Toytec TRD Pro Lift Bad For Off-roading?

[MaddoxPics]

I've been thinking about getting the Toytec 2" lift for the Pro, but from what I've been reading it's apparently not the best thing to do spacers for off-roading? Is this true? Some conflict and say if it's over 3" you don't want spacers.

Basically don't want to ruin the vehicle being I do take it offroad a lot and will continue to do so. Really don't want to have to get rid of the suspension, but if it's better for the long run then of course I'll do it.

Are there specifics to off-roading when it comes to kits like the Toyotec lift for the Pro that uses spacers? Will I be fine with it for off-roading, or should I look for a full replacement suspension setup?

I assume a true replacement would be smoother than the spacers would be and probably better, but do I risk hurting the car or anything if I go with the Toyotec Pro Lift being my vehicle sees as much dirt as it does pavement?

For those with the Toyotec Pro Lift kit. Anything you don't like about it?

Thanks

 

[shrub1]

Hey Maddox-
I had the Toytec 2 inch lift for a while and I felt it was fine off road. Now keep in mind I am not rock crawling or busting ass down fire roads at a high rate of speed. To be honest the only reason I dumped the aforementioned lift was because the 2+ inch forward rake was excessive in IMO and wanted coils overs to dial in the front end ride height.

 

[gundrted+t4r]

Any spacer lift on the front of any 4Runner is a bad idea in the long wrong. Yes ... it will lift the car and keep stock is feel. The bad part is messes up the shock function and there is a HIGH risk of damage or failure.

To really do a lift with the lowest risk to you, you could sell your TRDP shocks and cover most of the cost of 6112/5160 setup. Similar ride to your TRDP but the correct shocks for the correct application.

BILSTEIN - Race Consulting Agency - PARTS | KNOWLEDGE | PASSION


Take a look at this write up.

Slee - An overview of Toyota IFS Suspenison Lifts

Suspension Lift/Upgrade Types – Toyota IFS Coil Spring Suspensions

Spring Spacers

Spring spacers are an entry level component to achieve additional lift height, without addressing load carrying capacity of the suspension. Spacer lifts are not recommended for applications where additional lift is required due to the addition of heavier aftermarket components on the vehicle.

They are typically manufactured from aluminum, steel or urethane. There are two types of spacers, Pre-load spacers and Top-Out spacers.

Pre-load spacer installs between the coil spring and strut top plate. Installation requires the shock/spring (coil-over) assembly to be removed from the vehicle. Using a wall mounted strut compressor the factory assembly is disassembled and factory spring is further compressed allowing room for the spacer to be installed. The additional pre-load on the factory spring achieves a greater ride height.

There are a few concerns with this type of product. First is it relies on the factory suspension components (OE springs and shocks) which can be worn, damaged or is insufficient load carrying capacity for the application. Additionally, many original equipment shocks are borderline in controlling the factory springs. With the extra preload applied by the spacer the suspension lacks the ability to perform proper handling, control and ride quality.

Based on the factory bump stop locations, the spacers allow the factory coil spring to be over compressed and possibly put into coil bind. The available space for the coil spring between the coil seat and top plate is reduced by the spacer thickness. This results in the iner coil winding spacing to be less. Due to this reduced space, when the suspension cycles, the coil can be compressed until the coil windings touch. This process is called Coil bind . This can rapidly degrade the spring causing loss of height and possible failure.



Top out spacers install between the spring bucket (frame) and the top plate of the factory assembled spring/shock (Coil-over). This effectively lengthens the shocks (coil-over) assembly and increases the distance between the lower control arm and the frame, thus raising the vehicle.

With most if not all Toyota IFS coil suspensions the shock length limits the down travel of the suspension to protect other components such as ball joints, steering rod ends and CV joints/axles. Adding a Top out spacer extends the down travel or “droop” of the suspension. If extreme, it can severely reduce the life or cause catastrophic failure to these components.



Top out and pre-load spacer

Some companies utilize Top out spacers and Pre-load spacers together in the same kit to minimize the negative effects. In most cases the installation of spring spacers require modification to the factory spring top plate (or top out plate) making it costly to reverse the installation.

 

[Jono.ful]

.




MUST READ....... Be CAREFUL With spacer lifts!!!! - TTORA Forum


I suggest you read this all the way thru and come to your own decision. Personally, I have 0 complaints with my Toytec lift and I wheel my rig hard. Btw I've already promised to post any component failures directly caused by the spacers in this forum.

yep. go buy a $40k truck to play in the mud, then spend $100 to "upgrade" one of the most critical components rather than the $2k+ to do it properly. I see all kinds of full sized trucks locally with tens of thousands of dollars worth of lights, wheels, paint, sled decks etc and nothing but spacers on top of the coils. SMH

 

[eldude]

The issue with spacers is that it moves the shock down without changing its travel range. That allows the shock to be able to travel what it normally would plus the distance of the spacer. In the front that allows the CV angle to become too aggressive. The risk becomes even greater when you have aftermarket UCAs. In the rear it would allow it to possibly max out the shock.

It seems like most people are ok with these types of lift though since they likely never get into a place where one wheel reaches full droop. Either they're on road all the time or the off roading is mild enough not to have this happen.

I personally wouldn't change the pro suspension out. If I'm understanding the Toytec spacer correctly, it appears to be a coil seat spacer. This style wouldn't increase the droop length and cause the above mentioned issues. Instead, since its at the base of the coil it would act the same as adjusting a coil over upward, your down travel would be decreased. If you end up hearing clunking noises its the front end maxing out the down travel. Your CV angles should be alright though. If the TRDP shocks have more travel than stock, or as much as say 5100s then it wouldnt be any different than changing the height on a coil over, or adjusting the c-clip on the 5100s.

 

[CoMtn4Runner]

If you are planning on serious wheeling, don't go spacers. If you don't plan on doing a lot of off-road driving, go spacers.

 

[TEujunga]

Seems to me that Slee, despite being a highly respected vendor, is buying into a common misconception I've come to call "pre-load myth."

Once you install a coilover and the vehicle weight is resting on it, it doesn't matter where you put the spacer, whether you "pre-load" the coilover with the spacer inside or "top-out" the coilover with the spacer on top. The amount of spring compression under the weight of the vehicle remains the same either way. Therefore, both types of spacer lift impose exactly the same limitations on droop travel, and neither is more likely to coil-bind under compression than the other.

The confusion arises because of the differing amounts of "pre-load" that may be placed on a spring in an uncompressed coilover at full extension. Once the coilover is installed in the vehicle with the vehicle's weight resting on it, it doesn't "care" how much pre-load was placed on the spring for installation. It will compress to the same height either way. That's why more "pre-load" results in a lifted stance in the first place.

 

[macentyre]

Hey does anyone have any info on why the ABS on my 4runner activates at about 40mph around certain turns only when I turn right? Its super sketchy! It happened afetr I put my lift on. I want to disable it!! My ABS wires were not stretched. When I hold down the TRAC button for 5 seconds it says its disabled the traction control but it still does it randomly. Went into the dealer and had them do a zero point calibration but it didn't change a thing! If I pull the ABS fuse it has two other attached to the same fuse and so it throws everything out of wack! You can't seem to disable it by itself. Its attached to ABS 1, ABS 2, and Air Pump whatever that is. This is a HUGE safety issue!! I've almost crashed like twice because of this....it pulls you into oncoming traffic!! This feature SUCKS!!!!

 

[Concon40]

I have the toytec on my TRDP. I think it rides better both on and off road. I tend to stick to moderate off-road adventures. I stay out of deep mud and don't hammer over obstacles. I am just telling my experience with it and after about a year with them and I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[MaddoxPics]

The problem for me is I moderately offroad already, and if I were to lift it I'd want to do more. Probably just going to be smarter to go with a complete setup with Toyotec or Icon and have the peace of mind that I'm not ruining the vehicle.

Really would hate to get rid of what it has as that was one reason I bought it, but I'm sure I can end up selling that being it doesn't have a ton of miles on it.

 

[nb rob]

Hey does anyone have any info on why the ABS on my 4runner activates at about 40mph around certain turns only when I turn right? Its super sketchy! It happened afetr I put my lift on. I want to disable it!! My ABS wires were not stretched. When I hold down the TRAC button for 5 seconds it says its disabled the traction control but it still does it randomly. Went into the dealer and had them do a zero point calibration but it didn't change a thing! If I pull the ABS fuse it has two other attached to the same fuse and so it throws everything out of wack! You can't seem to disable it by itself. Its attached to ABS 1, ABS 2, and Air Pump whatever that is. This is a HUGE safety issue!! I've almost crashed like twice because of this....it pulls you into oncoming traffic!! This feature SUCKS!!!!

Check out "zero point calibration"

 

[Biggu]

Check out "zero point calibration"

Hey does anyone have any info on why the ABS on my 4runner activates at about 40mph around certain turns only when I turn right? Its super sketchy! It happened afetr I put my lift on. I want to disable it!! My ABS wires were not stretched. When I hold down the TRAC button for 5 seconds it says its disabled the traction control but it still does it randomly. Went into the dealer and had them do a zero point calibration but it didn't change a thing! If I pull the ABS fuse it has two other attached to the same fuse and so it throws everything out of wack! You can't seem to disable it by itself. Its attached to ABS 1, ABS 2, and Air Pump whatever that is. This is a HUGE safety issue!! I've almost crashed like twice because of this....it pulls you into oncoming traffic!! This feature SUCKS!!!!

it looks like he did.

 

[nb rob]

it looks like he did.

Oh shoot- sorry [MENTION=143336]macentyre[/MENTION]

I missed that entirely. Apologies

 

[b407driver]

The problem for me is I moderately offroad already, and if I were to lift it I'd want to do more. Probably just going to be smarter to go with a complete setup with Toyotec or Icon and have the peace of mind that I'm not ruining the vehicle.

Really would hate to get rid of what it has as that was one reason I bought it, but I'm sure I can end up selling that being it doesn't have a ton of miles on it.

Do some more research before you decide what to do. As someone alluded to above, changing the height using spring seat spacers is effectively the same as moving the c-clips on Bilsteins, or rotating the collar on incrementally-adjustable shocks (what many refer to as 'coilovers'). In the case of your TRD shocks, they are anecdotally considered to be nearly identical to a 6112/5160 setup, minus the additional adjustment settings (internal valving could be different, but I've not seen a tear-down of either). If you further assume that the extended/compressed heights are identical, then it's really no different than the after-market Bilsteins. If I cared enough I'd do that research to confirm it, but I've wheeled my setup to full droop and there are clearly no problems. You might get someone at Toytec on the phone who knows the TRD front specs (since they designed their spacers to work with it), and I've seen/heard of no instances of the lift kit directly causing any of the potential issues mentioned above.

For what it's worth, I used only the 1" spring seat spacer but didn't buy the kit, as I didn't want the top spacer. I got an additional 1" of lift, and I think it is perfect with 275s and T-13 springs (1.5") in back.

 

[Jono.ful]

If you have a Toytec pro kit for 100 bucks I'll take it off your hands. And yep, that's exactly what I did...I done gone and messed up my brand new rig with those junky half-assed engineered spacers..I suggest you do your research more thoroughly, unless you know something we don't about the TOYTEC PRO kit. Personally, id prefer to listen to the folks who have actually run these and similar kits from them HARD and for MANY miles without issue. Seems to be over 95% of the experiences I've read about so far.
.

Hey man, it's your rig. If you think your offroad suspension needs are better served by - at best - an aluminum hockey puck, or - at worst - a fancy piece of urethane than they would be by properly sized/rated springs and shocks, then you go right ahead.

 

[rasber3140]

Hey man, it's your rig. If you think your offroad suspension needs are better served by - at best - a an aluminum hockey puck, or - at worst - a fancy piece of urethane than they would be by properly sized/rated springs and shocks, then you go right ahead.

I think one important difference you are overlooking is that we are talking about a USA TRD Pro 4Runner and not a Canadian one. Typically the spacers and Toytec stuff is designed for the USA market or so I thought.

 

[Jono.ful]

I think one important difference you are overlooking is that we are talking about a USA TRD Pro 4Runner and not a Canadian one. Typically the spacers and Toytec stuff is designed for the USA market or so I thought.

yeah, that must be the problem. I bet you guys south of the border don't even have the option for the polar bear avoidance system :nerd:

.
BTW... Your frustration with your own ignorance is starting to show in your posts.

I learned a long time ago not to try and argue with stupid. best of luck with your spacers bud.

 

[Cymon]

[MENTION=164260]MaddoxPics[/MENTION] Check out the Dobinson's thread. They now have front lift coils that will fit the TRD Pro Suspension.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/238640-trd-pro-4runner-lifted-coil-options-dobinsons.html
[MENTION=148378]Dobinsons Mike[/MENTION] has been really helpful on this forum!

 

[sn0wrunner]

Personally, id prefer to listen to the folks who have actually run these and similar kits

Couldn't agree more. That's who the OP really needs to hear from. It's really too bad that anytime a thread on spacer lifts gets brought up a lot of people jump to bashing on them. All spacer kits are not created equal. I really don't like top plate spacers, or coil spacers by themselves, but I think Toytec really has a "best of both worlds" product by combining both a small top plate spacer and a small coil spacer. The quote above from Slee talks about this design briefly in the last paragraph. Toytec's design doesn't require any modification to the top plates and the suspension can easily be put back to stock configuration by removing the spacers and putting the factory top plate studs back in. Notice that's the only downside they have to say on this design. In the 10 years I've been on this forum and other Toyota forums I've never once heard of any sort of suspension failure from Toytec's spacer kits. Most people that have run them are really happy with the setup.

So my suggestion to the OP first would be to call Toytec and get some information from them on benefits of replacing the entire suspension vs installing spacers. Then ask them for the differences between their spacer design vs the competition. After that if the OP has decided to go the spacer route, I'd try to sift through all the posts on here and get a feel for what people are saying who are actually running the kit.

 

[Kamalani Mahie]

Do some more research before you decide what to do. As someone alluded to above, changing the height using spring seat spacers is effectively the same as moving the c-clips on Bilsteins, or rotating the collar on incrementally-adjustable shocks (what many refer to as 'coilovers'). In the case of your TRD shocks, they are anecdotally considered to be nearly identical to a 6112/5160 setup, minus the additional adjustment settings (internal valving could be different, but I've not seen a tear-down of either). If you further assume that the extended/compressed heights are identical, then it's really no different than the after-market Bilsteins. If I cared enough I'd do that research to confirm it, but I've wheeled my setup to full droop and there are clearly no problems. You might get someone at Toytec on the phone who knows the TRD front specs (since they designed their spacers to work with it), and I've seen/heard of no instances of the lift kit directly causing any of the potential issues mentioned above.

For what it's worth, I used only the 1" spring seat spacer but didn't buy the kit, as I didn't want the top spacer. I got an additional 1" of lift, and I think it is perfect with 275s and T-13 springs (1.5") in back.

How did you buy just the 1" spring seat spacers? And in your signature it says you got 2" of lift? Is that a mistake, or did you stack two of those on top of each other on each side in the front?