Time For A New Starter or Flexplate? Grinding Noise

[WeAreSLO]

I replaced the solenoid contacts about two months ago when a grinding noise in the starter/flex plate area developed. This light grinding gets faster with RPM and is prevalent at start-up and stays for a few minutes. I assumed it was the front of the starter gear grinding on the flex plate and replaced the solenoid contacts. This seemed to stop the issue but it returned recently, and today the engine actually didn't turn over at first, click and nothing, turned the key a couple more times and it finally engaged and turned over. I have a video of the grinding sound once she was running. Also put some pictures of the starter from when I pulled it a couple months ago, I could see the bearings behind the wavy retaining ring but didn't think it was an issue.
YouTube
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Could a couple loose bearings be in the bell housing? Time for a remanned Denso starter? Thanks!

 

[RotaryDreamz]

Have you opened up the inspection cover and taken a look inside? I have more of a rattle sound in my bell housing area, thought it was the flexplate, but I stuck a boroscope up there and there's no cracks. Rare, but I believe it may be my torque converter.

 

[WeAreSLO]

Have you opened up the inspection cover and taken a look inside? I have more of a rattle sound in my bell housing area, thought it was the flexplate, but I stuck a boroscope up there and there's no cracks. Rare, but I believe it may be my torque converter.

I don't have a borescope to check in there unfortunately. What are the other symptoms of a bad torque converter? Sometimes it does feel like it holds 2nd gear for a little too long but seems normal for my short mile and half commute to work doing 25-30 mph.

 

[mtbtim]

What I heard in the video doesn't sound like the starter grinding on the flex plate. It does however sound like a potentially cracked flex plate.

A starter not disengaging from the flex plate is a pretty distinct sound. It sounds like your starter is probably done unless you want to try to rebuild it. I suggest you get yourself a remanned Denso starter and also remove the access plate on the bottom of the bell housing to take a look at your flex plate. A bore scope camera will help you see the areas of the flex plate that you can't see.

I bought this borescope camera recently and it works pretty damn good. Industrial Endoscope, SKYBASIC 1080P HD Digital Borescope Camera Waterproof 4.3 Inch LCD Screen Snake Camera Video Inspection Camera with 6 LED Lights, Semi-Rigid Cable, 16GB TF Card and Tool (16.5FT): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific I used it to look into the spark plug well and engine cylinder when my girlfriend's BMW motor blew out a spark plug from the head.

 

[fourfive]

You can get a pretty cheap borescope that works with your phone to check the inspection plate. If you don't see any cracks my next move would be to drop the pan and see if there are large metal shavings (not the typical paste on the magnets). Any pending codes? Have a scangauge or something similar to check transmission temps?

Amazon.com: DEPSTECH Wireless Endoscope, IP67 Waterproof WiFi Borescope Inspection 2.0 Megapixels HD Snake Camera for Android and iOS Smartphone, iPhone, Samsung, Tablet -Black(11.5FT): Automotive

 

[jgue467]

You can get a pretty cheap borescope that works with your phone...

Thanks for posting this link! : ^ ))

 

[WeAreSLO]

What I heard in the video doesn't sound like the starter grinding on the flex plate. It does however sound like a potentially cracked flex plate.

A starter not disengaging from the flex plate is a pretty distinct sound. It sounds like your starter is probably done unless you want to try to rebuild it. I suggest you get yourself a remanned Denso starter and also remove the access plate on the bottom of the bell housing to take a look at your flex plate. A bore scope camera will help you see the areas of the flex plate that you can't see...

Rockauto has remanned Denso for 84 bucks plus 34 dollar core, that seems like a good deal, replace it to rule it out. Thanks for the borescope link, I'll get one while I'm at it.

 

[WeAreSLO]

You can get a pretty cheap borescope that works with your phone to check the inspection plate. If you don't see any cracks my next move would be to drop the pan and see if there are large metal shavings (not the typical paste on the magnets). Any pending codes? Have a scangauge or something similar to check transmission temps?

Amazon.com: DEPSTECH Wireless Endoscope, IP67 Waterproof WiFi Borescope Inspection 2.0 Megapixels HD Snake Camera for Android and iOS Smartphone, iPhone, Samsung, Tablet -Black(11.5FT): Automotive

Thanks for the link. No codes or anything recently. Where exactly is the inspection plate?

I was getting an intermittent random cylinder misfire on long drives but that went away after changing the spark plugs last year. I do have an OBDII scanner but haven't seen anything abnormal. For the last 10 months or so my commute has been cut to about 1.5 miles. Maybe all this short driving is starting to wear on it? Trans might not be getting fully hot and all that.

I should note that I have a bad thrust washer that was discovered when going to replace the TB so the crankshaft can slide forward and back, I've read this could lead to a cracked flexplate. Borescope is next

 

[RotaryDreamz]

Thanks for the link. No codes or anything recently. Where exactly is the inspection plate?

I was getting an intermittent random cylinder misfire on long drives but that went away after changing the spark plugs last year. I do have an OBDII scanner but haven't seen anything abnormal. For the last 10 months or so my commute has been cut to about 1.5 miles. Maybe all this short driving is starting to wear on it? Trans might not be getting fully hot and all that.

I should note that I have a bad thrust washer that was discovered when going to replace the TB so the crankshaft can slide forward and back, I've read this could lead to a cracked flexplate. Borescope is next

Definitely check the flexplate when possible. Crankshaft play can have a tick sound that can get progressively worse. Rod knock is the term, but I'm not too familiar of the sound. May want to look into that if the flexplate inspection passes.

 

[fourfive]

Thanks for the link. No codes or anything recently. Where exactly is the inspection plate?

This pic is with the inspection plate removed and you can see a small portion of the flexplate exposed. If you follow the oil pan rearward you'll run into the flexplate. Its at the lower front portion of the bell housing & held on by 4 bolts.

 

[WeAreSLO]

Definitely check the flexplate when possible. Crankshaft play can have a tick sound that can get progressively worse. Rod knock is the term, but I'm not too familiar of the sound. May want to look into that if the flexplate inspection passes.

I've read that crankshaft end play and bad torque converters can cause broken flex plates. I think mine finally kicked the bucket, I've got a video below that I took after trying to drive it earlier. Should I expect to break another flexplate if I don't fix the root cause? I have crank shaft end play but that will be super expensive to fix.

This pic is with the inspection plate removed and you can see a small portion of the flexplate exposed. If you follow the oil pan rearward you'll run into the flexplate. Its at the lower front portion of the bell housing & held on by 4 bolts.

Borescope should be here Monday and I'll give it a look but I think I got my answer today! Video here:

YouTube

I hope that's the sound of a destroyed flex plate and not something else.

A couple questions now:
-If it is the flexplate, I'm leaning towards going with a machined one since it should be stronger, is this a good move?
-While the transmission is out should I go ahead and do the rear main seal?

 

[mtbtim]

I've read that crankshaft end play and bad torque converters can cause broken flex plates. I think mine finally kicked the bucket, I've got a video below that I took after trying to drive it earlier. Should I expect to break another flexplate if I don't fix the root cause? I have crank shaft end play but that will be super expensive to fix.



Borescope should be here Monday and I'll give it a look but I think I got my answer today! Video here:

YouTube

I hope that's the sound of a destroyed flex plate and not something else.

A couple questions now:
-If it is the flexplate, I'm leaning towards going with a machined one since it should be stronger, is this a good move?
-While the transmission is out should I go ahead and do the rear main seal?

I've never heard of an option to buy a machined flex plate. Who makes them?

Doing the rear main seal while the trans is out is a good idea and you already have the flex plate off, so why not. When I helped [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] with his trans swap, we saw that his rear main seal was leak free so we passed on replacing it. But, that might end up biting Sean later down the road if a significant leak develops.

We have videos for the trans removal and replacing a rear main seal, so if you end up having a cracked flex plate, you can find those videos on our Timmy the Toolman channel. The trans replacement is a 3 part series and the rear main seal replacement was part of a 2 part clutch replacement.

 

[WeAreSLO]

I've never heard of an option to buy a machined flex plate. Who makes them?

Doing the rear main seal while the trans is out is a good idea and you already have the flex plate off, so why not. When I helped [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] with his trans swap, we saw that his rear main seal was leak free so we passed on replacing it. But, that might end up biting Sean later down the road if a significant leak develops.

We have videos for the trans removal and replacing a rear main seal, so if you end up having a cracked flex plate, you can find those videos on our Timmy the Toolman channel. The trans replacement is a 3 part series and the rear main seal replacement was part of a 2 part clutch replacement.

Timmy, I found your videos via this thread (Flex Plate inspection) and they are super informative, now know I need the trusty 14mm and my borescope to confirm now that the scope finally arrived today.

Also, I somehow completely missed this video in previous searching that is exactly what mine is doing with mine now completely broken:
YouTube

You're right, we unfortunately don't have a fully machined flex plate option. The description on rockauto of the Pioneer brand threw me off as it says that it is a machined flex platee, looks like machined inner with a welded ring gear. According to this thread (Flexplate Replacement PSA) it should be an exact match to the OEM so not a bad deal at $143.

 

[thegipper]

My buddies 1st gen Taco went through two aftermarket flex plates in under 15k miles. I'm not sure where he got them from or what brand they were.We pulled the tranny again and I gave him my old OEM flex plate I had from my old engine. The oem flex plate never broke and he eventually sold the truck.

Point is, you may want to go OEM with the flex plate.

 

[WeAreSLO]

My buddies 1st gen Taco went through two aftermarket flex plates in under 15k miles. I'm not sure where he got them from or what brand they were.We pulled the tranny again and I gave him my old OEM flex plate I had from my old engine. The oem flex plate never broke and he eventually sold the truck.

Point is, you may want to go OEM with the flex plate.

Reluctantly I will be paying a place to do this since I no longer rent a house with a garage to work on things, tempted to do it in the apartment parking lot though lol. I'm gonna go ahead and buy an OEM one from Toyota Parts Deal, my original one lasted 265,000 miles. I think I'll tell them to replace the rear main seal while they're back there too. Preparing myself mentally to drop a grand for someone else to work on her when I usually do it all on my own is tough :cry2:

 

[WeAreSLO]

Update

Just replaced the starter and started her up, so far so good no grinding noise. Here's where I think/hope the problem was, bearing on the old starter was trashed and the starter gear would get hung up occasionally.

 

[mtbtim]

Just replaced the starter and started her up, so far so good no grinding noise. Here's where I think/hope the problem was, bearing on the old starter was trashed and the starter gear would get hung up occasionally.

That's good news.

 

[WeAreSLO]

That's good news.

Totally! Drove her several more times yesterday and still no signs of the noise

 

[3bears]

argg, I dont have a grind noise, mine just started a ticking noise that is coming from that area it seems. However, the exhaust is shot so maybe something else is ticking. It is throwing a 420 code for 02 sensor, but that cant be it. At first I only heard it when it was cold, now it seems to be all the time.
so.........reading .....watching videos....listening....but cant really climb under it for a while till the snow is gone....snowing today.

Tranny fluid and color is fine, no slipping, no delays in shifting. Supposedly this is not original tranny for this car according to p.o., but no receipts to prove it.

if it is a cracked flex plate....will they just go all at one time ( blow apart)....or will it get obviously worse/louder ?

 

[Bad Luck]

if it is a cracked flex plate....will they just go all at one time ( blow apart)....or will it get obviously worse/louder ?

Sometimes they crack further and the noise will get worse, but sometimes it cracks completely out of no where. Depending how it cracks the flex plate teeth section can shear off and it won't start but the torque converter and rear of the crankshaft are still connected so it will still drive until you turn it off. If it cracks between the torque converter and the rear of the crankshaft then the starter will still engage, but it will only rotate the outer part of the flex plate with torque converter and the engine won't turn over. I've seen it both ways in other vehicles.