snow driving

[rvcahawaii808]

i know this question must have been asked a million times but i have searched and i get conflicting answers usually. i have an 04 limited 4x4 with what i think is a center diff lock...button on left side of steering wheel..

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looks kinda like that.

ive seen some people say to lock it while on snow...others say its only good for doing doughnuts. im from hawaii going to school in oregon...so i dont have too much snow driving experience. i was just going to put it into 4H once the road got really snowy or once i start to feel my back end slip.

any suggestions?

 

[Nuke]

Although cryptic, the OM has some barely useful info on winter driving and use of the 4WD system.

My suggestion is to practice in a snow covered, LARGE parking lot with few light poles and NO concrete whatever-those-things-are-that-keep-you-from-the-guy-in-front-of-you-spot. I'll only lock the center diff for straight line driving and drop into 4L where I need all the power I can muster (like pulling a tree stump). Also, I won't kick 4WD in until I really feel like I'm having major difficulty. Too many folks kick 4WD in at the drop of the first flake. These are the people to watch out for because they have no feel for how to control their car on their own, relying solely on the 4WD system. BIG mistake...

 

[Axis]

Last winter in here in Toronto one of the news stations did a study of collisions during the first big storm and found MOST involved SUV's. This was completely unscientific and anecdotal, however it does at least indicate SUV drivers are probably a bit too confident in their vehicle's ability to stay on the road in snow.

A buddy of mine bought some fancy 4 wheel drive BMW (car, not SUV) a couple of years ago. He wrapped it around a pole during the first snow of the year. He was under the impression 4WD meant "stick to the road like glue in any conditions":nono:

To answer your question, personally I do turn on 4WD in snowy conditions, but only lock the centre dif when its neccesary, like ascending a steep hill slowly and the tires spin, and this is mainly to turn off the VSC. Other than that I would say its probably more dangerous to lock centre dif because it will turn off VSC.

 

[gptoy96]

You don't need to lock your center diff unless you're actually wheeling or getting out of something. For everyday driving around in snow etc. just 4H is what you want. Once you engage the center diff a person has to start worrying about hitting dry patches etc. that could cause binding and potential damage.

You were on the right track with your thoughts already.

 

[M1911]

I have driven in snow with the diff locked and with the diff unlocked. I recommend that you leave the diff unlocked, especially if you are inexperienced in snow.

First, you are very unlikely to need the diff locked when driving on snow-covered streets. Second, when you lock the diff, it turns off ESP (electronic spin protection), which helps keep you from spinning out. Third, when you do lock the center diff, I have found that my '03 4Runner is very tail happy. I grew up in Chicago driving RWD cars, went to school in central NY, and live in Boston, so I'm comfortable with a tail-happy car in the snow, but if you are new to driving in snow that would probably be a bad idea.

Finally, as others have mentioned, a good 4WD or AWD system makes it very easy to get overconfident in the snow. You hit the gas from a stop and the truck just goes, with very little slipping. The problem is that 4WD/AWD does nothing to help you turn or stop. In contrast, back in the day, our 2WD cars with a big V8 up front, no weight out back, and no traction control (or ABS) always reminded us just how slippery it was in the snow. With those cars, starting up from a stop almost always resulted in your rear tires slipping, so the car was always reminding you just how slippery it is.

Whenever I am driving in snow, as soon as I set out, I check that there is no one behind me, get up to 20-30 mph on a straight section and slam on the brakes. That shows me just how slippery it is and how much distance I need to brake.

If you get a lot of snow where you live now, I suggest that you consider a set of 4 snow tires. All season tires suck in the snow, particularly after 10,000 miles or so.

 

[rvcahawaii808]

alright i didnt think locking the center diff would be a good idea. basically all you can do is have a light foot and dont be re****ed it seems. im running BFG A/T right now but they have around 45-50k miles on them. not sure what im going to get next...

 

[off-road runner]

NO concrete whatever-those-things-are-that-keep-you-from-the-guy-in-front-of-you-spot.



I've heard them called "Jersey Barriers" often.

 

[TexasAlbertaSteve]

What about for a Trail Edition

Hi all new here and thinking of getting a trail because about 5-10% of time I drive on dirt or mud logging roads in Alberta


But I am from Texas and not a good snow driver.

I had a jeep, and that was easy kick it into snow mode.

For trail I understand it is part time 4wd. If I put it into 4 hi and drive on patchy snowy roads is that going to tear it up because it is like 4wd all with centre diff?

Thinking maybe this may not be right for me as I am the twitchy driver and not super excited about being in 2wd drive rear but scared to put into 4 hi for fear of tearing up the transfer case being in 4hi. Sometimes I am driving 2-3 hours on patchy snow roads (in and out of valleys) and would prefer not to have to constantly shift from 2wd to 4hi? Sorry to resurrect thread but this was the best thread I could find in search.

Appreciate any answers as I have to choose in a few weeks for a new vehicle since my jeep was totalled by flood.

I always run winter studded in winter.

Thanks in advance

 

[collierunner]

Hi all new here and thinking of getting a trail because about 5-10% of time I drive on dirt or mud logging roads in Alberta

You can drive in 4 hi all day long: wet, dry, snow, volcanic apocalypses, doesn't matter (think of it more like a subaru in 4hi).

Now lock the center differential and you'll cause binding if you're not in a low traction situation.

You have the added fun of a locking rear as well with that trail edition (Some of us are a little jealous). This is great for donuts and getting out of tough spots.

Hope that helps. (Why are you asking about snow in July anyways?) Edit: Sorry didn't see the looking at buying. Also are you looking at a 2008-2009 tail edition or the current Gen? You might want to ask the 5th gen side if you're looking at a newer 4runner.

 

[RonJR]

All good advice above, telling you keep the center (and rear if you have it) diff unlocked when driving on snow unless you need the extra traction to get out of a tough spot.

If you lock the center diff, at least one wheel will have to slip when you go around a corner, because the front wheels travel further than the rears. You don't want that. Slipping wheels lose all lateral control and cause the front end to plow straight ahead and/or the rear end to slide out. That's bad. With the center diff unlocked, all 4 wheels can go their own speed regardless of conditions, minimizing slipping and maximizing control. Plus, as has been said, locking the center diff turns off VSC (vehicle stability control). Especially if you're inexperienced on slick roads, you don't want to do that.

A modern 4runner has a lot of features to help you on slick roads. Full time 4wd, ABS, VSC, etc. Nothing can substitute for practice (in a safe place), good judgement, experience, and above all caution.

 

[TexasAlbertaSteve]

Thanks guys, but I thought the trail editions at least the 5th gen, maybe I need to post over there but not at my 10 posts yet) don't have a centre diff only a rear diff locker? Is the rear diff the same as centre diff lock? I didn't see a centre diff lock when o was testing driving it.

Thanks,

Steven

 

[collierunner]

If your after a new 5th gen and want to leave in 4wd all day long you'll need the limited trim. With the sr5 and te you'll have to switch in and out as you reach dry pavement. Another option would be a entry or mid level package gx460. They can be lifted.

Remember when the 5th gen was introduced in 2010 we recovering from a global recession. Toyota is infamous with reducing luxuries and cost (why the 5th gen lacks a more costly torsen center differential in low grade package) when a vehicle is introduced during recession years and making overly complex(bit of an over statement and luxurious cars during boom year. They also do this when currency exchange rates hurt them.

PS:
Read this about the 5th gen for more info in their 4wd setup: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/133871-using-part-time-4wd-dry-pavement-te-sr5.html

 

[TexasAlbertaSteve]

Thank you very much. That post helped a lot. I am thinking the 5th gen are not for me. The limited is probably what I need for snow and ice , not a good enough driver for 2wd rear for up here in Alberta, but the front end with lower clearance means it will get tore-up on logging roads.

I am guessing even with the spectre of 9-speed transmission issues the only vehicle that can fit all my needs in one vehicle is a jeep Cherokee or grand Cherokee with auto 4wd and clearance and a rear diff lock for the tricky logging roads.

Very sad now because I was really pumped about a 4 runner, but I could see myself putting it into 4hi in the snow and taking a turn and over steering and losing control

Of course in the jeep I could just end up having the tranny screw up and lose power going 65 down highway 43 up a hill.

But appreciate how kind and informative this forum has been to me. Lots of searches.

Don't know what to get now, since my car was flooded and need new wheels in a week or two after rental runs out.

Thanks,

 

[Bob22222]

One more vote for:
Leave it unlocked unless you are stuck or have a desire to put yourself in a situation so extreme (no, not just a snowy road) that you know you'll be stuck without it. Not being a crawler guy that's one i like to avoid. Exercise the lock regulator monthly in a straight forward driving attitude ( no turning) to keep it from getting sticky is a good thing.
4 wheel drive in snow? Isn't that a no brainier? But to clarify: the center diff'spurpose is to allow you to use 4WD in all conditions.
As far as driving In snow great not just good tires are key. Slow and steady upon acceleration and deceleration. Try to avoid anything that will lead to sudden braking or sudden corrections (speed, following distance, road conditions, the guys in you rear view mirror, ect. Be super aware that there might and often is ice beneath the snow which makes the traction thing obviously much worse. While the parking lot thing can help if you unpracticed in winter weather condition it best to be aware of the traction limits of the real time conditions before you find out they are worse than you thought. When it's particularly foul i like to test traction in some safe area (No cars moving or parked around. No nearby walls, curbs, trees, people, drop offs to slide into, ect). Test traction by giving it a little gas, then maybe decelerate suddenly, if things feel cool lightly tapping the brakes should give you a better feel for the conditions you are in.I can remember about 40 years ago when I first moved to snow county from California the first time I incountered glare ice (aka black ice) I thought I'd be Ok if I went slow. At about 2 mph I tapped the brakes on my 78 RWD Celica equipped with regular highway tires. I went into a slow slide for about 70 yards stopping only when into a snow bank.
All in all I'd say driving in snow and ice is much like pulling a trailer. Scary at first. Then you get use to it. But don't get too comfortable with either. Remember there is good reason they both were scary at first.
Again tires are key. I like: Michelins, General AT2s, and Nokians. But
I'm sure there are other great choices out there. And if you really want traction get those Generals studded or go for chains (rear only on a 4th gen)in extreme conditions,

 

[collierunner]

The limited still has ride height control and doesn't loose that much ground clearance. Just need to get rid of the street tires they come with. I'd take one for a spin just to see. (according to a couple of websites the limited still has 9in of ground clearance and the GC is 8.6)

I also don't think you'll end off the road with the TE either (you see tons of them in snow country). It's just more excessive turning might cause binding, like an older 4wd (I don't own a 5th gen and never driven one other than my brothers limited).

Personally I'd would want 4runner with the solid rear axle if your going over ruff terrain daily. But if its nice graded gravel road with washboard the independent rear suspension of the GC might make ride nicer.

If I had the money I'd look at the entry level lexus GX460. It a 4runner with a v8.

 

[Bossman]

I am thinking the 5th gen are not for me. The limited is probably what I need for snow and ice , not a good enough driver for 2wd rear for up here in Alberta, but the front end with lower clearance means it will get tore-up on logging roads.

The 4th Gen 4Runners had a ground clearance of 9.1 inches, an approach angle of 30 degrees and a departure angle of 26 degrees.

The 5th Gen 4Runners have a ground clearance of 9.6 inches, an approach angle of 25 degrees and a departure angle of 24 degrees. (approach and departure angles are better in the Trail edition package at 33 and 26).

My 03 Limited (full-time) 4WD was amazing in the snow and ice on just Michelin LTX M/S2 tires. Kept it in 4Hi for the whole winter. Never got stuck, not much wheel slipping unless I has too heavy on the gas.

Looking forward to seeing what my new-to-me 2011 Limited 4WD will do this winter.