The $4000 Suspension Question

[mountain mike]

I put a Toytec Boss kit on my 4Runner about a year ago. I have put about 5000 miles on it since installation. In short I do not like it. Best way I can explain it is that the Toyec seems to exaggerate the bumps instead of absorbing them. I know some people really like the Boss kit, but I am afraid it is not for me. I have messed with the coilover height trying to get more of a “plush” ride without success.
I am about to the point where I am going to scrap the Toytec kit and go with something higher end. I don’t want to go LT and mess with glass or new CV’s. I would like to stay with a mid-travel set up. Just something that rides very nice and plush. I have a budget of about $4000 for this, and could stretch if need be.
Currently I am leaning towards to the Icon Stage 5 kit. It has remote resi’s with compression adjustors. I think the compression adjustors will allow me to dial in the ride more to my liking. I also had an Icon kit on my F150 and was really happy with it.
Here are my questions. The Icon Stage 5 kit comes with new UCA’s. If I go with the Icon kit should I go ahead and buy the Icon UCA’s? I currently have light racing UCA's. Will the light racing UCA’s be okay or should I just jump in and buy the whole kit including the UCA’s? I would think the ball joint of the LR offer a cleaner, less maintenance solution. But there might be something to be said to have a full Icon kit.
Is there another set up I should also consider? I looked a little bit at Kings, but on websites I am not seeing a 4runner kit with resi’s and compression adjustors. I’m sure I could live without the resi’s but I am fairly dead set on the compression adjustors and from what I have seen you have to get the resi’s in order to get the compression adjustors. Patio Burritos set up is very sick, but I think it’s more than what I need.
I have thought about ORI’s as well, but I don’t know much about then which is making we shy away. Does anyone have any experience with these? How do they ride on road?
What I am looking for is the best possible ride. Something super plush that controls body roll.

 

[thatoneguygeoff]

I am buying the Camburg uniball upper arm kit with the King coil overs and rear shocks with the compression adjustments. From talking with a few different off-road friends of mine, they all agree that the King shocks are the better route with more adjustability. I should be picking these up in 2 weeks and will give a review once I get everything installed.

 

[JayRolla]

My buddy has same issue with his ultimate kit. I run just 881 OME coils with there sport comfort shocks with some weight (softens it up a bit) and he really likes how mine rides.

My brother just went with an ICON kit for his 4th gen and from the reviews people just love the way the suspension soaks up the bumps. We have yet to get it installed though.

 

[SnowLizard]

I'm in the same boat, but way less budget...

I have my stock suspension on my 99, and shocks and shock bushings are shot... I was looking at the toytec boss kit, but fear the ride is too rough... do you have heavy bumpers? armor? or any extra weight? I've read on some it won't work great until you add the weight... but then I'm not able to add weight until much later so what ever i get must ride nice with no weight too.


my budget is 1200-1600 and just started the research... I'll be following this thread and reading all suggestions. opcorn:

 

[mountain mike]

Should have mentioned weight. I do not have bumpers (probably a couple years out) but I do have skids front to back including a diff skid. I also have BAMF DOM sliders.

 

[JayRolla]

Should have mentioned weight. I do not have bumpers (probably a couple years out) but I do have skids front to back including a diff skid. I also have BAMF DOM sliders.

A front bumper with a winch and steel line will really soften up the front of that Ultimate kit.

 

[mountain mike]

A front bumper with a winch and steel line will really soften up the front of that Ultimate kit.

That's actually a good point. I had the Ultimate kit on my FJ and after I added a front bumper it rode a lot better. It rode actually really good after the bumper. I got completes on it all the time. Maybe I should just go with a front bumper instead and pray that works. Humm, more to think about

 

[rideexileex]

I think you just need different shocks (in this case all new struts...). For general driving, just get some moderate priced billsteins and the coils to match your rig's weight setup. Icon, King, etc is all great for desert bombing, but overkill in my mind for everything else.

King's have the same adjustability as well, but you'll just have to give them a call to order up.

I still think having a sway bar is your best bet for controlling body roll - is it that you want to get rid of the sway bar?

 

[mountain mike]

^^ Running sway bars front and rear and still have noticeable body roll. Not wanting to give them up. I like them on road. I may get disconnects for off road. But for now they are on and staying on.

 

[masphx]

I went standard travel icons and 2.5 rear res in the rear. I have heard that front res is a waste of $$$ on these rigs because the stock cv can't handle the travel. Even the ext travel 2.5 coilover I was told was a waste of $$$. Only reason I would go for the front res would be to get those adjusters but at the cost does not seem resonable. You could always add that stuff down the road so that is the nice part. Btw, I got most of my info on the icon set up from soaztim. If you have the time check out his blog and build on overland portal. This guy went everywhere on the set up I bought.

 

[D Farms]

before you buy anything research progressive and digressive shocks. toytec uses bilstein shocks, and they are digressive. this means as the start moving they are stiff and become softer when the movement is faster. so say you hit a bump, first it will resist the movement then as the speed becomes greater the shock gives out and the resistance decreases. I believe this is what causes the shocks to feel poorly offroad. progressive does the opposite, when the shock starts to move there is little resistance and then it builds up as the speed increases. king and ads use progressive and icon and bilstein use digressive but the icons still ride very well and can be revalved to be progressive.

 

[TOY2G]

before you buy anything research progressive and digressive shocks. Toytec uses bilstein shocks, and they are digressive. This means as the start moving they are stiff and become softer when the movement is faster. So say you hit a bump, first it will resist the movement then as the speed becomes greater the shock gives out and the resistance decreases. I believe this is what causes the shocks to feel poorly offroad. Progressive does the opposite, when the shock starts to move there is little resistance and then it builds up as the speed increases. King and ads use progressive and icon and bilstein use digressive but the icons still ride very well and can be revalved to be progressive.

this^

 

[snivilous]

Your valving is wrong, throw whatever setup you want on your truck and if your valving is wrong it'll be too harsh or too soft. Sounds like the compression adjusters will make you happier. Even if a shock is digressive, if it's valved stiff as hell then it won't help running a progressive shock that's still valved stiff as hell. That's the issue with running shocks you can't rebuild or adjust, all you can change is spring rate which is the backwards way of dialing in your ride.

 

[kolelt]

I've noticed that my bilstein 5100/eibachs ride smoother on off road terrain at higher speeds. But on regular road, tiny pot holes hurt my teeth sometimes.

 

[absalom]

If I had $4,000 to spend on suspension, I would copy and paste PatioBurrito's setup. For $2,000, I would copy Masphx's setup, it's a VERY composed ride.

 

[mountain mike]

before you buy anything research progressive and digressive shocks. toytec uses bilstein shocks, and they are digressive. this means as the start moving they are stiff and become softer when the movement is faster. so say you hit a bump, first it will resist the movement then as the speed becomes greater the shock gives out and the resistance decreases. I believe this is what causes the shocks to feel poorly offroad. progressive does the opposite, when the shock starts to move there is little resistance and then it builds up as the speed increases. king and ads use progressive and icon and bilstein use digressive but the icons still ride very well and can be revalved to be progressive.

Wow, there is a lot of info on this out there. Need to try and digest this a little bit more.

You could always add that stuff down the road so that is the nice part.

That is true, however, if I pull the trigger on this I am going to go all out. I took the cheap way out (or cheaper) when I bought the Toytec kit and if I redo everything I am not going to skimp on any of the options that I think I want. I would hate to drop the coin only to find out I did want the resi's and compression adjustors.

Your valving is wrong, throw whatever setup you want on your truck and if your valving is wrong it'll be too harsh or too soft. Sounds like the compression adjusters will make you happier. Even if a shock is digressive, if it's valved stiff as hell then it won't help running a progressive shock that's still valved stiff as hell. That's the issue with running shocks you can't rebuild or adjust, all you can change is spring rate which is the backwards way of dialing in your ride.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the valving is incorrect. I believe you can get custom valving from King and maybe Icon, but who is to say where the valving should be set? I would guess compression adjustors would help alleviate this?

 

[snivilous]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the valving is incorrect. I believe you can get custom valving from King and maybe Icon, but who is to say where the valving should be set? I would guess compression adjustors would help alleviate this?

Exactly, that's why I think you would like compression adjusters since you want more fine tuning than most and aside from revalving a shock (which would be the best way but takes more effort) the adjusters will let you dial it in without guessing at custom valving. King/Fox/Icon etc. also have valving calculators so if you call them with the geometry and weight you're running (plus if you could get a hold of the current valving you have) I bet they could get you an almost perfect setup and obviously comp adjusters on top of that would be super slick.

If I had $4,000 to spend on suspension, I would copy and paste PatioBurrito's setup. For $2,000, I would copy Masphx's setup, it's a VERY composed ride.

PatioBurrito's setup is sick, I would be surprised if it's only $4k haha

 

[absalom]

Exactly, that's why I think you would like compression adjusters since you want more fine tuning than most and aside from revalving a shock (which would be the best way but takes more effort) the adjusters will let you dial it in without guessing at custom valving. King/Fox/Icon etc. also have valving calculators so if you call them with the geometry and weight you're running (plus if you could get a hold of the current valving you have) I bet they could get you an almost perfect setup and obviously comp adjusters on top of that would be super slick.



PatioBurrito's setup is sick, I would be surprised if it's only $4k haha

I spoke with King, they quoted $3,500 for what we see, minus the Total Chaos stuff of course.

 

[snivilous]

I spoke with King, they quoted $3,500 for what we see, minus the Total Chaos stuff of course.

I was including TC and everything there. $3500 for just shocks makes sense, I would of guessed each side was $1700 or so

 

[A.Wilson013]

Before I got my new setup I thought that my 4Runner (Icon) and [MENTION=82154]GSPRunner[/MENTION]'s 4Runner (King) felt exactly the same. Pretty rough on any small bump in the road. Digressive, progressive, whatever. Once the bigger bumps came around it was in no way "soft", but much more controllable.

Now that I got the CDC Valves I have noticed that it's a whole lot smoother over the same bumps I drive everyday, but it's still not "soft" by any means. Even on the "soft" setting.

Honestly, I like the "Hard" setting the most so far. The speeds I was able to comfortably maintain this weekend on my way to my father's ranch were awesome. My tall, heavy, and front swaybarless 4Runner felt damn near sporty.

The "soft" setting I used once I hit the dirt was pretty awesome, but not as amazing. It did make the 10 mile ROUGH road a much faster experience.

Daily driving I roll 6 on the front and 7 in the rear. Seems a good balance for my application.

*edit* I just looked at your build thread and I don't see any mention of a body lift, but your 4Runner is TALL. Way taller than mine. What's your hub to fender measurement?

Also, when I had the BOSS kit I really liked it around town, but I had the 550lb coils. It was when I wanted to go fast on rough stuff offroad that I decided to step up to Icon.