Tranny Fluid Question

I followed these instructions but decided to simply drain and fill only and then skip to Step #39 to flush the rest of the system with all new fluid. Total of 16 quarts.

I used Valvoline Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF. Maxlife Dex/Merc is fully synthetic. The old Toyota fluid I removed had no more than 30k miles on it and came out pretty clean. The shifts with Maxlife ATF are definitely quicker and smoother than the old fluid yet still feels firm. The old fluid was always very firm shifting which is not a bad thing as it probably did not have that many friction modifiers in it to make the clutch engagements slippery and smooth which tends to cause more clutch wear.

After 4k miles with the Maxlife Dex/Merc on the 4Runner, I would definitely recommend it for anyone looking for a good synthetic that won't break the bank. I also did a Maxlife ATF 3 Quart drain and fill in my mother's '99 Accord 2.3 liter inline-4 a few weeks ago to replace the old black/ Honda Z1. Needless to say, it firmed things up in significantly in that car as well with 139k miles on odometer. The short lived Honda Z1 ATF is notorious for putting too many modifiers into their fluid to create seemless shifting yet more transmission wear and reduced gear holding torque.

If I were to do it all over, I would have used Redline D4 ATF instead. From my research on BITOG forums, Redline ATF uses some of the highest quality synthetic base stock in their ATF fluid which can pretty much last the lifetime of a transmission. The downside is that it cost between $9.50-$12 per quart. I know Amsoil, Maxlife Dex/Merc, and Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF are also all great choices as well in the synthetic department.

I'm running a combination of 66% Redline Racing (Type-F - no modifiers)/ 33% Redline D4 in my '05 TL and absolutely love how it has brought my tranmission to life. Shifts are faster and gear holding torque feels like a manual transmission. I can spin tires in 1st and into 2nd gear at WOT. With the aged factory Z1, I could barely spin the tires into first gear let along 2nd.
 
Last edited:
Yesterday, I checked my tranny fluid and it was red. Looked very good. I'm at 166k now. When should I have it change again?

Honda/Acura had some faulty trannies in the late '90s and early '00s. I have an '03 Acura TL that had a slight shudder between certain gears when I bought it a couple of years ago with 100K miles on it.

Yeah man you should see the Honda/Acura forums. This seems like a huge problem with Honda trannys. The 03-04 V6 Accords and 04-05 Acura TL's still had the tranny problems. However, I think Honda did issue a recall for the Accord in 2003. I hear its a gamble to get a pre 2005 Honda/Acura V6 with over 100k miles because the trannys tend to go out at around 125k miles no matter how they were maintained.
 
Last edited:
Yesterday, I checked my tranny fluid and it was red. Looked very good. I'm at 166k now. When should I have it change again?

So you don't know the last time that fluid has been drain/filled or flushed between 90k-166k, correct? It wouldn't hurt anything to just simply drain and fill the pan with 4-5 quarts of new ATF if it still looks red and smells fine. There's a chance that someone has already swapped over to a universal synthetic like Maxlife/Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF already which pretty much stays red forever since the fluid doesn't break down like non-synthetic ATF does.

Yeah man you should see the Honda/Acura forums. This seems like a huge problem with Honda trannys. The 03-04 V6 Accords and 04-05 Acura TL's still had the tranny problems. However, I think Honda did issue a recall for the Accord in 2003. I hear its a gamble to get a pre 2005 Honda/Acura V6 with over 100k miles because the trannys tend to go out at around 125k miles no matter how they were maintained.

Worst Honda/Acura transmissions were the 5-speed slush boxes from the 00-03 3.2TL, 99-04 Odyssey and 01-06 MDX. The 00-03 3.2TL had a recall to add an oil cooling jet line into the transmission on the 3rd gear clutch because it could potentially overheat.

I sure hope the 2004-2005 TL (3rd Gen) TL doesn't have as many failures as you say...:dammit: - While doing my 3x3 drain and fill at 90k, I also switched out the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches as part of my 'routine' maintenance to avoid possible issues. I know the base transmission was updated slightly for 2006+ models while the 07-08 TL-S (3.5) got the RL Transmission.
 
Yesterday, I checked my tranny fluid and it was red. Looked very good. I'm at 166k now. When should I have it change again?

I'm no expert on T4R trannies, but they seem pretty durable from what I have read. For a high-mileage vehicle, I would suggest doing a drain/refill every 25K miles, or every two years.

Yeah man you should see the Honda/Acura forums. This seems like a huge problem with Honda trannys. The 03-04 V6 Accords and 04-05 Acura TL's still had the tranny problems. However, I think Honda did issue a recall for the Accord in 2003. I hear its a gamble to get a pre 2005 Honda/Acura V6 with over 100k miles because the trannys tend to go out at around 125k miles no matter how they were maintained.

I learned quite a bit from those Honda/Acrua forums. There was a tranny recall in those years. My Acura TL tranny had an oil jet kit added which basically provides a constant spray of fluid to the problem gear...or something like that. So far, so good!

Forums like this are great for sharing/learning info. Whenever I get a vehicle, looking for an active forum is one of the first things I do! Thanks to all who actively participate and share!
 
So you don't know the last time that fluid has been drain/filled or flushed between 90k-166k, correct? It wouldn't hurt anything to just simply drain and fill the pan with 4-5 quarts of new ATF if it still looks red and smells fine. There's a chance that someone has already swapped over to a universal synthetic like Maxlife/Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF already which pretty much stays red forever since the fluid doesn't break down like non-synthetic ATF does.



Worst Honda/Acura transmissions were the 5-speed slush boxes from the 00-03 3.2TL, 99-04 Odyssey and 01-06 MDX. The 00-03 3.2TL had a recall to add an oil cooling jet line into the transmission on the 3rd gear clutch because it could potentially overheat.

I sure hope the 2004-2005 TL (3rd Gen) TL doesn't have as many failures as you say...:dammit: - While doing my 3x3 drain and fill at 90k, I also switched out the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches as part of my 'routine' maintenance to avoid possible issues. I know the base transmission was updated slightly for 2006+ models while the 07-08 TL-S (3.5) got the RL Transmission.

I'm still learning about our trucks so please forgive me if I sound a little ignorant. But, if it stays red forever and doesn't break down, does that mean that particular tranny fluid lasts forever? Also, is it best for our transmissions to only take Toyota brand tranny fluid? Cuz I know Honda requires their transmissions to be changed with only their fluid if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, I was doing research for a bunch of cars and the TL was one of them. I found on their forum tons of people having tranny problems in their 04's and 05's. One car I really wanted was a 03-07 Accord Coupe V6 but the tranny issue discouraged me.
 
I'm still learning about our trucks so please forgive me if I sound a little ignorant. But, if it stays red forever and doesn't break down, does that mean that particular tranny fluid lasts forever? Also, is it best for our transmissions to only take Toyota brand tranny fluid? Cuz I know Honda requires their transmissions to be changed with only their fluid if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, I was doing research for a bunch of cars and the TL was one of them. I found on their forum tons of people having tranny problems in their 04's and 05's. One car I really wanted was a 03-07 Accord Coupe V6 but the tranny issue discouraged me.

Honda recommends using their Z1 fluid, but for reasons already mentioned by binhsterbinh, the Z1 is not the best, so switching to a full synthetic is recommended. I *think* they had the tranny problems fixed by the time the next generation of Accords came out, but you should check first or ask about tranny warranty work on any potential purchase. But, if you can get a clean Accord Coupe V6 with VTEC, I think you will enjoy it. You might be able to do some bolt-on mods (like headers) to increase the HP. :)
 
I'm pretty sure the Honda/Acura J-series V6 engines have the exhaust manifolds as part of the heads, so headers would be impossible.

It may depend on which J-series engine. Acura TLs from '99-'03 have J series engines (J32A1 & J32A2) which do not have the built-in headers. After '03, TLs had the headers built into the exhaust mani as you mention. I'm not sure about Accords in those years, but after '03 you are probably right.
 
Honda recommends using their Z1 fluid, but for reasons already mentioned by binhsterbinh, the Z1 is not the best, so switching to a full synthetic is recommended. I *think* they had the tranny problems fixed by the time the next generation of Accords came out, but you should check first or ask about tranny warranty work on any potential purchase. But, if you can get a clean Accord Coupe V6 with VTEC, I think you will enjoy it. You might be able to do some bolt-on mods (like headers) to increase the HP. :)

The 03+ Accord V6 and 04+ TL Automatics have infrequent transmission problems. On the other hand, the 99-03 3.2TL models were the inherently flawed ones by design which caused overheating of the 3rd gear clutch pack in most instances. Heat is the #1 killer of transmissions. The two main sources of heat buildup are during clutch engagements during gear shifts and at torque converter.

Acura sold about 70,000 TL's/year for the 04-08 TL 3rd Generation. With that said, I haven't seen a whole of evidence to suggest that the transmissions were all that bad. There's plenty of them out there with well over 100k-125k miles driving just fine even with old Z1 fluid I'm sure.

My '05 TL has 92k miles on the odometer right now and drives like it's brand new still, especially after the three Redline ATF drain and fills. I might install an ATF cooler when it gets warmer out like I did with the 4Runner which now has 135k miles.

Although this discussion has morphed into a talk about Honda/Acura, I think the takeaways are good and a lot of these suggested maintenance tips blanket most cars regardless of brand (unless you have a sealed transmission with lifetime fluid and no dipstip - i.e. 4th Gen 4Runner/GX470/IS350).
 
Last edited:
Honda has dropped its Z1 fluid for DW1, and according to different Web boards, is far superior in performance to its predecessor.

That said, I knew of three Accords, pre 98, that all used Z1 fluid and got over 300,000 miles on them with regular change intervals. I think all three were I4s though.

A friend had an 03 TL-S and was on his 4th set of clutch packs when a city dump truck backed into the car and bent the frame for a total loss. He was one happy man then.
 
Where is the fluid suppose to be on the trans dipstick? Mines a little above cool when the trans temp is like 170.
 
Last edited:
Kind of a tangent here...

Yesterday I had my Toyota dealer do the full trans flush for $150 or so.

Reading the receipt this morning I noticed that under parts they only used 12 qts...
Thoughts on this?

Thanks!
 
Kind of a tangent here...

Yesterday I had my Toyota dealer do the full trans flush for $150 or so.

Reading the receipt this morning I noticed that under parts they only used 12 qts...
Thoughts on this?

Thanks!

Usually takes a bit more than it actually holds to really replace 100%.
It holds around 10.7 Qts I think it is.

If they used 11.25 Qts they would still charge you for the full qt
 
12qts is fine. Dealers are notorious for overcharging for fluids; they once charged my mother for six quarts for her Camry when it only takes 4.3qts. I told the service manager such; he said that I was not aware of the capacity. When I showed him such in the owner's manual, and after a lot of haggling, I left with a free oil change.

Check the ATF when hot. Put foot on brake pedal, shift though gears to L and back to P. With the engine idling and the 4runner level, pull out the dipstick and check the level of the fluid. Add fluid slowly until the fluid reads in the HOT area.
 
Thanks gents, I appreciate the response.

After ready about everyone using 14+ qts for a flush I thought I didn't get enough, not too much.

Thanks again!
 
Thanks gents, I appreciate the response.

After ready about everyone using 14+ qts for a flush I thought I didn't get enough, not too much.

Thanks again!

Just depends on how they flush it.
Sometimes it needs to flush an extra qt or two through until you see clean ATF.
Usually will take at least an extra qt.
 
full transmission flush

Drain and fill would be a good idea. As would a new filter. What you don't want to do is a power flush.

I was interested to read your warning about a "power flush". I don't know what that is. I am getting ready to do a full flush on my 96 T4R Limited with 250,000 miles in the next few weeks. I got the method from a Volvo forum and I have used it on my 04 S60 with 200,000 miles with no incident. You drain the pan; then refill it; then disconnect the line from the trans into the radiator or other cooler and put that line into a gallon jug marked in 4 oz. increments; then you start it up and cycle through the gears (about 10 seconds); turn it off and refill through the dipstick hole with the amount that went into the jug; and repeat until the ATF coming out is clean and red. That way you get all of the ATF out of the trans, torque converter and the cooler. Sounds very straightforward to me. Would you warn against this method also? Thanks for the input.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
278,309
Messages
3,554,068
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top