T4R5G Premium Dual Battery - NOT Hardcore

[Farzad_K]

Hello.

Before saying "this has been discussed a million miles" let me tell you that it has not. I am not looking for the hardcore dual battery system and involvement of the alternator, thousands of dollars by other-than-dealer shops. Nope, I am looking to have the second battery, a gentle, deep cycle 12v AGM or LiFePO sitting inside the 4R powering my 12v cooler BUT while being charged off the 12v 10A accessory port of the T4 at the same time while I am driving. I could do this using the built-in inverter but then I have to carry the 120v charging brick with me and they usually don't have the power to charge and to power at the same time, I don't think.

I have looked at a few options, Victron Orion Tr, DC-DC chargers for example, and similar Renogy devices. But neither one of them tells me if I can plug it into the 12v accessory port and charge a 12v battery while the battery is powering the cooler and they all are thinking that the alternator will be involved. Victron especially has been all over the place with responses to my inquiry and some of their ideas are more contradictory than others.

On the occasions of my roadtrip it would be for astronomy, and I will have solar cells on my Prnisu charging my astronomy battery during the day, so I have also looked at devices that can do MPPT at the same time and just taking DC from a source other than PV and charging the 12v.

All that I want is to have a battery that can keep my cooler running while I stop many times during a roadtrip, especially at night and during breaks at rest stops.

Thanks a lot for any thoughts and suggestions.

Farzad

 

[docsnavely]

Sounds like a Jackery or something similar would be a good solution for you if all you're looking for is fridge/cooler maintenance and overnight device charging. These type of devices can be topped off with solar and managed with 12v DC or 120v AC supply. Plus they're mobile so you can carry it anywhere.

 

[Farzad_K]

Sounds like a Jackery or something similar would be a good solution for you if all you're looking for is fridge/cooler maintenance and overnight device charging. These type of devices can be topped off with solar and managed with 12v DC or 120v AC supply. Plus they're mobile so you can carry it anywhere.

I am afraid it is boiling down to that, unfortunately. These products come with a lot of bells and whistles that I don't know of their quality and some that I don't even need. I feel like I should be able to do the same thing as Jackery and similar are doing minus the other parts of them that I don't need or want. I would much rather get a device like this Renogy instead if I could get enough support for it, and unfortunately support is a thing of the past.

 

[Old Tanker]

I am afraid it is boiling down to that, unfortunately. These products come with a lot of bells and whistles that I don't know of their quality and some that I don't even need. I feel like I should be able to do the same thing as Jackery and similar are doing minus the other...

You could give the good folks at Overland Power Solutions a call - they build custom box units with quality components tailored to your needs.

 

[mrblah]

I would strongly consider a Jackery. The Jackery is the reason that I dumped my dual battery setup. It's way more convenient than a dual battery setup (more power with LiPO in a smaller package). Easy to connect solar. No wires, no fuse, and no weight penalty. You can also remove it from the vehicle, and move it around your campsite (use it in a tent) power camp lights, power music/speakers, or even, around your home to charge or use it for other things, not vehicle related.

They also go on sale fairly often.

 

[Mack1611]

How to make a cheap isolated dual-battery setup for $50 | Expedition Portal

 

[4r-4ever]

Here's my setup. Not really too difficult. can easily be moved to any vehicle if you ended up changing your vehicle in the future. The only thing you needed to do is wire the positive from the front battery to the back and the negative to the the body somewhere. DC-DC charger works great. i was able to use that battery for 2-3 days powering my 55 liter fridge during my camping trip. multi purpose as a storage of wires and some tools. it gets recharge when we go around visit places too. I have the option to connect a solar panel with that dc-dc charger which i don't need rightnow.

Portable Dual Battery using REDARC DC-DC charger - YouTube

Hello.

Before saying "this has been discussed a million miles" let me tell you that it has not. I am not looking for the hardcore dual battery system and involvement of the alternator, thousands of dollars by other-than-dealer shops. Nope, I am looking to have the second battery, a gentle, deep cycle 12v AGM or LiFePO sitting inside the 4R powering my 12v cooler BUT while being charged off the 12v 10A accessory port of the T4 at the same time while I am driving. I could do this using the built-in inverter but then I have to carry the 120v charging brick with me and they usually don't have the power to charge and to power at the same time, I don't think.

I have looked at a few options, Victron Orion Tr, DC-DC chargers for example, and similar Renogy devices. But neither one of them tells me if I can plug it into the 12v accessory port and charge a 12v battery while the battery is powering the cooler and they all are thinking that the alternator will be involved. Victron especially has been all over the place with responses to my inquiry and some of their ideas are more contradictory than others.

On the occasions of my roadtrip it would be for astronomy, and I will have solar cells on my Prnisu charging my astronomy battery during the day, so I have also looked at devices that can do MPPT at the same time and just taking DC from a source other than PV and charging the 12v.

All that I want is to have a battery that can keep my cooler running while I stop many times during a roadtrip, especially at night and during breaks at rest stops.

Thanks a lot for any thoughts and suggestions.

Farzad

 

[Farzad_K]

You could give the good folks at Overland Power Solutions a call - they build custom box units with quality components tailored to your needs.

Just sent them a message, thanks.

 

[ScottsBad]

Yeah, I agree with MrBlah above. ^

I think the simplest and most flexible solution these days is the Jackery or something similar. They just had an anniversary sale, it might still be happening if you check on their site or Amazon.

Anyway, I just bought a 1500. And I think I saved $250.

These are serious pieces of equipment designed in California by American engineers. They use Panasonic commercial batteries.

The nice thing about the Jackery is that you can plug it in to the lighter socket, and plug your fridge into the Jackery. The car will charge the Jackery and the Jackery will power the fridge all at the same time. When you turn the key off the Jackery will continue to power the fridge. Works the same as it it were and dedicated wired battery, but portable.

Different models can do different things, but the 1500 can take two charging inputs at the same time. Say, a 12v lighter plug and a solar panel, to charge faster.

Its also very portable, you can just take it out of your 4R, and use it for backup power should the power go off at home. It has a very high quality and powerful 110V inverters. It will run a full sized home refrigerator for instance.

Its got USB and USB-C too.

It does all this stuff without much wiring in your vehicle, and you can use in in more than one vehicle, at a picnic, or tent camping away from your vehicle.

They just released a 2000 version that just has a bigger battery.

They seem quite expensive, but if you consider the cost of an advanced chemistry battery, the wiring, and the fact that it has to stay in the vehicle, the Jackery (and similar), with high power inverters, and portability is the way to go.

The reason I mention Jackery is that I've been using this brand for a few years and they are very reliable.

I put a dual battery system in my boat years ago, and its good to keep the big stereo amps from draining the starting battery. But its a pain in the ass to wire.

If you don't need that kind of power, and just want to run a 12v fridge and a few lights and such. Get a Jackery the flexibility is amazing. And I suggest keeping a NOCO starter brick in your 4R. The NOCO can be charged by the Jackery if necessary.

 

[ScottsBad]

I am afraid it is boiling down to that, unfortunately. These products come with a lot of bells and whistles that I don't know of their quality and some that I don't even need. I feel like I should be able to do the same thing as Jackery and similar are doing minus the other parts of them that I don't need or want. I would much rather get a device like this Renogy instead if I could get enough support for it, and unfortunately support is a thing of the past.

The Jackery is a high quality solid piece of equipment, read the reviews. Most complaints are like, the XYZ brand has a certain plug I need, or the Bluetti brand is a little cheaper, etc.

You will see very few failures if any. Of course they can be misused.

My experience for about three or four years is that my samples have been rock solid. And I just bought a Explorer 1500 which is quite amazing.

They are not cheap, but simple, powerful, portable and flexible.

YMMV

 

[SlvrRnnR]

Another vote here for a Jackery setup.

I have a smaller Dometic (since its just me or me +1 use) and use it with the Jackery 500 (into 12V Jackery input, Jackery into rear 12V of the 4runner).

When stopped for longer periods of time or once to destination I'll plug the 100W panel in (crack the rear window 1/4" for the cable) and hopefully it's sunny. Then things remain topped off.

When not traveling the fridge and Jackery go inside for backup/poweroutages/garage use.

If I was doing longer trips (now usually just long weekends) I'd consider the 1000W or 1500W Jackery and a bigger fridge but so far great set up for me. I added the cover to the Domestic and that helped even more with efficiency in keeping it cool during warmer months.

Jackery is a solid unit. I'm always considering quality 1st, then portable/mobility and also weight/space.

 

[Old Tanker]

Another vote here for a Jackery setup.

I have a smaller Domestic (since its just me or me +1 use) and use it with the Jackery 500 (into 12V Jackery input, Jackery into rear 12V of the 4runner)...

I use a Jackery 500 with our Engel fridge. The Jackery is dependable and portable. I have three dislikes:

1. That handle doesn't work so well for tying it down.
2. The Engel plug into the Jackery is a little loose, so I worry that it will pop out during travel. I rely on duct tape to hold it in place.
3. 500 WH is enough for about two days of camp use. After that I need a full day of travel to charge it back up, or a clear day out in the sun. No multi-day camps under shade or clouds.

I'd be happier with the Dometic PLB40, but the capacity is the same as the Jackery 500. A Dometic 80, if there were such a thing, would be the sweet spot.

 

[Farzad_K]

I use a Jackery 500 with our Engel fridge. The Jackery is dependable and portable. I have three dislikes:

1. That handle doesn't work so well for tying it down.
2. The Engel plug into the Jackery is a little loose, so I worry that it will pop out during travel. I rely on duct tape to hold it in place.
3. 500 WH is enough for about two days of camp use. After that I need a full day of travel to charge it back up, or a clear day out in the sun. No multi-day camps under shade or clouds.

I'd be happier with the , but the capacity is the same as the Jackery 500. A Dometic 80, if there were such a thing, would be the sweet spot.

The problem I found with the Jackery 1000's 12v Cigarette output port is that it could come loose over night especially when it gets colder. I would like a more positive connection in general for astronomy gear that includes an onboard PC that doesn't like power interruptions.

The packaged systems like the Jackery, the Dometic PLB40 and similar come with things like inverters, USB portals, maybe the solar charge controllers of which we know nothing about their quality or performance. The best is if we build our own package: one very good LiFePO battery with sufficient capacity for our needs, a reliable and efficient charger, a reliable power connector, a reliable and efficient inverter (if one needs such a thing), and a battery monitor.

 

[borfoo3]

Hello.

Before saying "this has been discussed a million miles" let me tell you that it has not. I am not looking for the hardcore dual battery system and involvement of the alternator, thousands of dollars by other-than-dealer shops. Nope, I am looking to have the second battery, a gentle, deep cycle 12v AGM or LiFePO sitting inside the 4R powering my 12v cooler BUT while being charged off the 12v 10A accessory port of the T4 at the same time while I am driving. I could do this using the built-in inverter but then I have to carry the 120v charging brick with me and they usually don't have the power to charge and to power at the same time, I don't think.

I have looked at a few options, Victron Orion Tr, DC-DC chargers for example, and similar Renogy devices. But neither one of them tells me if I can plug it into the 12v accessory port and charge a 12v battery while the battery is powering the cooler and they all are thinking that the alternator will be involved. Victron especially has been all over the place with responses to my inquiry and some of their ideas are more contradictory than others.

On the occasions of my roadtrip it would be for astronomy, and I will have solar cells on my Prnisu charging my astronomy battery during the day, so I have also looked at devices that can do MPPT at the same time and just taking DC from a source other than PV and charging the 12v.

All that I want is to have a battery that can keep my cooler running while I stop many times during a roadtrip, especially at night and during breaks at rest stops.

Thanks a lot for any thoughts and suggestions.

Farzad

Just a note on the rear stock DC accessory outlet is not quite ready to handle sustained high loads to run a fridge.. chances are your rear battery would still drain a bit while plugged in during a long trip as it powers the fridge. I experienced this with my ARB fridge several times before installing my dual battery setup and new wiring to the back.

 

[Old Tanker]

Just a note on the rear stock DC accessory outlet is not quite ready to handle sustained high loads to run a fridge.. chances are your rear battery would still drain a bit while plugged in during a long trip as it powers the fridge....

Mine keeps up with a Jackery and an Engel 45 - pulls ahead by 10-15% per hour. Even so, two days in camp will require a long drive to recharge back above 90%. I'm thinking the replacement will involve heavy gauge wire to the battery and an Anderson plug to a house battery in the rear. I need to figure out the best way to run the wire.

 

[Farzad_K]

Just a note on the rear stock DC accessory outlet is not quite ready to handle sustained high loads to run a fridge.. chances are your rear battery would still drain a bit while plugged in during a long trip as it powers the fridge. I experienced this with my ARB fridge several times before installing my dual battery setup and new wiring to the back.

The 12v accessory ports deliver 14.1v and according to documentation, 10A maximum - total, and so if there are other devices mooching off of the 12v 10A circuitry I am not surprised one of the ports may not have sufficient juice when needed. And when needed is when the cooler, for example, needs to start the cooling compressor to catchup with the user-set temperature. I have had a unit plugged in for about a week and have been testing it out, and when it does need to cool itself again it pulls between 4 to 5 amps - never really 5 amps, but it is rated for that. The cooler usually takes about 3 to 5 minutes to get to the desired temperature and then it goes silent again - pulling no current.

There is also the inverter circuitry that can be used as an alternative.

 

[Farzad_K]

Looks like a good setup, thanks for sharing. I might consider something similar. But the more I look at my needs the more I realize I will be needing the cooler powered all night by the battery (Jackery, etc.), and then at dawn the battery needs to be getting solar charging. There is a lot of disconnect this and reconnect that going on in my mind and I want to limit that. I am trying to imagine the needs and build around it.

 

[Farzad_K]

Another vote here for a Jackery setup.

I have a smaller Dometic (since its just me or me +1 use) and use it with the Jackery 500 (into 12V Jackery input, Jackery into rear 12V of the 4runner).

When stopped for longer periods of time or once to destination I'll plug the 100W panel in (crack the rear window 1/4" for the cable) and hopefully it's sunny. Then things remain topped off.

When not traveling the fridge and Jackery go inside for backup/poweroutages/garage use.

If I was doing longer trips (now usually just long weekends) I'd consider the 1000W or 1500W Jackery and a bigger fridge but so far great set up for me. I added the cover to the Domestic and that helped even more with efficiency in keeping it cool during warmer months.

Jackery is a solid unit. I'm always considering quality 1st, then portable/mobility and also weight/space.

Looks like a good setup, thanks for sharing. I might consider something similar. But the more I look at my needs the more I realize I will be needing the cooler powered all night by the battery (Jackery, etc.), and then at dawn the battery needs to be getting solar charging. There is a lot of disconnect this and reconnect that going on in my mind and I want to limit that. I am trying to imagine the needs and build around it.

 

[Farzad_K]

So, after some searching, YouTube watching, I have contacted a couple of local Overlander Outlets and prices are very high. One has given me at estimate of $6,000 (US) with 50% of it being just labor. Another one will be giving me an estimate this week and I am not holding my breath.

The toughest thing to get done right is properly passing of the heavy gage wires from the engine compartment to the other end of the vehicle. I have watched some videos and it isn't something that I can do without spending a lot of time learning, and it isn't something that I can trust just any shop to do.

Maybe if I could find a good shop I can just ask them to do the main cabling without connecting to anything at any end, then I can figure out the rest and maybe even take it back to them to do other parts of this in steps so that I can afford it.

Hey, just for laughs, I have a couple of schematics of the system that I think can work and I have attached them to this message. Well, hopefully not just for laughs, and at least also for discussion.

 

[ScottsBad]

Well those aren't exactly schematic diagrams for electrical of electronics, but they convey the idea at a high level.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I did a marine grade second battery install in my boat. I did it myself, and its non-trivial if you don't know much about these systems. One of the things you need to add is a way to cut power to the second battery manually, You also need fusing. I had a little background in electronics so that helped.

On my boat system, I also included the ability to switch the secondary battery in line to start the boat should the primary battery fail. This requires a fairly complex switch wired with large battery gauge wire. I think I used flexible welding lead wire which is a pain to work with. This may not be a requirement for a vehicle.

By use of an isolator, and a regulator the system charges both batteries, until the secondary is full. Then just the primary. So anytime the secondary drains to a certain threshold, the system automatically sends some power to it to keep it charged as long as the engine is running.

This is why I strongly urged the use of the Jackery. It may be lacking somewhat, but it is far simpler and easier than doing all the wiring that just sits in the vehicle until you take your next trip. BTW you also have to select the right components depending on the type of battery you will use as a secondary. Choosing an advanced chemistry battery requires the proper charging system. You cannot use the same charging system for all batteries.

All of the electronics are built into the Jackery. You just plug the Jackery into a 10A 12V circuit in your vehicle. It does everything else. Its the isolator, the regulator, and the battery. You just plug your refrigerator into the Jackery, it does everything else.

The one downside of the Jackery 1500 for your needs, is the slow 12v charging. There are ways around that because you can plug two charging sources into it at the same time. But I'll let you discover how to use that if you want.

The Jackery 1500 is also optimized for solar, so you might want to look into getting a couple portable folding panels if you go this route and you have sun.

I would think that a 1500 would power your fridge for 3 days without a charge anyway if the temp wasn't extremely hot and left in the sun. BTW try not to open the fridge often (kids do that). And pre-cool the food before loading the first time and you will get much longer battery life.

I would not recommend the Jackery for someone who lives out of their vehicle, or is overlanding without moving frequently. But for most of us who usually go out for one to four days, and don't use electricity for cooking. I think its a great option.

JMHO




This regulator keeps the secondary battery from being over charged.