on my 94 is that I have all the stuff (suspension, axles etc) from my 81. Doing it on a tight budget, saves me $$$ on gears etc
That being said I would go Long Travel up front if money was not so tight.

axle ID
Toyota Mini Truck Front Axle Identification
79-80 no gusset
81-83 short gusset (to u-bolts)
84-85 long gusset (past u-bolts)

As far as swapping the oil pan for high steer, just go that route, no sense re-inventing the wheel. Converting to High steer was the best upgrade I ever did on my 81.

for your front spring hanger- if you go with a Trail-Gear style hanger- that automatically adds 1.5" or so to your lift. Consider a low profile hanger such as the one Low Range Off road sells
After using the T-G hanger on my 1st build I am going with the Low Range Hanger. It will be about 3/4"-1" lower than the T-G


Like V-Man I ended up with a cracked frame using the T-G hanger due to stress, my damage fortunately wasn't as severe as his. My brace worked pretty good. I retired the project because after 8 years it was just beat and I wanted a newer project



I would keep it IFS and just beef it

which ever hanger so go with, TACK it first! Set the truck down with the full weight of the truck on the springs, jump on it to get it down to ride height so your shackle angle isn't fubar. too many people fully weld the hanger and have a major headache trying to correct it because their shackles are hitting the body mount or is too far forward

 

[ntsqd]

I did cross-over steering on a LA 22R truck that was NOT high steer. Drag-link on top of the leafs for a shallow angle hopefully resulting in low bump-steer, tie-rod under them. After several weeks of cycling the front suspension in the evenings and weekends and working really, really hard to keep the drag-link out of the oil pan I still managed to hit it about 8 months after the work was finished. The IFS frame looks to have less arch in the rails in the region of where the drag-link passes thru.

Based on all of my 2 decades of experience with that truck I'd use FJ/FZJ-80 radius arms and coil springs up front. Pass on the leaf springs!

BTW, flog on a LA hard enough and you beat divots into the lower trunnion bearings. I had to replace them 3 times in the time between when I started chasing desert racers and when I sold the truck (about 13 years or so).

 

[Hyde802]

wait, why isnt the IFS good enough again

IFS is great until your over a 35" tire and a locker. Then parts go bang.

The IFS frame looks to have less arch in the rails in the region of where the drag-link passes thru.

Thats why the ifs frames are the less desired option, really hard to get it low


Little late to this thread. But if you have the axle 3ish inches forward from stock, it should clear the pan.

If you bought the off the shelf hangers, and ran very low lift RUFS (read, 2-3" uptravel, not ideal bumpy for road driving) youll end up with about 3 inches of lift. The reason "everyone wants to lift it 5 inches" is a comfy road ride. My current rufs are whouped. I plan on getting some OME cs009r springs very soon, which should give me about 4" total lift. You could do chevy 63s in the rear and move your current springs up front.

The ifs is pretty durable for mild wheeling. Go look up AxleIke s old runner build, he did great things with his ifs.

 

[Dropzone]

I did cross-over steering on a LA 22R truck that was NOT high steer. Drag-link on top of the leafs for a shallow angle hopefully resulting in low bump-steer, tie-rod under them. After several weeks of cycling the front suspension in the evenings and weekends and working really, really hard to keep the drag-link out of the oil pan I still managed to hit it about 8 months after the work was finished. The IFS frame looks to have less arch in the rails in the region of where the drag-link passes thru.

Based on all of my 2 decades of experience with that truck I'd use FJ/FZJ-80 radius arms and coil springs up front. Pass on the leaf springs!

BTW, flog on a LA hard enough and you beat divots into the lower trunnion bearings. I had to replace them 3 times in the time between when I started chasing desert racers and when I sold the truck (about 13 years or so).

Yes that is a route he can go however even with the upper tie rod like you show he would still have clearance issues on his V6 oil pan.
Several kits are out there to eliminate issues with the stock trunnion bearings. Any wheeling is hard on components

I wish I had a pic showing the difference between the front of a 79-85 SA frame and 86-95.5 IFS frame, the arch is definitely different

 

[ntsqd]

With the drag-link the way I show it I still hit the 22R oil pan at least once. Probably at high speed, I'm not sure when or where it happened. Luckily neither the Mar-Link drag-link nor the oil pan cared much. And that incident clearanced the pan such that it never hit again. If there is room in the pan to do so, I'm not above 'moving it' out of the way.

Without cutting all of the 2WD IFS stuff off my old '84 turbo truck it was hard to say for sure, but I *think* that the 2WD frame rails might be/are the same as the LA 4WD rails. An SAS conversion might be better off starting with a 2WD frame.

I wasn't complaining about having to replace the trunnion bearings, only pointing out that a LA isn't totally bullet-proof either. The modified - aftermarket trunnion bearings, at least at the time that I looked into them, required other alterations that I did not like. Those alterations might be/have been fine for pure rock-crawling, but I didn't like them for an Expo/Desert Race Chase truck. Details are now lost to the sands of time. And they may not apply any more.

I say do rear 63's regardless. They were part of one of the two best mods that I EVER made to that truck. Using WFO shackles & hangers and a stock set of GM 63's with one leaf removed I leveled the truck with std OME leaf fronts. Absolutely use Bils 7100's with 275/78 valving on the rear. Fronts can be the more common 255/70 valves, but the 63's have lower internal friction and really need a little bit more damping.

 

[airdreams1]

wait, why isnt the IFS good enough again

The reason I want to swap out to the solid front axle is because every single piece of my ifs needs to be rebuilt. (Ball joints, tie rod ends, idler arm, pitman arm, a-arm bushings, shocks are too short, even stuff in the Front differential.) Literally everything!
and now that it has been lifted 3 inches in the front it is causing excess where to the ball joints, CV joints, etc..... so even if I go about replacing all of it it will just wear back out again quickly. not to mention it now rides extremely stiff anyways......

 

[Dropzone]

The reason I want to swap out to the solid front axle is because every single piece of my ifs needs to be rebuilt.

keep in mind just about any used TOyota mini truck axle you find is gonna need bearings, seals etc. sort of puts you in the same boat
SA Toys also ride rough

 

[ajordan1975]

the oil pan issue is mostly w/ the 3.4 not the 3.0.
they never offered a 3.0 in a T100.
not 100%, but i'm pretty sure the 3.0 oil pan will be fine.
good luck w/ the build!

:girl:

 

[KidVermicious]

the oil pan issue is mostly w/ the 3.4 not the 3.0.
they never offered a 3.0 in a T100.

Are you 100% on that? I'm pretty sure that for the first couple years, the 3.0 was ALL you could get in the T100.

 

[airdreams1]

keep in mind just about any used TOyota mini truck axle you find is gonna need bearings, seals etc. sort of puts you in the same boat
SA Toys also ride rough

Yeah I assume it's probably going to need rebuilt. But in the long run food need rebuilt less often than a lifted IFS. I say that because the old man emu Springs I have on the rear have lifted this thing nearly five inches not free like they say. So to try to make the front mat I have to have the front torsion bars cranked nearly to the maximum plus the ball joint spacers. That all being said I cannot quite get a perfect alignment out of it either.

And like I said it now it rides really stiff in the front end now. So what's the difference if I use front leaf spring/solid axle. Going to be a similar ride if not slightly better then fully crank torsion bars.

Are you 100% on that? I'm pretty sure that for the first couple years, the 3.0 was ALL you could get in the T100.

Pretty sure you're correct. I came across a 2 wheel drive T100 that had the 3.0 in it. But I did not even think at that time that I was going to do a solid axel swap! So therefore I did not even realize that it would have had the oil pan and pick up to I would need in the future. hadn't even researched it at some point so didn't even know to consider it. only reason I even looked at it was because some guy asked me to help him lift the hood off of it because he needed it for his truck but couldn't quite get it off by himself without risking damaging it.