Toyota Safety Sense for 4runner?

[Bumbo]

Chances are good you're not going to like the 6th gen :shocked:

Whats new?

3rd Genners feel the 4th is too big and complicated with electronics.
4th Genners feel the 5th lacks V8 power, has crap throttle response, and stuff I don't care to remember or list.
5th Genners will obviously dislike the 6th due to a plethora of reasons too.

It's just how it works...

 

[Godfr33]

Honestly anyone who puts down safely features is kidding themselves!

I work in a hospital and have been in a crash with my entire family onboard.

Do you really think your such a great driver that you can defer those features?

If your 4Runner was only used on the trail ok, how did you get there? I’m betting a public road.

If your so bad ass without safety features remove your seatbelts, safety glass, ABS, VSC, and all others! Because you won’t see me in the hospital for your repairs, we’ll never see you because you are dead!

TBH Mr. Toyoda said safety sense would be in all Toyota vehicles by 2018. Yet again Toyota lied because our beloved 4runners were left out purely for profit motives!

When we are cranking on your chest after you code from an accident, I’d bet 100% of people would’ve wished they had that extra TSS.

 

[epjfsa]

All of that betterment has also led to an increase in complacency. People now drive much faster and pay far less attention while doing so, that is a fact. While I prefer less complex systems, sadly, it is almost necessary now if you are driving among the herd.

Or, the same % of complacent and fast drivers exist today as did 20 years ago, but annual VMT went up over 30% in that time, so there's just a greater number of those drivers on the road at any one time than before.

I'd wager that distracted driving is becoming the dominating factor to road safety, not people who just want to get from A to B.

I prefer to drive my wagon and don't want or need a bunch of electronic BS to drive it for me. One of the reasons I love my wheels is it is free from the clutter of all this crap that seems so ubiquitous already in our nanny culture. Beginning to understand why some old people are so damn cranky...

This is a toxic problem in our culture, that we all assume we're good drivers. None of us are 100% failproof drivers, and it's entirely possible for any of us to cause a fatal crash no matter how hard we try to drive safely. That's because we're human and have flaws. These systems aren't nanny state, they're engineering out a human factor and they actually save lives. Automated emergency braking is at least 40% effective at preventing crashes that could very well end up in your or someone in your family being killed. Engineering out human factors is one major contributor to why we no longer live in mud shacks.

And the use of nanny state is just wrong here. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy cars, drive cars, or use these systems - we all have a choice to drive a car without such systems, take public transit, walk, etc. They aren't even mandated by the government (seriously). So who exactly is the nanny?

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

if it stops working you stop using it and get a service appointment at the dealership, i'm confused about your question

Really. You expect a dealership that cannot fix a tire wobble or properly change oil to do advanced diagnostics on electronics correctly. Not in my lifetime.

 

[J.F. Sebastian]

Or, the same % of complacent and fast drivers exist today as did 20 years ago, but annual VMT went up over 30% in that time, so there's just a greater number of those drivers on the road at any one time than before.

I'd wager that distracted driving is becoming the dominating factor to road safety, not people who just want to get from A to B.



This is a toxic problem in our culture, that we all assume we're good drivers. None of us are 100% failproof drivers, and it's entirely possible for any of us to cause a fatal crash no matter how hard we try to drive safely. That's because we're human and have flaws. These systems aren't nanny state, they're engineering out a human factor and they actually save lives. Automated emergency braking is at least 40% effective at preventing crashes that could very well end up in your or someone in your family being killed. Engineering out human factors is one major contributor to why we no longer live in mud shacks.

And the use of nanny state is just wrong here. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy cars, drive cars, or use these systems - we all have a choice to drive a car without such systems, take public transit, walk, etc. They aren't even mandated by the government (seriously). So who exactly is the nanny?

"Toxic"? Surprised you didn't used the word "problematic"...

"Engineering out a human factor" like proper and habitual real shoulder checks, driving cautiously and paying attention rather than depending on a light or a beeper just before it's too late, etc., etc? There's countless people on the road these days who shouldn't have ever passed a driving test and "tech" in cars only amplifies this incompetence.

You have yourself convinced this is a good thing evidently so enjoy your driving aids if you choose.

 

[1996_Valencia_Owen]

Not sure this is legit. I have a 2018. No 2018s have TSS, I think. So either this is a bad photoshop they forgot to put 2019 on, or they copied some sections of other-Toyota marketing materials to make their 4Runner ads.

 

[jhguth]

Really. You expect a dealership that cannot fix a tire wobble or properly change oil to do advanced diagnostics on electronics correctly. Not in my lifetime.

is this sarcasm? it's no more involved than any of the numerous other ECUs that have been in cars for decades now.

 

[jrandom]

Or, the same % of complacent and fast drivers exist today as did 20 years ago, but annual VMT went up over 30% in that time, so there's just a greater number of those drivers on the road at any one time than before.

I'd wager that distracted driving is becoming the dominating factor to road safety, not people who just want to get from A to B.

Hmm, percentage maybe, actually no, not here. Speed, as with most Western States, UT has speed limits of 80mph along quite a few stretches of rural interstate/freeway/highway. Suburban freeway speed limits of 70mph. Everyone drives 10 over knowing State Troopers rarely pull over AND it is an inexpensive moving violation. 25 years ago the speed limits were 55mph statewide, so most drove 65. So I know for a fact speeds have increased overall.

Yes, I agree, distracted driving is new DUI/DWI.

 

[Snickel Fritz]

I drove both a Prius and a RAV4 with TSS recently.

The Prius wasn't terrible in all aspects, because it had the advantage of electric motors to quickly recoup the speed lost during automatic braking. There was still lag thanks to the 'puter not believing that the car which changed lanes in front of me was actually going 1 mph faster than me... but it wasn't "terrible" at adaptive cruise control, I'll give it that much.

The effing RAV4 was a nightmare. I could not figure out how to adjust anything on the radar end, so it would by default register cars in adjacent lanes during sweeping curves, and cars far in the distance of my own lane that were even moving quite a bit faster. This meant that the RAV would drop speed suddenly by about 15 mph at least, then take over 10 seconds to regain the speed to the original setting *if it decided to do that at all*. I first discovered this while in fairly thick traffic during a nighttime downpour outside of Philly, and the damned thing almost caused an accident.

As for the lane departure warning, the RAV4's TSS had some kind of steering interference tied into it, the Prius may have had it but it could have been turned off. This addition meant that I got to hear annoying beeps whenever the "eye" decided that I was near a line, but would sometimes decide that my steering didn't need to work while on sweeping curves. Apparently, the "eye" misread something on the road surface and mistook it for the edge marker... and the times that I *did* change lanes without signalling (for testing, while alone on the highway at night) it only caught and warned me about 75% of the time.

Sure, maybe there are manufacturers/models with great safety features out there, but my TSS experiences made a huge impact in my decision to buy a dinosaur without any of them. I personally enjoy the drive itself, and prefer to use my own senses.

 

[epjfsa]

Hmm, percentage maybe, actually no, not here. Speed, as with most Western States, UT has speed limits of 80mph along quite a few stretches of rural interstate/freeway/highway. Suburban freeway speed limits of 70mph. Everyone drives 10 over knowing State Troopers rarely pull over AND it is an inexpensive moving violation. 25 years ago the speed limits were 55mph statewide, so most drove 65. So I know for a fact speeds have increased overall.

Yes, I agree, distracted driving is new DUI/DWI.

FWIW I mentioned speed in response to that post, and not making my own statement. Of course average speed has increased -- the context was (I assumed) people who speed/exceed the average speed of traffic to actually be dangerous.

 

[epjfsa]

"Toxic"? Surprised you didn't used the word "problematic"...

"Engineering out a human factor" like proper and habitual real shoulder checks, driving cautiously and paying attention rather than depending on a light or a beeper just before it's too late, etc., etc? There's countless people on the road these days who shouldn't have ever passed a driving test and "tech" in cars only amplifies this incompetence.

You have yourself convinced this is a good thing evidently so enjoy your driving aids if you choose.

I don't think I was very clear. Yes, you can preach the merits of personal responsibility, people being shitty/stupid/below average, and long-standing but clear problems with our society. At the end of the day, modern societies have been trying to fix each of those things for literal thousands of years. This has been done through culture, through laws, education, and -- wait for it -- engineering. The amazing thing about engineering is that it allows us to solve so many problems, including those which have huge obstacles like passing laws to require actual driving education and the enforcement of laws that aren't just money makers.

Do I want these technologies in my own car, as you accused? No, in fact I'm very indifferent. But at the end of the day, even the shitty or irresponsible drivers need to get to work (and I think we both agree that we want them to as well) which in this country means driving. Why not remove that hazard from YOUR day by making sure those people have these systems, and your only compromise are a pair of amber lights in your mirror and an annoying beeping if you drive shitty (though as you've proclaimed, you're a good driver, so I'm not sure the beeping will ever happen to you). I just don't see how these systems offend you so bad. You are in the minority of opinions on this technology. None of it is mandated by law, and automakers only do something if its what consumers are willing to buy or in meeting regulations. Since there are no regulations, then the majority of people buying cars must want it.

Hmm, percentage maybe, actually no, not here. Speed, as with most Western States, UT has speed limits of 80mph along quite a few stretches of rural interstate/freeway/highway. Suburban freeway speed limits of 70mph. Everyone drives 10 over knowing State Troopers rarely pull over AND it is an inexpensive moving violation. 25 years ago the speed limits were 55mph statewide, so most drove 65. So I know for a fact speeds have increased overall.

Yes, I agree, distracted driving is new DUI/DWI.

FWIW I mentioned speed in response to that post, and not making my own statement. Of course average speed has increased -- the context was (I assumed) people who speed/exceed the average speed of traffic to actually be dangerous.

 

[J.F. Sebastian]

I don't think I was very clear. Yes, you can preach the merits of personal responsibility, people being shitty/stupid/below average, and long-standing but clear problems with our society. At the end of the day, modern societies have been trying to fix each of those things for literal thousands of years. This has been done through culture, through laws, education, and -- wait for it -- engineering. The amazing thing about engineering is that it allows us to solve so many problems, including those which have huge obstacles like passing laws to require actual driving education and the enforcement of laws that aren't just money makers.

Do I want these technologies in my own car, as you accused? No, in fact I'm very indifferent. But at the end of the day, even the shitty or irresponsible drivers need to get to work (and I think we both agree that we want them to as well) which in this country means driving. Why not remove that hazard from YOUR day by making sure those people have these systems, and your only compromise are a pair of amber lights in your mirror and an annoying beeping if you drive shitty (though as you've proclaimed, you're a good driver, so I'm not sure the beeping will ever happen to you). I just don't see how these systems offend you so bad. You are in the minority of opinions on this technology. None of it is mandated by law, and automakers only do something if its what consumers are willing to buy or in meeting regulations. Since there are no regulations, then the majority of people buying cars must want it.



FWIW I mentioned speed in response to that post, and not making my own statement. Of course average speed has increased -- the context was (I assumed) people who speed/exceed the average speed of traffic to actually be dangerous.

Technology, and very recent tech, has made me wealthy. I like technology and it provides us a more comfortable life in many ways.

"Driving aids" are convenience crutches that drivers come to depend on and probably need eventually just to get from one place to another in one piece. Their cars are probably driving them rather than the correct way around, in many cases these days. Just watch the videos of people playing paddycake in their Teslas on autopilot while driving highway speeds next to a tractor trailer in a snowstorm. This is the kind of idiot that loves this kind of tech and Tesla should have it's own Darwin award for some of it's customers, dead or alive.

Driving aids are meant to reduce Darwinian Stresses on roads but I'd argue it actually increases the odds of a shitty driver not responding to their buzzers and lights fast enough, or not interpreting them properly within the required split second or two they need to not cock-up.

We could argue about this all day and arguing on the internet about this is like being in the Special Olympics, you know the punchline. You think you're safer with a world full of shitty drivers complacently depending on their buzzers and lights while they drive down the road texting with the stereo cranked, enjoy.

 

[epjfsa]

Technology, and very recent tech, has made me wealthy. I like technology and it provides us a more comfortable life in many ways.

"Driving aids" are convenience crutches that drivers come to depend on and probably need eventually just to get from one place to another in one piece. Their cars are probably driving them rather than the correct way around, in many cases these days. Just watch the videos of people playing paddycake in their Teslas on autopilot while driving highway speeds next to a tractor trailer in a snowstorm. This is the kind of idiot that loves this kind of tech and Tesla should have it's own Darwin award for some of it's customers, dead or alive.

Driving aids are meant to reduce Darwinian Stresses on roads but I'd argue it actually increases the odds of a shitty driver not responding to their buzzers and lights fast enough, or not interpreting them properly within the required split second or two they need to not cock-up.

We could argue about this all day and arguing on the internet about this is like being in the Special Olympics, you know the punchline. You think you're safer with a world full of shitty drivers complacently depending on their buzzers and lights while they drive down the road texting with the stereo cranked, enjoy.

Fortunately in 10 years, this whole discussion will be moot. The people who don't care about driving but still need to get around by car will be the first to embrace fully automated vehicles. And at least for the first years of AV growth (before VMT likely goes up), I'm hoping the roads might seem a little less crowded and a little more efficient for those of us driving ourselves.

 

[jrandom]

FWIW I mentioned speed in response to that post, and not making my own statement. Of course average speed has increased -- the context was (I assumed) people who speed/exceed the average speed of traffic to actually be dangerous.

Sure, I understand. It is not exactly what I meant. All drivers speed has increased and there are many more distractions in the cabin of nearly any vehicle. Complacent behaviour comes from seeing all of these features work and the overall outcomes, many more being survivable, whereas prior generations would have seen catastrophic results under the same circumstances. It is human nature to make self well being deterministic decisions. While we all believe we are good at it, only a few truly are.

Not all of those that exceed the flow of traffic are dangerous, although I do believe many more are now, even by percentage.

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

is this sarcasm? it's no more involved than any of the numerous other ECUs that have been in cars for decades now.

Sure, computers have been around for a very long time "helping" people solve problems. But a human has to be interested and knowledgeable simultaneously. There just are not many great technicians out there anymore.
Lots of below average ones exist though.

 

[jhguth]

i still can't tell if it's sarcasm or not

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

i still can't tell if it's sarcasm or not

No sarcasm here, just facts. Is there a reason I should trust anyone?

 

[epjfsa]

No sarcasm here, just facts. Is there a reason I should trust anyone?

Lets start with trusting the people who designed the electronics you used to type this message. Though how do you know that my response to you isn't a pure figment of your imagination or some cruel reality that someone else placed you in. Or maybe this forum and or the device in your hand seem real but may not be. Should you trust your own mind? Perhaps this is all entirely in your head, and you should be questioning every part of your reality. But how would you know that would be the appropriate action? If your mind were making up your whole perceived existence, that would include this forum, your post, and my response to you. If you're wrong, you're doubting everything about your reality just for the sake of doing so.

Or, I guess we could just acknowledge that's nonsense and trust experts who spend livelihoods studying subjects while peer-reviewing others doing the same for long enough until there's consensus that even you, if taking the appropriate steps with enough knowledge/resources/time, could verify using your own eyeballs and hands and brain. But those could be lying to you, too....

 

[Parabola]

To me part of the appeal is lack of these electronic nannies in 4R. If they only offered it with manual gearbox, it would be awesome.