SR5 vs Trail

[sf jakey]

Can somebody help me here. I have searched, read Toyota's website etc. My use for this vehicle will be daily driver(25k miles per year), snow vehicle(lots of Tahoe time in the winter), and summer off road excursions on 4wd roads which do require 4lo, boulder crawling etc, just not of the Rubicon/Fordyce level. Mostly to reach remote lakes and streams for flyfishing, and some fun family day trips into the backcountry.
All things being equal, I would buy the Trail Premium, but they are impossible to find (only 3 show up in Ca currently) and dealers are getting damn near msrp because of this. I also have concerns about winter snow driving. 4wd with the limited slip would probably be more advantageous over the locker in snow conditions. Crawl control is neat, but really I doubt I would use it, I've driven off road for years without it and without issue. Terrain select, I don't even know what it does, so I doubt that is necessary either. KDSS is very desirable, but at the factory$$$, plus the additional cost dealers are putting on these vehicles, I could put in a pretty nice aftermarket suspension which would in all likelihood perform better, and be more reliable.
Which leads me to this revelation. I can buy a SR5 premium for substantially less $$, still have the softex seats, entune system, moonroof etc etc. and have quite a bit of money left to modify the suspension and even add an ARB locker if necessary. At this point, I'd have a more capable vehicle, less electronic gadgetry, and come out ahead $$$ wise. In fact, I may even find that the factory limited slip meets my needs off road.
So what am I missing here? I know I won't get the hood scoop, and I won't have the resale value, but what else? What are the limitations of the factory limited slip? What about ATRAC, is it actually a huge benefit worth paying for?
I could order a Trail Premium, but the dealer says they have to wait for Toyota to give them an allotment. That could be up to 90 days, which puts me well into summer.
Thanks, I know it has been covered before, but I spent hours here reading yesterday and did not find my answers.

 

[1engineer]

...
All things being equal, I would buy the Trail Premium, but they are impossible to find (only 3 show up in Ca currently) and dealers are getting damn near msrp because of this. I also have concerns about winter snow driving. 4wd with the limited slip would probably be more advantageous over the locker in snow conditions. Crawl control is neat, but really I doubt I would use it, I've driven off road for years without it and without issue. Terrain select, I don't even know what it does, so I doubt that is necessary either. KDSS is very desirable, but at the factory$$$, plus the additional cost dealers are putting on these vehicles, I could put in a pretty nice aftermarket suspension which would in all likelihood perform better, and be more reliable.
Which leads me to this revelation. I can buy a SR5 premium for substantially less $$, still have the softex seats, entune system, moonroof etc etc. and have quite a bit of money left to modify the suspension and even add an ARB locker if necessary. At this point, I'd have a more capable vehicle, less electronic gadgetry, and come out ahead $$$ wise. In fact, I may even find that the factory limited slip meets my needs off road.
So what am I missing here? I know I won't get the hood scoop, and I won't have the resale value, but what else? What are the limitations of the factory limited slip? What about ATRAC, is it actually a huge benefit worth paying for?
I could order a Trail Premium, but the dealer says they have to wait for Toyota to give them an allotment. That could be up to 90 days, which puts me well into summer.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the SR5. I had a 2011 model. It does great goes great etc.
I have no clue what the price difference is between the SR5p and the TEp but the big difference is KDSS and rear locker. KDSS is amazing on road. Can you get an aftermarket suspension to imitate it? Sure you can but that will be very expensive and you won't get the ability to "effectively" disconnect the swaybars (it doesn't really but it moves the pivot, which effectively disconnects them) and have you priced the air locker? Get what you want but you can't build the TE from a SR5 with the same dollars. Now, if you are going to go big then by all means get the SR5 and save money on the KDSS. Go get a King or high number Icon setup and have a blast. Again, I have had both and the KDSS, just for on road use, is worth it. Find one in Colorado, get a cheap plane ticket and go get it. #YOLO

 

[KCcarguy]

Buy the TE and be done with it The resale will make up for the price difference.

 

[mfregeau20]

Can somebody help me here. I have searched, read Toyota's website etc. My use for this vehicle will be daily driver(25k miles per year), snow vehicle(lots of Tahoe time in the winter), and summer off road excursions on 4wd roads which do require 4lo, boulder crawling etc, just not of the Rubicon/Fordyce level. Mostly to reach remote lakes and streams for flyfishing, and some fun family day trips into the backcountry.
All things being equal, I would buy the Trail Premium, but they are impossible to find (only 3 show up in Ca currently) and dealers are getting damn near msrp because of this. I also have concerns about winter snow driving. 4wd with the limited slip would probably be more advantageous over the locker in snow conditions. Crawl control is neat, but really I doubt I would use it, I've driven off road for years without it and without issue. Terrain select, I don't even know what it does, so I doubt that is necessary either. KDSS is very desirable, but at the factory$$$, plus the additional cost dealers are putting on these vehicles, I could put in a pretty nice aftermarket suspension which would in all likelihood perform better, and be more reliable.
Which leads me to this revelation. I can buy a SR5 premium for substantially less $$, still have the softex seats, entune system, moonroof etc etc. and have quite a bit of money left to modify the suspension and even add an ARB locker if necessary. At this point, I'd have a more capable vehicle, less electronic gadgetry, and come out ahead $$$ wise. In fact, I may even find that the factory limited slip meets my needs off road.
So what am I missing here? I know I won't get the hood scoop, and I won't have the resale value, but what else? What are the limitations of the factory limited slip? What about ATRAC, is it actually a huge benefit worth paying for?
I could order a Trail Premium, but the dealer says they have to wait for Toyota to give them an allotment. That could be up to 90 days, which puts me well into summer.
Thanks, I know it has been covered before, but I spent hours here reading yesterday and did not find my answers.

Honestly, I love my 2013 SR5 but if I were to do it all over again I would look for a Trail and get that if I could have. Not having ever test drove a Trail though ignorance is bliss and I love my 4R especially with my new Icon set up.

Just get what you want in your price range

 

[Ol'Baditude]

Buy the TE and be done with it The resale will make up for the price difference.

Good point. I can't believe what used Trails are going for up here. Mindboggling really.

OP, I bought an SR5 and I have been extremely happy with it off road, and after suspension and tire upgrades, I've been very happy with it on road too.
ATRAC is worth every penny and works very, very well to get you up and over obstacles where you would otherwise spin out.
Personally I would say if you have the extra cash right now, grab a trail with KDSS and a rear locker and you'll be happy you did. At the same time, I'm very happy I decided to get an SR5 and then upgrade over time as I saved funds to do so.

 

[clucking]

I just picked up my Trail Premium w/kdss this weekend here in Phoenix, and there are a bunch more of them in stock, with KDSS, around the valley here. My dealer was able to do a 'dealer swap' with a Tucson dealer for the color I (er, my wife) wanted, and I got it *well* under msrp. Call around the Phoenix dealerships, I bet you find what you want, and I bet your local dealers could get it shipped over.

 

[Askaltoy]

I was in the same predicament as you before I got my 2014 4Runner. I’m in the SF bay area like you and I really wanted the TP but I couldn’t find one and if I did, I couldn’t get any of the dealers to come down enough with their prices around the bay area. I ended up getting mine in San Diego. Because of the logistics to off road areas there, they have a lot more of Trail Edition selection in SoCal. Any many more dealers 48 vs 130+(LA +SD) and are more willing to negotiate. Ended up getting it below invoice. My plan was to hop a cheap flight to San Diego, a 10 min cab ride to the dealer and drive it back home. But of course the wife as a different plan. She wanted to come along to sightsee LA area since she haven’t been to SoCal. The plus side is I got to enjoy driving it around for a couple of days before heading back to the bay area. But that is another story.
As far as A-TRAC elockers and KDSS goes, there’s enough discussion on them around here and I really don’t know enough that I could add other than that I really like having them. It fits my needs for the overlanding adventures/trips I like to do. I haven’t taken on an off-road trip yet except at a SVRA to test the A-TRAC and elockers.
I thought I would chimed in my own experience since a couple of the members had mention about purchasing out of area.

 

[GRIMACE]

Thanks. I think you helped me out! I do a lot of highway driving during the summer. On road performance is a must.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the SR5. I had a 2011 model. It does great goes great etc.
I have no clue what the price difference is between the SR5p and the TEp but the big difference is KDSS and rear locker. KDSS is amazing on road. Can you get an aftermarket suspension to imitate it? Sure you can but that will be very expensive and you won't get the ability to "effectively" disconnect the swaybars (it doesn't really but it moves the pivot, which effectively disconnects them) and have you priced the air locker? Get what you want but you can't build the TE from a SR5 with the same dollars. Now, if you are going to go big then by all means get the SR5 and save money on the KDSS. Go get a King or high number Icon setup and have a blast. Again, I have had both and the KDSS, just for on road use, is worth it. Find one in Colorado, get a cheap plane ticket and go get it. #YOLO

 

[RickC5]

I test drove an SR5 and found it to be a VERY pleasant highway vehicle--Quiet, smooth and adequate power. That said, we ordered a TE simply because our 4Runner will see a lot of off-road use. We picked the regular TE over the Premium since neither one of us are fond of sticky seats in the summer when wearing shorts (what the heck IS softex anyway?). I also got the KDSS, as it is an amazing addition to the Trail, and is fully automatic--no buttons to push. The TE is also almost 3 inches taller than the SR5, which means there's a body lift there somewhere, or maybe it's because the roof rails are standard--don't yet know which. Those stock Dunlop tires will be gone within a day or two, replaced by BFG TA KOs.

Look up KDSS on Wikipedia as there's a great description of the system and how it works. I truly doubt you will find any sort of aftermarket suspension that will work better than KDSS. It's amazing!

 

[Stifler]

Did 1engineer just pound out YOLO on T4r.org? Lol

 

[Ryan1975]

Did 1engineer just pound out YOLO on T4r.org? Lol

 

[1engineer]

Did 1engineer just pound out YOLO on T4r.org? Lol

Yes. Yes I did. Best. Acronym. Ever. #YOLO

 

[BobsTrail]

I agree with all the pro Trail comments but I may be biased. The locker is not good for snow but will help in other off-road trips. The Trail has a slightly better approach angle than the SR5 or Limited and the front recovery hooks are easier to reach.

 

[AZrunner11]

Vote for Trail

I had a 2011 SR5 and now have a 12 Trail. I prefer and recommend the trail as the ride and handling is better. The SR5 has some nose dive when braking or at least it did in 2011. I only miss the heated leather seats and turn signals on the mirrors. Other than that I love, love, love the Pre '14 TE.

 

[derekp]

I love my '13 SR5p. I got into it from an '01 TRD Tacoma so I find the 4R extremely comfortable. My Tacoma took quite a bit out of you when towing or driving over ~75. When in the 4R, 75 feels like 45 in the Tacome. Not sure about towing yet (it has right at or just shy of the rating of the Tacoma).
I was unaware of the KDSS due to the admin people at our dealer (they aren't salesmen) so I don't know what I'm missing. I do know that the 4R is quite capable as it sits, after changing the tires. I wouldnt mind adding a locker later, but ATRACS works well.
If you are looking to save some money to build your ride later, go with the SR5. If you are hung up resale (not sure who buys a car just to sell it), get the TE. I bought my truck with the intent to keep for a decade so resale isn't an issue here. It sounds like you are on the fence about the trim level and could be happy with either. If you call around the state for TEp prices, why not ask about SR5p prices? But when it comes down to it, you have to drive them both and get the one you are comfortable in (and can afford).

 

[Ryan1975]

The locker is not good for snow

Wait, what?

 

[sf jakey]

Locker is good in deep snow trying to gain traction and forward progress. Limited slip allows traction to both rear wheels on a snow covered road, increasing traction and minimizing slip. With a locker, you have an open diff unless it is locked, which isn't advisable driving down a normal snow/ice covered road. It can induce a slide in a braking situation when you let off the throttle, and if it grabs a patch of hard pavement during a slip at 25mph it can grenade your rear end. So in a nutshell, a locker isn't as good as limited slip in normal snow driving.

 

[Mikefj40]

Buy the TE and be done with it The resale will make up for the price difference.

That was my thinking too. Saw the Trail Premium at a dealer in the Bay Area and drove it home that day. As close to an impulse buy as I've ever made automotively. Super sweet out of the box. Sweeter after a few mods. Either way it will serve you well on highway or trail. The trail edition has a little more clearance than the Limited and SR5 I think. That comes in handy in all kinds of non-Rubicon situations.

Mikefj40
'14 T4R TE (premium, aka TEP) "Bunky"

 

[Ryan1975]

Locker is good in deep snow trying to gain traction and forward progress. Limited slip allows traction to both rear wheels on a snow covered road, increasing traction and minimizing slip. With a locker, you have an open diff unless it is locked, which isn't advisable driving down a normal snow/ice covered road. It can induce a slide in a braking situation when you let off the throttle, and if it grabs a patch of hard pavement during a slip at 25mph it can grenade your rear end. So in a nutshell, a locker isn't as good as limited slip in normal snow driving.

 

[1engineer]

Locker is good in deep snow trying to gain traction and forward progress. Limited slip allows traction to both rear wheels on a snow covered road, increasing traction and minimizing slip. With a locker, you have an open diff unless it is locked, which isn't advisable driving down a normal snow/ice covered road. It can induce a slide in a braking situation when you let off the throttle, and if it grabs a patch of hard pavement during a slip at 25mph it can grenade your rear end. So in a nutshell, a locker isn't as good as limited slip in normal snow driving.

Yeah, if you have a 1972 Chevy or something lol. Instead of starting a bunch of threads you really need to be reading some that are already posted. Here, let me give you some key words to search:

Use this exact nomenclature in that little google bar on this page
5th gen VSC operation
5th gen ATRAC operation
5th gen TRAC operation

The ONLY time I would ever even think about using 4LO and locked rear for snow is if I were going across some of the trails [MENTION=66300]Intruder[/MENTION] does in the winter. That means miles and miles of slow driving through trails only. Not a paved road, not a gravel road, not a dirt road. A trail and it would have to be a long one at that. In reality 4LO and locker would be more for the ground conditions UNDER the snow more than the snow itself.