Tranny Dipstick...I don't get it?

[Guerini]

I have a 2004 V6 with an "un-sealed tranny". I did a drain/fill and can't get the level to read correctly.

First of all, the COLD range is lower on the dipstick and the HOT range is higher on the dipstick. Seems backwards to me...

Anyway, when the fluid is cold, the level shows well above the COLD and slightly above the HOT range. With the tranny hot, the level drops somewhat and shows below the HOT range and above the COLD range.

I can't figure out WTH is going on. Any ideas?

It almost seems like the dipstick is mislabeled with the HOT and COLD reversed.

BTW, I've owned the truck since new.

 

[General Kornilov]

Add enough fluid so that the dipstick shows in the full range after the car has been running to temp and is sitting on level ground.

 

[Guerini]

Add enough fluid so that the dipstick shows in the full range after the car has been running to temp and is sitting on level ground.

Even if that means it will show WAY above the cool range when it's cool?

 

[neal0124]

Are you checking the fluid level while the engine is running and in park? The manual says to park the vehicle on level ground after its at operating temp, shift it from park down through all the gears into first then back up into park and then pull the dipstick.

 

[Guerini]

Are you checking the fluid level while the engine is running and in park? The manual says to park the vehicle on level ground after its at operating temp, shift it from park down through all the gears into first then back up into park and then pull the dipstick.

Yup.

I ran it about 40 miles, pulled into my level garage and shifted thru R-N-D and back to P. Left the engine running and pulled the dipstick, wiped it down, reinserted it. It shows below HOT range and above COLD range, almost right in the middle of the no-mans land between the two.

I don't understand why the cold range is lower than the hot range. Shouldn't the cold range be higher up the dipstick to compensate for the fluid returning to the sump when it cools?

 

[RonJR]

Sounds like you might be confusing the COLD reading with measuring with the engine OFF. The engine should always be running when checking the transmission fluid, so the drainback from the torque converter into the sump isn't an issue. The only difference between cold and hot is the expansion of the fluid as it gets warmer. Thus the higher level on the dipstick when the fluid is hot.

As said, warm up the fluid, park on level ground, and pull the dipstick with the engine running in neutral. Should show in the HOT range. Ignore the level when the engine is off. That's not a valid measurement configuration.

 

[Guerini]

Much appreciated.

I'll check it again as suggested.

Thanks.

 

[Guerini]

I did as suggested (drove a few miles, shifted thru all gears and pulled the dipstick while engine was running on level surface) the level is showing below the HOT range. I'm off to Toyota to get a few more quarts of T-IV. Thanks.

 

[General Kornilov]

I did as suggested (drove a few miles, shifted thru all gears and pulled the dipstick while engine was running on level surface) the level is showing below the HOT range. I'm off to Toyota to get a few more quarts of T-IV. Thanks.

Hopefully youre not quartS low. The volume for the tranny is just over 4 quarts. Hopefully a fraction of a quart will get you there.

 

[Bumbo]

Hopefully youre not quartS low. The volume for the tranny is just over 4 quarts. Hopefully a fraction of a quart will get you there.

The drain and fill is just over 4 quarts... but the Trans / TQ can hold more in total.

but I agree... wont take a lot more to level out that stick. Easy to overfill.

 

[AuSeeker]

Hopefully youre not quartS low. The volume for the tranny is just over 4 quarts. Hopefully a fraction of a quart will get you there.

If he's just a bit low it won't take even a quart to get it up to full, if he's closer to the full mark than the low mark he's good, if he were quarts low it wouldn't even be on the dipstick!!

It's better to be a bit under the full mark than it is to be above the full mark, auto transmissions don't do well over filled, a tiny bit over filled isn't very bad, like 1/8" over full but go more than that and it's not good.

 

[Supersonic]

One thing on overfill;
And according to the https://lucasoil.com/products/trans...-oil-automatic-transmission-fluid-conditioner 1 bottle overfill won't be harmful here's the print on the back of the bottle, https://lucasoil.com/media/k2/galleries/336/zhd-automatic-trans-fluid-conditioner.jpg and that's 20 ounces. Obviously Lucas is confident in their product. On 2005 V6 4Runner I just added 2/3 the bottle, but on my smaller 2005 Matrix I did siphon out 20 ounces before adding to it.

The other is after you've checked your dipstick and verified proper level with engine running, also check and get to know where the level is when engine is off and cold, like before starting it in the morning. Did this on the old Carolla's and it was about ~1/4 inch above the hot mark.

And just to clarify on the 4Runner, I never did the proper bring to temperature drain off to level, I only replaced the volume extracted after verifying it was approximately what several other sources reported and the valve body removal procedure refill amount, which as I understand is one more layer than replacing the filter, so comparable volume of fluid ~4.3.

References for valve body removal, though they don't match, one say's it's only A750E but being it's the FJ Cruiser I think it's same configuration, never found specific reference for the 4Runner, but these are similar to what other reported have been drained out for filter change;

Tundra
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (A750E, A750F)
Page 9 here, https://mugga.net/Manuals/Tundra/Automatic Transmission.pdf
Transmission valve body removal
3.9 L (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp qts)

2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser
A750E AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
and 1st page here;
http://purefjcruiser.com/docs/2007 ...ion/Automatic Transmission Fluid/01600210.pdf
Transmission valve body removal
4.3 liters (4.54 US qts, 3.78 lmp.qts)

 

[TechWrench]

One thing on overfill;
And according to the https://lucasoil.com/products/trans...-oil-automatic-transmission-fluid-conditioner 1 bottle overfill won't be harmful here's the print on the back of the bottle, https://lucasoil.com/media/k2/galleries/336/zhd-automatic-trans-fluid-conditioner.jpg and that's 20 ounces. Obviously Lucas is confident in their product. On 2005 V6 4Runner I just added 2/3 the bottle, but on my smaller 2005 Matrix I did siphon out 20 ounces before adding to it.

The other is after you've checked your dipstick and verified proper level with engine running, also check and get to know where the level is when engine is off and cold, like before starting it in the morning. Did this on the old Carolla's and it was about ~1/4 inch above the hot mark.

And just to clarify on the 4Runner, I never did the proper bring to temperature drain off to level, I only replaced the volume extracted after verifying it was approximately what several other sources reported and the valve body removal procedure refill amount, which as I understand is one more layer than replacing the filter, so comparable volume of fluid ~4.3.

References for valve body removal, though they don't match, one say's it's only A750E but being it's the FJ Cruiser I think it's same configuration, never found specific reference for the 4Runner, but these are similar to what other reported have been drained out for filter change;

Tundra
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (A750E, A750F)
Page 9 here, https://mugga.net/Manuals/Tundra/Automatic Transmission.pdf
Transmission valve body removal
3.9 L (4.12 US qts, 3.43 Imp qts)

2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser
A750E AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
and 1st page here;
http://purefjcruiser.com/docs/2007 ...ion/Automatic Transmission Fluid/01600210.pdf
Transmission valve body removal
4.3 liters (4.54 US qts, 3.78 lmp.qts)

Just a thought or two on your info posted. The reason for not overfilling a transmission has nothing to do with any additives in the fluid. It has to do with the actual fluid level in the transmission in relation to the internal components. If the fluid level get too high, and comes into direct contact with the rotating parts, the fluid may be whipped up and create an air bubble
froth in the fluid. This froth will adversely affect how the fluid is pulled into the pump assy., and could change the operating pressures the pump is designed to create. This is why the level is recommended to be a bit low, rather than too high.

As for removing the valve body, just to gain a bit more fluid drained, is IMHO, not really worth the effort. The majority of the fluid in an automatic transmission is held in the torque converter, and it is designed to not drain back into the transmission, under normal circumstances, even when standing overnight. Removing the valve body will not allow the convertor to drain because the front pump assy., sends the fluid directly to the converter when the engine starts turning the pump, and there is a check valve in the pump that restricts the fluid from flowing back from the converter. The only two methods of getting a significant amount of the 'old' fluid changed is either flushing the unit, using the cooling lines to extract the old fluid and add the new, or multiple drain and refill cycles.

 

[Supersonic]

Thanks for adding that, it is a good explanation of the too much fluid, and to be careful with adding a transmission fluid conditioner.

I should clarify that I was using the valve body removal only as a comparison to fluid volume replacement when dropping the pan and changing the filter. I looked into the procedure a couple of days before changing the fluid/filter and decided it would be close enough to be confident of proper fluid volume.

I am adding to this explanation so other who are not going to use the fill tube method can have data to properly explain how to work through servicing a transmission and changing out the filter. I think the flush with no filter change is fine for a 20 - 40k service if the filter has been changed once by 60k, but never changing the filter may have consequences that get very expensive.
WIX Filters - Heavy Duty Transmission Filters - Products Information

Contaminants can enter your transmission fluid system in the manufacturing process. They can also enter the transmission through the vent, or through the dipstick and fill tube during fluid level checking/filling. Most of the time, however, contaminants are the result of normal wear. These contaminants consist of metal chips and flakes from gears and bushings and fine fibrous material from clutch facings.

WIX transmission filters protect transmissions against contaminants in the transmission fluid system. Proper filtration helps improve transmission life by minimizing wear and preventing sticking and scoring of sensitive shift control valves. In the event of a part failure, the filter also guards against secondary damage to other parts and thus helps to minimize repair costs.

Some folks may need to see through the drain tube method for their own piece of mind, me I'm fine with volume replacement, though still wish I had a dipstick.

As for me using the fill tube and bringing the transmission up to a certain temperature, I skipped that step, and why, it's probably got it's variance too and my method wouldn't be any further off on a low or high level parameter. Just looking at the 2 PDF links and they don't agree on the refill level after the same procedure. That's why I also looked into the volume others reported measuring when doing drain and fills and when dropping the pan and changing the filter and observed my own.

The valve body is 1 layer beyond the filter and accessed by dropping the pan without removing the transmission, page 37 for reference here;

VALVE BODY ASSEMBLY
ON-VEHICLE REPAIR
https://mugga.net/Manuals/Tundra/Automatic Transmission.pdf

 

[AuSeeker]

Thanks for adding that, it is a good explanation of the too much fluid, and to be careful with adding a transmission fluid conditioner.

I should clarify that I was using the valve body removal only as a comparison to fluid volume replacement when dropping the pan and changing the filter. I looked into the procedure a couple of days before changing the fluid/filter and decided it would be close enough to be confident of proper fluid volume.

I am adding to this explanation so other who are not going to use the fill tube method can have data to properly explain how to work through servicing a transmission and changing out the filter. I think the flush with no filter change is fine for a 20 - 40k service if the filter has been changed once by 60k, but never changing the filter may have consequences that get very expensive.
WIX Filters - Heavy Duty Transmission Filters - Products Information


Some folks may need to see through the drain tube method for their own piece of mind, me I'm fine with volume replacement, though still wish I had a dipstick.

As for me using the fill tube and bringing the transmission up to a certain temperature, I skipped that step, and why, it's probably got it's variance too and my method wouldn't be any further off on a low or high level parameter. Just looking at the 2 PDF links and they don't agree on the refill level after the same procedure. That's why I also looked into the volume others reported measuring when doing drain and fills and when dropping the pan and changing the filter and observed my own.

The valve body is 1 layer beyond the filter and accessed by dropping the pan without removing the transmission, page 37 for reference here;

VALVE BODY ASSEMBLY
ON-VEHICLE REPAIR
https://mugga.net/Manuals/Tundra/Automatic Transmission.pdf

I have a major issue with....replacing the same amount you drain out...and would be very careful mentioning it here on the forum should others follow that lead and possibly damaging their transmission, without either checking for the proper level before and or after how would you know the level was correct before you drain the transmission!! :faint:

 

[Supersonic]

Understand your point, that's why I referenced where one would find similar results to compare. Suppose if you drained out only 3.5 quarts and seen everything else referenced ~4+ quarts depending on whether you've done the drain and fill or pan and filter, it should be simple to conclude your level was too low.

Shouldn't be a problem, many here done the drain and fill without checking, that's where I got that volume from and mine was ~4 quarts like others, and ~4.3 quarts is where I averaged the 2 PDF's I referenced plus the others reporting draining the same amount, and mine was that ~4.3 quarts. They're all pointing to the same volume amount.

On the other hand, sticking pins in your OBD terminals could be dangerous too, and stripping out the fill tube drain plug is another hazard. I think the best alternative to to look at volumes.