Tire Balancing...MUST READ!

[Thai]

Haweka Flange Plate Adaptor: MUST HAVE to balance tires!

Hey all,

BEFORE you get your tire balanced by Toyota or anyone else, you MUST make sure that the tire shop has one of these:

Haweka Flange Plate Adaptor

They must have this to PROPERLY balance your tires. "Recently, Flange Plate adaptors have been made mandatory by most of the major vehicle manufacturers around the world like Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, Lexus, BMW and more."

 

[Thai]

Hey all,

In addition to above adaptor, it is best to have your wheel & tire balanced using this machine:

http://www.gsp9700.com/

On the website above, you can enter your address to see what shop near you have this balancing machine...here is the direct link:

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

"The GSP9700 Vibration Control System extends far beyond the traditional functions of a wheel balancer. It not only solves wheel balance problems, but also "road tests" the tire/wheel assembly to eliminate virtually every variable causing vibration in relation to the tire and rim.

"The GSP9700 Vibration Control System includes Hunter's exclusive Road Force Measurement System. This system utilizes a "road roller" which measures the uniformity of the wheel and tire, simulating a road force test and verifying if the assembly is "round when rolling" under load. Now nearly all wheel/tire-related vibration problems can be diagnosed and/or eliminated in seconds."

The GSP9700 Vibration Control System measures lateral and radial rim runout without removing the tire from the rim and quickly indicates if runout is tire related. Runout can also be measured at the actual bead seat on a bare rim.
The GSP9700 Vibration Control System then calculates the contributions of the tire and the rim to the vibration problem and presents the technician with easy-to-follow repair instructions.

 

[Thai]

Another important reminder:

If you have non-hubcentric (lugcentric) wheels, they should be torqued correctly while the vehicle is still OFF of the ground so they center properly. The weight of the vehicle can push the wheel off-center slightly while you're tightening them down if left on the ground.

 

[Thai]

Tire vibrations
By Jim Kerr

How often do you need to balance your tires? If everything was perfect, only once, when they are first installed on the rims. However, life is seldom perfect and events occur that can cause problems. The first symptom will be a vibration you feel inside the car.

Balancing a tire is a simple concept. Almost all tires have a heavy spot in them. Placing a weight equal to that spot on the opposite side of the wheel will balance the tire so it doesn't bounce when it rolls down the road. This is called static balancing. As wider tires became more common, dynamic balancing was required. Wide tires can have a heavy spot off to one edge of the tire, which causes it to wobble side to side as it rotates at higher speeds. Dynamic balancing places different-size weights on the inside and outside edge of the wheel to balance the tire evenly from side to side as well as evenly around. If you have your tires balanced, the shop will use an electronic balancer that dynamically balances the tire and shows what size and where the weights need to be installed.

Installing wheel weights used to be easy; there were weights for steel wheels and adhesive-backed weights for alloy wheels. With the many styles of alloy wheels now on vehicles, a variety of weights are required. Many wheel weights are now "coated" so that they don't cause corrosion where they touch the wheel. Weights typically attach to the wheel with an integral spring clip that must match the contour of the edge of the wheel. There are many different shapes, and if the wrong weight is used, it can fall off while driving. Good repair shops will have a broad selection of weights for a correct fit.

Hitting potholes or rubbing against a curb can sometimes knock a weight off. If you have a flat tire, it may also need to be rebalanced after the repair. Unbalanced tires will cause a vibration in the car that usually starts about 50 to 60 km/h and gets more pronounced as the vehicle speeds up. Vibrations in the steering wheel may be from an unbalanced front tire, while rear tire vibrations are usually more apparent in the seat or body of the car. Most tires are balanced within one-quarter of an ounce, or seven grams. Wheels and tires that rotate at higher speeds, such as race cars, may need even better balance.

There are some vibrations that feel like a tire balance problem but are caused by other problems. Mud is one culprit; if it sticks to the inside of a wheel it can put it off balance. A trip to the wand-style car wash should fix this problem. Sometimes tires will be out of round from sitting too long. This is often most noticeable in the winter, but happens in summer too. This type of vibration will be noticed at low speeds (10 to 30 km/hr) and should disappear after driving for a few blocks.

Other vibrations are caused by out-of-round tires, poorly positioned belts inside the tire, bent wheels, bent axles or out-of-balance brake rotors. Modern tire quality is very good, so out-of-round tires or bad belts occur rarely. I often see vehicles driving with bent wheels, while hitting a curb or other solid object can bend an axle too. I had a truck with only a .005-inch bend in an axle, about twice the thickness of a sheet of paper, and it was noticeable on a smooth highway at 100 km/h.

A problem called radial force variation can also cause vibration. The tire's sidewall rubber acts like a spring. If the springiness of the rubber is unequal around the tire, it causes the tire to bounce, just like it is out of balance. There are tire balancing machines that will test for this by spinning the tire with a rolling load placed on it. If the radial force is too uneven, the tire must be replaced.

If your car's tires start doing the shake, rattle and roll, have them checked for balance. Driving with an unbalanced tire places more load on suspensions and wheel bearings. It also puts uneven forces on the tire tread that will cause it to wear unevenly; these tires will still vibrate even though they have been rebalanced.

 

[Kanab]

Thanks Thai, makes you not want to let anyone touch your tires, too many ways to screw it up.

 

[Sifrk]

Very interesting read. I never thought a mundane topic such as wheel balancing was so complicated. Thanks for the advice.

 

[iFORCE]

Very interesting read. I never thought a mundane topic such as wheel balancing was so complicated. Thanks for the advice.

we always make mundane topics lively and interesting for our members to read.

 

[cknsls@adelphia]

Franchises are better for the adapter

I purchased a set of Michelins for a member here. I am thinking about putting them on. You wouldn't belive how many tire shops I have called who have never heard of the adapter or lug centric vs. hub centric.

However, places like BIG O Tire (franchise) they have heard of and have the adapter.
It makes you wonder....

 

[leftyrb]

I had my wheels rotated and balanced at a local tire shop and noticed immediately a shimmy. The tire shop rebalanced and again, no fix. They eventually told me my tires were out of round and would need to be replaced. I was skeptical as I about 15,000 miles on them and they were fine before the tire rotation. I notified the dealer, who balanced them with the special adapter, as a warranty claim.

during the off-on cycle they scuffed the wheel surfaces, and I am was very displeased. I notified the head office and never did hear a response.

 

[20054runnerfan]

I just had 20" Panter Vectors installed and when I drove it the 1st time it vibrated like hell. I took it back and every time they balanced it, it would never properly balance . They told me that they had to get a special adapter to balance them because what they were using did not provide a tight fit on the balancer. They got it to where it is driveable but still have a little vibration at high speeds. They are trying to get the adapter now, which is what I think you are referencing in this post..

 

[4slomo]

I've had road force variation (RFV) balancing every 5K miles on my OEM Bridgestones, to maintain the wonderful smooth ride on the road, and to maximize the wear mileage I get. At 15K miles, one tire just had a measurement of 28 lb RFV and this was indicated as marginal. The other three tires measured at 22 lb RFV, these were noted as within acceptable limits.

I searched the forum, the Bridgestone site, and the Hunter GSP9700 site to try and find what the acceptable limits are for my tires, with no success. Any suggestions or help?

Thanks!

 

[20054runnerfan]

come to find out it was the rims that was the issue.

 

[Toyboomer]

tire balancing

Was reading comments from Thai/others from last year on tire balancing. The GSP 9700 locator site is not working. The comments make it seem as if the dealer may be the only safe place for tire and wheel installation although my wife's dealer (04 Limited) said they don't do tire and wheel work. I think my dealer does. I did not see any comments on tire alignment which seems more technical than balancing. Tire Rack does list the equipment their installers use so one can check there for your local shops even if you're not using Tire Rack.

 

[coolpop]

I've had road force variation (RFV) balancing every 5K miles on my OEM Bridgestones, to maintain the wonderful smooth ride on the road, and to maximize the wear mileage I get. At 15K miles, one tire just had a measurement of 28 lb RFV and this was indicated as marginal. The other three tires measured at 22 lb RFV, these were noted as within acceptable limits.

I searched the forum, the Bridgestone site, and the Hunter GSP9700 site to try and find what the acceptable limits are for my tires, with no success. Any suggestions or help?

Thanks!

I am about as big a tire fanatic as there is, so I will try to answer your questions.

First of all, anything over 15 lbs. of road force is too much. I've done research, I've quizzed tire dealers and tire techs, and that is the general answer that I get. When I bought my Fortera Silent Armors three months ago or so, two of the tires had less than 10 lbs. of road force and two had about 28. I made the dealer show me the printout. I politely explained to the assistant service manager that 28 was too much and he told me that the wouldn't replace the tires unless the road force was over 30. I asked to speak with the manager and literally, within 10 seconds, he said no problem, they'd order me two more. Those two had 8 and 11 lbs of force. Much more acceptable.

Now, here comes the strange part. There is one dealership in NE Florida that is completely state-of-the-art - completely clean, professional, very well-run, a service area that holds about 30 vehicles and is so clean that you could eat off the floor. From top to bottom, they do things the right way and they don't rip people off. I know because I've tested them with little things.

Anyway, I just got a new 06 Sport and wanted my tires swapped out. They did it, no problem, and from the moment I drove away had a completely annoying vibration. Long story short, I wasted three hours on Monday and three hours on Tuesday while they rebalanced the tires three times on the Hunter machine. Still had vibration and the master tech is telling me that is normal. Then he tells me the road is bumpy. I'm looking at him like he's from Mars. No way. I asked them to re-calibrate the machine, they said it's done every morning. Still had the vibration.

Took it to one of the lesser, crappy Toyota dealerships where they had the machine. They fixed the problem in 20 minutes and it rides as smooth as glass.

Long winded story, I know, but the moral is this - the Hunter is only as good as proper calibration.

 

[Toyboomer]

tire balancing

I understand the RFV 7600 balancer should be used but don't understand what the pounds of force mean. You say that over 15 lbs is unacceptable. Can you explain what that means and where is the 15 lbs exerted? How do you know if they calibrated it or not? Do you normally have to ask for the readout. I'm sure most consumers wouldn't know how to read it anyway. You bring up some good points on this topic. Fortunately my new Revos, mounted by this method, are running great.

I don't hear people speak of alignment much. Can this machine do that as well? I never worry about alignments unless I see some uneven wear. The tire shop with the GSP 7600 told me to rotate every 3,000 which seems excessive and I asked what happended to "every 5,000 mi". He said some of the blockier treads can begin to cup before 5,000 and that most people don't get them in before 5,000 anyway. The rotations are free so I believed his advice. Thanks for adding to this topic. Would like to hear more.

 

[coolpop]

From what I understand, "road force" in a tire is just a measurement or amount of unequal spots in a tire. No tire is completely round and variation-free (that is why you may hear about road force also being referred to as "force variation"). That being said, that is why tires need weights to balance them out - and different weights at that. Take a look at your tires. All four will, in all likelihood, have different weights on them.

The higher the road force, the more variation in the tire. The more variation, the more difficult it is to keep them vibration-free. That's why a properly calibrated 9700 machine is priceless. It shows the techs precisely how to match the high and low spots to minimize or eliminate the vibration. The 9700 should, in theory, reduce the amount of road force per tire to less than 10 lbs., which will balance out the variation in the tire, which in turn gives a smooth ride.

Hope that helps.

 

[Toyboomer]

tire balance

Thanks coolpop! That makes sense now. One thing I did find out from the tire dealer with the 9700 was that wheel weights may have to go on either/both sides of the wheel. Some memebers here have said to to ask your tire shop to put the wheel weights on the inside for cosmetic reasons. When I asked them to do this he explained that the road force balance may indicate weights be placed on either or both sides of a wheel. He obviously knew what he was talking about and I told him to put them where ever it was needed. I noticed there are weights on both sides of a least one on my wheels.

 

[Thai]

Links above are updated.

 

[crozhawk]

Brand new 18" TRD rims, took them to a local shop that had the balancer and the flange plate to get them installed ..........steering wheel shakes like all hell!

 

[coolpop]

Brand new 18" TRD rims, took them to a local shop that had the balancer and the flange plate to get them installed ..........steering wheel shakes like all hell!

Sorry to hear that. I know how annoying that is.

If you got new rims, it may not be the tires. On my 04 Runner, it turned out that two of my rims were slightly warped. They were replaced under warranty and the problem was solved.

Hope that helps.