That tells me that the issue is in your rear brakes or rear suspension. Since the rear drums were replaced and it got better I would check your rear suspension bushings and your rear axle seals. To check you rear axle seals chock your front tires, raise the rear axle and put on jackstands, remove the rear wheel speed sensors, rotate the tire by hand while watching the tone ring through the wheel speed sensor holes. If the tone rings are wet then you need to replace your rear axle seals, retainers, and wheel bearings. When a rear axle seal leaks you will get gear oil in the rear drum which can cause a brake vibration (slip/grab feeling) and/or diminished braking depending on how much gear oil is leaking past.
Steering wheel and front end shaking when braking at high speeds
- Thread starter RyansRunner
- Start date
lucidberries
New member
Very insightful comment, thank you.
How likely would it be that when the guys at the shop replaced the rear drums (after all the other work they did initially) they missed checking that? I did not tell them to fix just the front brakes (when I thought that was the issue), I said to check everything, and fix the vibration...
lucidberries
New member
I can give that a try but my parking brake does not seem to do much to stop the vehicle these days haha
phattyduck
Elite Member
You should be using it regularly - it is how the rear shoes are adjusted. If it is loose or doesn't work (the external bell crank and other components can seize) then it should be fixed.
-Charlie
It should have been obvious, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility that they cleaned it all off with brake cleaner because they didn't know where it was coming from. I would still double check just to be sure but that's just me.
lucidberries
New member
Yeah, I 'use' it regularly but that is mostly just habit - not because it works haha. I have started driving away a few times and did not notice it was on. (as it has never worked well during my ownership)
I guess the back brakes seem like a likely culprit... I'll have a chat with the guys I guess. They did mention the rear brakes were hardly worn at all as I believe they were replaced by the previous owner before I bought the vehicle so that would be rather unfortunate.
mtbtim
Elite Member
It could be worn out front differential support bushings.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KpkzuDFvSW0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I also agree it could be worn front LCA bushings. Don't let a shop replace the whole arms. They are charging you for new LCAs because they know their labor rate is expensive, and if they charged you for the time to replace the bushings, the cost would be the same. I don't know your circumstances but owning an older rig like this can get very expensive if you're going to let a shop do all the necessary work for you. If you have the time and space and are willing to invest in some tools, the investment and time spent will be well worth it for you. Also, shops can do some shoddy work. It's better you do it so you know it was done right.
This is one way to replace LCA bushings using a bottle jack.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kmaZNBp1gZM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's another way to replace LCA bushings using a press.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6FzEHygizoI" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KpkzuDFvSW0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I also agree it could be worn front LCA bushings. Don't let a shop replace the whole arms. They are charging you for new LCAs because they know their labor rate is expensive, and if they charged you for the time to replace the bushings, the cost would be the same. I don't know your circumstances but owning an older rig like this can get very expensive if you're going to let a shop do all the necessary work for you. If you have the time and space and are willing to invest in some tools, the investment and time spent will be well worth it for you. Also, shops can do some shoddy work. It's better you do it so you know it was done right.
This is one way to replace LCA bushings using a bottle jack.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kmaZNBp1gZM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's another way to replace LCA bushings using a press.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6FzEHygizoI" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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lucidberries
New member
Thanks for the feedback
Wouldn't the shaking be constant and not just while braking if it were the differential bushings?
I already replaced the lower control arms so those were not the issue.
I totally agree with you about the DIY approach but unfortunately as I mentioned at this time I am unable.
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Batcave007
New member
Hello-
I have same problem and it has been haunting me for a while. I just managed to live with it, however recently a weird noise started coming from the Belt and eventually the drive belt broke and I replaced it, now the noise is back and I don't want to drive it as I feel it could break down any minute.
Any suggestions? (Sorry for hijacking this post, long time lurker, I learned how to replace the belt from here)
I have same problem and it has been haunting me for a while. I just managed to live with it, however recently a weird noise started coming from the Belt and eventually the drive belt broke and I replaced it, now the noise is back and I don't want to drive it as I feel it could break down any minute.
Any suggestions? (Sorry for hijacking this post, long time lurker, I learned how to replace the belt from here)
mtbtim
Elite Member
Well, braking puts more force on the front end than just driving down the road.
What's the relation between braking and the front diff bushings that causes a vibration?
mtbtim
Elite Member
The way I'm thinking is the wheels are in contact with the ground and the brakes are creating drag when they are applied. The CV axles are connected to the wheel steering knuckles and force from the wheels can make its way back to the differential via the CVs. If the braking was somehow uneven due to a bad caliper or uneven fluid pressure to the caliper, this could cause a vibration to the diff that would be accentuated by worn out differential support arm bushings.
It's probably a long shot, but since he says he's addressed the braking and lower control arms, there's not much more that could cause a front end shaking. People have reported to me that they got rid of a front end vibration by replacing the diff support arm bushings but I can't remember if the vibration was all the time or just under braking conditions.
I guess it's possible torsional energy could be making it's way back to the front diff. I've never dealt with bad front diff bushings and always assumed it would be more speed related vibration due to a change in axle shaft angles (similar to bad u joints in a driveshaft or incorrect pinion angle), but I have no direct experience with it.
I wonder if front upper control arm bushings can cause a vibration while braking similar to bad lower control arm bushings. I don't recall if OP addressed front upper control arms/bushings yet.
lucidberries
New member
Foolish of me to not have tried this sooner - using just the hand brake to slow down shakes the hell out of everything… shop replaced the rear drums when
They did the whole front brake job and lower control arms but I guess I need to do a full service in the rear? Unfortunate because they are still like 75% according to the last inspection I had.
Taking it in next week and will report back.
mtbtim
Elite Member
Yeah, maybe the shoes are the cause. You can easily do the rear brake service yourself.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IJkVEBYSecs" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Sparky 97Runner
New member
Make sure to have the shop machine your new drums. New drums are often out of round and need machining. I bet you could pull the drums off yourself and take them to a machine shop and it would solve the remainder of this problem.
lucidberries
New member
My shaking is gone entirely after doing rear shoes cylinders and drums.
This advice was very helpful. I’d recommend anyone experiencing what they think is brake shuttering to do this to determine if it is actually the rear brakes vs front vs some other issue.
Thank you everyone for the comments
Hey all, been having some similar issues on my 2002 4Runner where I’ve been having my steering wheel and front end shaking when I’m braking mostly either at high speeds or downhill I suspect it’s mainly an issue in the front right wheel as there’s a strong burning smell coming from it after braking a lot, maybe a lower control arm? Or hopefully just an alignment issue? Any tips or advice is appreciated!
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