TrailsOffroad.com has become a pay site!

[jhmoore]

I was online this morning looking for a nearby trail just to get out in this break between storms, and found that TrailsOffroad.com has become a pay site since I last used it a month ago or so.

Boooo!!!!

You can no longer see the full set of waypoints or connecting trails, and while I haven't looked at one in detail yet, the GPX downloads now have the word "free_" at the front of the filenames, so odds are they aren't that useful.

I may well quit my griping and pay the fee, but why does everything good need to be ruined??

 

[4runnerfiend]

I was online this morning looking for a nearby trail just to get out in this break between storms, and found that TrailsOffroad.com has become a pay site since I last used it a month ago or so.

Boooo!!!!

You can no longer see the full set of waypoints or connecting trails, and while I haven't looked at one in detail yet, the GPX downloads now have the word "free_" at the front of the filenames, so odds are they aren't that useful.

I may well quit my griping and pay the fee, but why does everything good need to be ruined??

I saw that last week also. So LAMO!

 

[emupoacher]

I was online this morning looking for a nearby trail just to get out in this break between storms, and found that TrailsOffroad.com has become a pay site since I last used it a month ago or so.

Boooo!!!!

You can no longer see the full set of waypoints or connecting trails, and while I haven't looked at one in detail yet, the GPX downloads now have the word "free_" at the front of the filenames, so odds are they aren't that useful.

I may well quit my griping and pay the fee, but why does everything good need to be ruined??

I feel the same way about Gaia GPS ... I paid for the "pro" version a few years ago and this year they've updated to a premium subscription model. I still find the app incredibly useful and one of the best GPS apps out there but man if it doesn't feel like everyone is trying to nickel and dime me with subscription fees.

 

[85straight]

Saw that coming from a mile away. The amount of info on that site is crazy, no way could someone pay for all that out of pocket and not eventually start needing money to keep it going. So in anticipation of that I downloaded almost every trail I could think of ahead of time.
The yearly subscription is only $25 so if you are gonna use that site often it’s not that bad

 

[jhmoore]

So in anticipation of that I downloaded almost every trail I could think of ahead of time.

Oh, dang you!!

Wish I'd done that....

 

[2112 R]

Saw that coming from a mile away. The amount of info on that site is crazy, no way could someone pay for all that out of pocket and not eventually start needing money to keep it going. So in anticipation of that I downloaded almost every trail I could think of ahead of time.
The yearly subscription is only $25 so if you are gonna use that site often it’s not that bad

This is pretty accurate. From a business and cost perspective if they need to break even on hosting and storage costs the options for start up web sites is pretty limited:

• Charge Subscriptions
• Request Donations (requires high volume traffic to generate consistent revenue)
• Sell User Data (Knock Knock... Facebook calling)
• Sell Banner add space on the Web Site
• Get a high profile corporate sponsor to take over the site

So for sites like Trails Off Road and apps like Gia which require not just maintenance, server hosting fees and storage, they have a user base which needs regular updates to keep the app and sites relevant. Which all has a cost.

It sucks, but when I look at the pile of paper maps I have which were $8 or more per map, a yearly fee for regular updates isn't all that bad, and we're lacking good detailed trail info sources as is.

 

[grave]

This is pretty accurate. From a business and cost perspective if they need to break even on hosting and storage costs the options for start up web sites is pretty limited:

• Charge Subscriptions
• Request Donations (requires high volume traffic to generate consistent revenue)
• Sell User Data (Knock Knock... Facebook calling)
• Sell Banner add space on the Web Site
• Get a high profile corporate sponsor to take over the site

So for sites like Trails Off Road and apps like Gia which require not just maintenance, server hosting fees and storage, they have a user base which needs regular updates to keep the app and sites relevant. Which all has a cost.

It sucks, but when I look at the pile of paper maps I have which were $8 or more per map, a yearly fee for regular updates isn't all that bad, and we're lacking good detailed trail info sources as is.

this right here. not everything in this app-based, internet-dependent world can be free. if you rely so heavily on a service, ~$20 per year is not much to pay for it.

 

[BrianSD_42]

For one thing I've never been on it before and now I can't even look up trails etc without getting a wall. Word of mouth and legacy users are never enough to sustain a business in the long term in a successful way.

They should have implemented some kind of WALL that allows you do see the whole site but when you click into the trail you can only see first 1/3 of the page details, kind of like Wall Street Journal. Or they should let you see all the content pages with text etc and low res header pictures etc but once the user clicks to expand the map to a usable resolution with full details it is blocked by a paywall. Or give you the content but hold back detailed maps + GPX files. That is what they should have done.

When someone gets to a site like this with a certain trail in mind, if the content is blocked they go somewhere else and never look back. The person likely already knows the trail name, he will just find it somewhere else. Lots of lost opportunity here and I don't expect them to be very successful.

:redbrick:

 

[grave]

i can still see most of the page for each trail, but if i want to see more waypoints or any of that BS it just takes me to the join page. meh. i'd rather plot my own shit out on google maps or gaia.

 

[boyfester]

I just signed up on the TrailsOffroad.com page as a free user and have full access on downloading all GPX tracks of every trail.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Your experience is very different then mine, probably because you created an account. I just now revisited the site. Acting as a new user (not logged in) I was able to type in a search, chose Big Bear. One trail came up, I clicked it and here if what happened. I could see amount of text and as soon as I scrolled down I was blocked.

Now imagine I'm new to this site. Why why would I ever pay them. I can't even see the value before being blocked. Maybe it is the fact that I'm on Chrome in Android but that is my experience. It's simple and disappointing. That I why I said they will fail or at a minimum suffer lost opportunities as new users just click to the next site instead.

Pictures attached.
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[boyfester]

I see what you mean. I did the same as you and didn't log in. Why they only have one trail showing up when you type in "Big Bear" is strange. I'm sure with user experiences such as your's, this is something that can be improved. Because, when you view the San Bernardino area by selecting the California map and zooming in, you get a ton of Big Bear area trails (see below):




For my experience just now, on my Windows PC at home, I selected "California" from the drop down menu.



You get a huge map of California showing a ton of trails. Some of the trails have a gray dot, orange dot, and blue dot.



You cannot see what the colored dots are by hovering over them. You have to select each one. Gray dots allow free access. Blue dots allow the user to view what an All Access Trail looks like. Orange dots are blocked All Access Trails.

Gray Dot below



Gray dot opened



Blue dot clicked



Orange dot clicked. This is strange that you don't see the trail name. It just says "All Access Trail".



But, in all cases, when you try to scroll down further to see what the Trail Guide gives you, you get a "Whoops, you forgot to log in" screen.



I see what you mean. That is frustrating. I'm going to talk to them and see what can be done about that. I've spoken to quite a few of them on the trail as they have many guys down here in So Cal that are in Big Bear frequently. They have always been very responsive.

 

[mtbjohn42]

Hi everyone,

I am the developer for Trails Offroad. I just came here to address anyones concerns or questions if there are any.

Please feel free to reach out via PM or on this forum post to me and I will respond to them in a timely fashion.

Thank you and have a great day!

John @ Trails Offroad

 

[BrianSD_42]

Hi,

My suggestion is to change the way your website operates so that new users to the site can get a better idea of the actual value before they hit the paywall.

If I came across this site from a recommendation or a link I don't think I would go through with registering with my email simply to see what is there. I would be willing to register to unlock certain features but not to just see the trail name, the low resolution map or the text. Allow users to see and scroll through all web pages then require registration upon download, or maybe after 2 minutes per page or something.

This is simply my opinion but some A / B testing, asking a family member to go check it out as an unregistered user, look up a trail and tell you what they think ... I can't imagine them not being frustrated with a paywall that prevents you from even reading anything about what the trail is.

This is all constructive criticism. Its a large market, there is lots of competition out there. I think your paywall is a bit too harsh and it will punish the site in the long run.

 

[mtbjohn42]

Hi,

My suggestion is to change the way your website operates so that new users to the site can get a better idea of the actual value before they hit the paywall.

If I came across this site from a recommendation or a link I don't think I would go through with registering with my email simply to see what is there. I would be willing to register to unlock certain features but not to just see the trail name, the low resolution map or the text. Allow users to see and scroll through all web pages then require registration upon download, or maybe after 2 minutes per page or something.

This is simply my opinion but some A / B testing, asking a family member to go check it out as an unregistered user, look up a trail and tell you what they think ... I can't imagine them not being frustrated with a paywall that prevents you from even reading anything about what the trail is.

This is all constructive criticism. Its a large market, there is lots of competition out there. I think your paywall is a bit too harsh and it will punish the site in the long run.

Hi Brian,

We understand peoples concerns with the log in/signup modal. The issue is, we cannot present any information to a user unless they have become a member, and checked off on our Terms of Service. We do this to legally protect ourselves. We understand that this may be a negative user experience, but we cannot afford a lawsuit for someone to run one of our trails and blame us if they become hurt/killed using our information.

We try to use the Map/Search/State pages to give brief examples of what the site has to offer (highlights and small bits of info).

On a different vein, if anyone wants to see what the full site has to offer, we have Featured Trails. Some examples are Black Bear Pass and The Rubicon Trail. These trails (once you have signed up), offer the user the full experience of the rest of the site. You can get all the detail, see all the waypoints and get the full GPX download on these trails.

Thank you very much for your feedback Brian. It is much appreciated!

 

[mtbjohn42]

I am not on here a lot, but if anyone on here needs to contact us for any reason, please leave us a feedback. We will have an answer usually within 2 hours (unless we are out wheeling!).

Thanks!

Give Us Your Feedback - Trails Offroad

 

[BrianSD_42]

I think you should probably get some different legal representation or at a minimum a second opinion. It doesn't add up to me. Websites in the US are not subject to lawsuits like you describe. The trails, well at least all the ones I would assume you'll publish are public Access trails and already documented. In most cases the US government owns the trails and they've already published maps.

I am only trying to help here. I don't think that's a very valid argument though. For instance California has what are called Anti-SLAP laws in place that for the most part make suing a website for publishing public information unwinnable.
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