Trail/Off Road with KDSS to ‘19 Pro

[westtex]

I own a 2015 trail. I swapped out factory for Fox 2.0 front a rear. I also have Camburg UCA. But the ride was was night a day. I really felt the difference when Offroad hitting hard bumps and holes. The factory suspension parts had about 30,000 miles when I swapped. I would also imagine swapping to Fox 2.5 and King 2.5 would be far superior ride quality than my 2.0s.

 

[Offwidth]

It won't be better riding. It put the Bilstein setup on my trail with kdss and the pro suspension is better.

No, it is not. There is no magic. Those are just as good (same as previous years) shocks and KDSS works.

So what is the reason it is “better”? Actual physical reason? It certainly wallows around more.

 

[Offwidth]

Indeed....even more worthless

In what way? Do you put 305 on it? For 275 or stock 265 they will work better. You want narrowest rim your tires can fit for off-road.

 

[YellowSnow]

In what way? Do you put 305 on it? For 275 or stock 265 they will work better. You want narrowest rim your tires can fit for off-road.

If you have to ask....

 

[Offwidth]

If you have to ask....

Yes, I do. 17x7 wheels are better for our stock or +1 wheel size, especially 5lb per wheel lighter. One thing genuinely better about pro trim (and cost me $450 net to get, including spare to include in rotation) after Craigslisting takeoff. And someone picked stock rubber as well for $400. Couple hours of trouble.

 

[20164runner]

No, it is not. There is no magic. Those are just as good (same as previous years) shocks and KDSS works.

So what is the reason it is “better”? Actual physical reason? It certainly wallows around more.

I'm just stating my opinion. I had the trail bone stock and with the Bilstein pro setup. I own the 2019 pro and the fox setup on the pro is better. I honestly don't care what you say or think. I gave an actual response to the guys post unlike most of you.
Also since you want to know how they're better please read this thread. Fox vs Bilstein TRD Pro

"FOX and Bilstein both build great quality high end shocks. The shock model used in the TRD Pro is a high level consumer grade shock. Not really in the same category as the model of Fox used in the TRD Pro fox systems. The Fox shocks should be better at everything. Better fast. Better slow. And everything in between.

The reason is that they are multi stage internal bypass shocks, so they have dampening variability through out the range of travel. That opens up a much greater ability to tune for better performance. Better than almost any aftermarket shock for the 4runner."

I also never stated that kdss didn't work.

 

[Offwidth]

I'm just stating my opinion. I had the trail bone stock and with the Bilstein pro setup. I own the 2019 pro and the fox setup on the pro is better. I honestly don't care what you say or think. I gave an actual response to the guys post unlike most of you.
Also since you want to know how they're better please read this thread. Fox vs Bilstein TRD Pro

"FOX and Bilstein both build great quality high end shocks. The shock model used in the TRD Pro is a high level consumer grade shock. Not really in the same category as the model of Fox used in the TRD Pro fox systems. The Fox shocks should be better at everything. Better fast. Better slow. And everything in between.

The reason is that they are multi stage internal bypass shocks, so they have dampening variability through out the range of travel. That opens up a much greater ability to tune for better performance. Better than almost any aftermarket shock for the 4runner."

I also never stated that kdss didn't work.

Placebo effect and marketing. No valving in shocks can replace or replicate active sway bars. Pro wallows on a mountain road. Position sensitive damping do nothing for that. Even with shocks much better than this warmed over Fox.

6112 and KDSS, with a 1” rear lift with matching springs is undeniably better than 2019 pro on and off road, and just as reliable as stock ORP. At any cost - I can buy any car I want - just an objective evaluation.

 

[20164runner]

Placebo effect and marketing. No valving in shocks can replace or replicate active sway bars. Pro wallows on a mountain road. Position sensitive damping will do nothing for that.

6112 and KDSS, with a 1” rear lift with matching springs is undeniably better than 2019 pro on and off road, and just as reliable as stock ORP. At any cost - I can buy any car I want - just an objective evaluation.

Did you actually drive such a setup against 2019 Pro? I did.

Kdss is "active" under 12 MPH. 6112 don't hold a candle to the fox 2.5s on the pro. At any cost I can too. That's why I have the pro dawg. If you actually read the whole thread you'll see where I stated what I've done. You've tried to act like you have a bigger dick and you've lost. I had a 2016 trail with kdss. I changed the stock springs/coils for the Bilstein pros and the fox are better. Put those 6112s on a non kdss 4runner and you'll see the fox suspension is better.

 

[20164runner]

Placebo effect and marketing. No valving in shocks can replace or replicate active sway bars. Pro wallows on a mountain road. Position sensitive damping will do nothing for that.

6112 and KDSS, with a 1” rear lift with matching springs is undeniably better than 2019 pro on and off road, and just as reliable as stock ORP. At any cost - I can buy any car I want - just an objective evaluation.

Did you actually drive such a setup against 2019 Pro? I did.

Kdss is "active" under 12 MPH. 6112 don't hold a candle to the fox 2.5s on the pro. At any cost I can too. That's why I have the pro dawg. If you actually read the whole thread you'll see where I stated what I've done. You've tried to act like you have a bigger dick and you've lost. I had a 2016 trail with kdss. I changed the stock springs/coils for the Bilstein pros and the fox are better. Put those 6112s on a non kdss 4runner and you'll see the fox suspension is better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[YellowSnow]

We got it “Dawg”....no need to post it twice! And who could pass up that beautiful, retina burning, look at me I paid $55k for Fox shocks and some black emblem fanboy voodoo blue :sad:

 

[gakattack]

Just changing the suspension and tires on the Trail/Off Road would make it at least equally or better setup then the stock Pro depending on which aftermarket setup you get.

This is what I'm doing--2018 with KDSS, planning on installing the TRD Pro Bilstein suspension as soon as I can get my hands on one.

 

[Offwidth]

And that is why marketing works. People do not believe in engineering and physics but believe some mildly tricky valving can replace a sway bar.

No, 2019 Pro does not drive as well as KDSS with 6112 front /5100 rear with 1" lift front and rear either on or off road. That is a measurable fact - look for articulation demo video for KDSS on LC Prado - and it takes one corner to see this on the road. All the claims to the contrary is placebo effect.

 

[YellowSnow]

And that is why marketing works. People do not believe in engineering and physics but believe some mildly tricky valving can replace a sway bar.

No, 2019 Pro does not drive as well as KDSS with 6112 front /5100 rear with 1" lift front and rear either on or off road. That is a measurable fact - look for articulation demo video for KDSS on LC Prado - and it takes one corner to see this on the road. All the claims to the contrary is placebo effect.

Agreed...but those Pro fanboys will stop at nothing to justify their $55k+ purchase!

 

[aroslv]

The only reason to overpay for a PRO vs Trail/OR is if you are doing it for the paint color. Everything else is better and cheaper on the Trail/OR with the right mods.

There are tons of threads on here and the facebook groups where first thing PRO owners do is GUT the suspension. I would bet the number of people who buy a PRO and leave the suspension is well below 50%. Complete waste of money for most people.

 

[YellowSnow]

The only reason to overpay for a PRO vs Trail/OR is if you are doing it for the paint color. Everything else is better and cheaper on the Trail/OR with the right mods.

There are tons of threads on here and the facebook groups where first thing PRO owners do is GUT the suspension. I would bet the number of people who buy a PRO and leave the suspension is well below 50%. Complete waste of money for most people.

Yep! Which is another reason why they get clowned on...and it’s not just suspension. Wheels, tires, skids, bumpers, fog lights, racks.

 

[gtt99]

TRD PRO is like paying $50 for a hotdog.
TRD Off Road is like paying $2.00 for a steak.

PRO- horrible on the highway, no KDSS, no moonroof, no mirror turn signals, no softex.
OFF Road- fine on the highway, KDSS, moonroof, mirror turn signals, softex.

 

[MAST4R]

Has anyone gone from a Trail/TRDOR with KDSS to a ‘19 Pro? I really enjoy the flat cornering from the thick sway bar setup on my Trail but the shock and spring setup is a bit harsh and unsettled on broken pavement. The Fox dampers on the Pro sound intriguing as a jack of all trades setup. Does anyone have opinions on how the two suspensions compare? How are the on road manners of the Fox suspension? Does it smoothly roll over the broken pavement or transmit some harshness like my trail does? What about cornering? Does it stay relatively flat like the KDSS allows?

Disclosure: the suspension isn’t the only reason I would make the vehicle change. I like the voodoo blue and a few other things on the Pro. If the suspension is pretty good everywhere, that could be icing on the cake.

TIA


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This is a perfectly legitimate question. Why trash the thread?

The answer is actually very simple: when it comes to ride and handling, you want a GX. Why not just get a GX?

Short of the GX, the best solution would be to use coils and shocks to take care of ride quality concerns and let KDSS alone take care of handling. KDSS is not at all harsh on Lexus so there has to be a way.

As for Pro, it will never be a value proposition in terms of dollars the way a Rubicon is a value proposition over a Sport except for people who want their own choice of transfer case ($$$) and differentials ($$$) for regular extreme use. But some people like the color and/or the feel of exclusivity the Pro provides, however justified or not it may be.

Pro 1.0 offered an entry level, non-adjustable setup that could be purchased for $$$ less in a height adjustable version. Really, the special color was the only claim to glory.

Pro 2.0, however, is supposed to be offering top of the line performance setup. The people who have really tested it should let us know if reality meets hype. Then we need to see if those "OEM" Foxes last any longer between rebuilds than the aftermarket ones.

Whether a supposedly high performance, dependable OEM suspension justifies the monster markup over getting to a similar place for a lot less on one's own is in the eye of the beholder.

Live and let live.

 

[Quentin]

This is a perfectly legitimate question. Why trash the thread?

The answer is actually very simple: when it comes to ride and handling, you want a GX. Why not just get a GX?

Short of the GX, the best solution would be to use coils and shocks to take care of ride quality concerns and let KDSS alone take care of handling. KDSS is not at all harsh on Lexus so there has to be a way.

As for Pro, it will never be a value proposition in terms of dollars the way a Rubicon is a value proposition over a Sport except for people who want their own choice of transfer case ($$$) and differentials ($$$) for regular extreme use. But some people like the color and/or the feel of exclusivity the Pro provides, however justified or not it may be.

Pro 1.0 offered an entry level, non-adjustable setup that could be purchased for $$$ less in a height adjustable version. Really, the special color was the only claim to glory.

Pro 2.0, however, is supposed to be offering top of the line performance setup. The people who have really tested it should let us know if reality meets hype. Then we need to see if those "OEM" Foxes last any longer between rebuilds than the aftermarket ones.

Whether a supposedly high performance, dependable OEM suspension justifies the monster markup over getting to a similar place for a lot less on one's own is in the eye of the beholder.

Live and let live.

I really love the roll down rear window in the T4R. I tend to dislike the cargo space robbing 3rd row and the spindle grille doesn’t do the GX any favors aesthetically. The GX is a nice vehicle that theoretically ticks the boxes, but it just isn’t my cup of tea.

I should probably mention that I’d get a Pro at invoice just like my Trail edition. $10k to go from my Trail to a Pro and resetting the age and mileage isn’t totally unreasonable... particularly considering the resale value of the Pro 4Runners seems to be stronger than the other trims.

 

[jrandom]

I really love the roll down rear window in the T4R. I tend to dislike the cargo space robbing 3rd row and the spindle grille doesn’t do the GX any favors aesthetically. The GX is a nice vehicle that theoretically ticks the boxes, but it just isn’t my cup of tea.

I should probably mention that I’d get a Pro at invoice just like my Trail edition. $10k to go from my Trail to a Pro and resetting the age and mileage isn’t totally unreasonable... particularly considering the resale value of the Pro 4Runners seems to be stronger than the other trims.

Agreed the funky rear swing door and the awful bowtie grill... although I have seen a few GX's running custom plate bumpers and armor. Everything else though is lustful plush seats, V8, ect. (apart from the complexity and possible expense of repair of all the stacked systems)

 

[niadh0]

i traded in my beloved 2011 Trail /w KDSS for a 19 Pro. Also have a 2010 Limited that my wife drives. Always liked the handling of my Trail over the Limited. The 19 rides much smoother than the limited and the trail and still feels well supported at the core (not noticeable roll as i expected from the fox setup). to be honest i don't miss KDSS and i find the limited's ride much harsher now... almost like there is no buffer between the road and my seat. Got me to think that i should change x-res with a used Bilstein pro kit if i get my hands on them for less than $500.

so guys this is my opinion. I always wanted a factory pro since they launched it in 2015 in the USA but I could never get one in Canada. Missed out on the 17 cement as i didn't have enough money then. And then the 18 CavBlue was changing shade in different light conditions to a point it looked like baby blue in bright sunlight. So got the VooDoo and I seriously think that it is the hottest colour after Inferno if the Cement is the coolest. Completely personal preference here. The rest is all about the suspension (which is the biggest difference compared to the other factory trims) and I am glad I liked Fox. Much smoother overall and observes all the hardness of the road. Don't know how it compares to Bilstein. I don't understand why people try to compare KDSS with Fox - they are not the same thing. Yes you can compare the Ride quality and above is my experience.