Tranny flush

ROLAND1955

New member
Hello all, I'm here hoping to get some sense of whether or not I want to get a transmission flush and fill on my 4 Runner. It's a 2010 SR5 with the 4.0 engine and has approx. 87K miles on it. I know in the past there have been two very different schools of thought on transmission flush & Fill services. But I was wondering if there were any new schools of thought that would influence me one way or the other. While I do not believe that any fluid is "lifetime", I also don't want to risk having a transmission slipping because I did the service. If forced to make a decision this minute, I would be leaning away from having it done as the transmission seems to be shifting flawlessly, and as my dad used to say " if it aint broke don't fix it ". On the other hand I want to do whatever I can to insure the smooth operation of this vehicle as I intend to keep it another 4 or 5 years since it only has 87K miles on it. So you see, I'm kind of caught right in the middle. and it doesn't help that I called 2 toyota dealerships today and 1 said don't do it, Toyota doesn't recommend it, the other dealership said to absolutely do it. Anyway, I would appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this. thanks in advance.
 
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Isn't the best thing to do to just drain and fill and change the filter? Flushing should only be used as a last resort from my understanding. Not an expert.
 
I wonder why a dealership would say dont do it...especially when the owners manual specifically gives a mileage number of when to do it. Maybe 'flush' means something different than 'drain-refill' to them. Maybe someone can teach me the diff as well...

Owned since new, I had mine done at 110,000 miles. I wasnt having any problems, no slippage, no issues with 4WD or offroading or in snow. I just figured it was time (per the manual) and i got it done...flush, filter change, and refill. and i havnt worried about it since. I plan on doing it again at 200,000.

on some level, Toyo does say this is a 'sealed' transmission...however, if thta were the case, why is it so easy to empty and refill it?

this guy seems to be credible on some level
Toyota 4Runner Transmission. Why is it so reliable? - YouTube

he has a whole series on the T4R...
The Car Care Nut - YouTube

adding to that...on other posts
Fluid Change Interval

where it is pretty steady in people learning/saying do it at 100K.


hope this helps
 
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Yeah, several other threads on this you can review for opinions.
I posted my change (drain and fill) in the thread mentioned above.

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-...ssion-fluid-change-procedure.html#post3523403

[MENTION=169800]d4vid[/MENTION] made a great vid and linked to it in the thread as well.

There’s also one in the 4th gen thread with some people going over 200k on the original fluid.

How many guys are still on original transmission fluid? Come on in!

The official maintenance guide does not have an interval for normal use. I do not see 100k mentioned for replacing automatic transmission fluid, only inspection every 30k, and replace for “special operating conditions” service at 60k.
See for yourself.
https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-104Runner/pdf/2010_4Runner_WMG_0W20_lr.pdf

Personally I would do at least one drain and fill to check the condition of your fluid, it’s probably similar to mine when I changed last year.

How many original miles? Want to sell your truck?
 
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I’ve done it and used Valvoline synthetic ATF. 2014 SR5 which now has 260K miles and is past due for another flush. I will be doing it soon. No issues.

Don’t believe the Bullshit stories about flushing transmission fluid dislodged all the junk holding it together, causing the tranny to fail shorty afterwards. These are the same guys who believe you must use OEM Toyota Fluids.
 
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Don't flush. Flushing is a forceful pressure that will stir up sediment that may later clog things up. Just drain, replace the filter, and refill.

Toyota does recommend replacing the transmission fluid if you have any driving that stresses the transmission, such as trailer towing, off roading, etc. Otherwise, the transmission fluid is considered "lifetime". Why they recommend that is due to the heat generated during those activities; heat is always bad on oil. Thus, you are wise to replace the fluid from time to time even if you do not stress the transmission.
 
On my Tacoma, I had the dealer flush once but I used the cooler line method each other time every 50K miles.

I remember when Toyota called it lifetime fluid then changed it to 100K fluid.
 
Don't flush. Flushing is a forceful pressure that will stir up sediment that may later clog things up. Just drain, replace the filter, and refill.

Toyota does recommend replacing the transmission fluid if you have any driving that stresses the transmission, such as trailer towing, off roading, etc. Otherwise, the transmission fluid is considered "lifetime". Why they recommend that is due to the heat generated during those activities; heat is always bad on oil. Thus, you are wise to replace the fluid from time to time even if you do not stress the transmission.

Here we go with spreading the transmission flush wive’s tales. Forceful pressure dislodging sediment? If you had ever gotten your pretty nails dirty and done a transmission flush, you’d realize this is technically impossible to occur. To flush the tranny you simply detach the return line at the transmission, turn the engine on and pump out a couple quarts, turn it off and add a couple quarts. Lather, rinse repeat until the fluid you pump out is clear. So there is no "foreceful pressure" other than what occurs normally, oh and you do this with the filter in place which is what traps any sediment in the first place.
 
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The procedures described on this forum to change 12 qts of fluid is not a pressure flush. The proper term would be fluid exchange. Fluid is pumped out at engine idle speed, at a leisurely rate.

Have you ever performed a panic stop? Have you ever floored the accelerator to get merge or pass? What happened to the fluid in the transmission pan? It sloshed forcefully to one end of the pan and then back and forth. Did this stir up any fine stuff that coats the pan and mix with the clean fluid? Your transmission is still working fine. A fluid exchange is far less "forceful" than a panic stop or rapid acceleration.

If you don't think you want to change the fluid yourself, then let the dealer do it.
 
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I used to believe that these long life fluids would last 100k easily. Now I truly believe that you should do ATF as soon as your powertrain warranty runs out. I changed my fluid at 75k and wished I did it at 60k. The difference between 75k old fluid vs fresh valvoline maxlife was a major improvement in shift quality.
 
I flushed mine at around your mileage at the dealer a few years ago and it's been fine ever since. Recommended it for the hard off roading I was doing at the time.
 
No fluid is lifetime. But I wouldn't flush it. Have them do their regular trans drain and fill "trans service". I have mine done every 50k. If it makes you feel better, do it another time at 100k. My dealer charges like $199 I think. It's not expensive. If you really want all new fluid, have them do an exchange, but not a power flush.
 
Patrick, thanks for the reply.... as I stated originally, one local dealership said they don't do it because Toyota doesn't recommend it. Can you tell me where in the manual it says do it? I've been looking and haven't found it. Also, I think some people confuse what I"m calling a transmission fluid flush.. I guess in actuality it's a fluid exchange. The one dealership here that is recommending it uses the BG Power Flush Service is a fast, efficient exchange of your vehicle's transmission fluid. They claim It removes the old fluid and replaces it with new, clean transmission fluid in as little as 5-7 minutes, making it one of the fastest and most efficient flushes on the market.
 
Personally I would do at least one drain and fill to check the condition of your fluid, it’s probably similar to mine when I changed last year.

How many original miles? Want to sell your truck?

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. My 2010 4 Runner is just under 87K miles, still looks and runs great, but she is about to get new brakes on the front...especially since I'm still on the original brakes... at this point, not interested in selling it..
 
Hey guys, thought I'd just throw this in.. I reached out to a friend of mine who is a master tech at a Lexus dealership. He told me that his dealership has now stopped doing the tranny flush or complete fluid exchange because of some of the issues they've seen from doing it... He gave me a technical answer which is over my head, something to do with pressure plates? ( I could be wrong about that ). Just wanted to toss this into the conversation.
 
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. My 2010 4 Runner is just under 87K miles, still looks and runs great, but she is about to get new brakes on the front...especially since I'm still on the original brakes... at this point, not interested in selling it..

That's one thing TOyota can make a "Long-life" claim on are the brakes pads. There's a few guys who claimed to hit 100k+ on their original brake pads
 
... The one dealership here that is recommending it uses the BG Power Flush Service is a fast, efficient exchange of your vehicle's transmission fluid. They claim It removes the old fluid and replaces it with new, clean transmission fluid in as little as 5-7 minutes, making it one of the fastest and most efficient flushes on the market.

I carefully studied the use of a BG Power Flush and decided I would not want a shop to use that machine on my vehicle. Sorry for the long post, but if you want to know the details, read on.

BG PF5-HO Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System - YouTube is a YouTube video showing how to use the BG Power Flush machine. At the beginning of the video, an operator hooks up a new BG machine to a vehicle, sets the BG machine in bypass mode (no pumping), starts the vehicle engine and lets the engine idle. At that point the vehicle transmission is pumping fluid through the BG machine. Operator notes the flow and pressure is low. Operator resets BG machine to process, and flips a switch to power a 12 volt pump on the BG machine. At 5:55 the operator notes, "The BG pump increased the flow from almost no flow whatsoever to around a gallon per minute." This doesn't make sense.

When I exchange ATF in my 4Runner with the engine at idle, the automatic transmission pumps out 3 quarts of ATF in less than one minute. I shut the engine off in about 20-30 seconds, after 3 quarts was pumped out so that the pump doesn't run dry, add new ATF fluid and repeat the process four times.

Why does the BG operator have to engage a 12 volt BG pump to assist the vehicles automatic transmission pump to flow a gallon per minute at engine idle? How could the vehicle's transmission pump allow the BG machine to pass higher flow through the transmission pump with the engine at idle? Why is the vehicle's automatic transmission ATF flowrate so low at engine idle?

BGPF-5 Transmission Flush Machine - YouTube is a better video on how to connect and operate the BG machine.

BG PF5 Certified Technician - YouTube describes adding BG Quick Clean to the transmission and starting the engine to clean varnish and gum. Then operator exchanges the fluid to remove old ATF and the BG Quick Clean solution. Personally, I would not want any varnish and gum cleaner in my transmission. I also would not want a conditioner added to the new ATF fluid as shown in this video.

In the comment section of the last video is the following post, "Most over-complicated trans flush machine on the market. And this is coming from a career diesel tech." A Ford Tech posts this, "Of all the transmissions I've torn down for the last 16 years, I have yet to witness varnish & gum. The solution to pollution is dilution. Drain and fill every 30k and you're good to go." A guy named Looker posts, "This is NOT a good idea if you care about what your car, these machines mix up fluids and are highly prone to operator error. They use the same fluids on all brands of cars, BG Universal ATF fluid….which is a problem if you care about using OEM fluids. The machine leaves behind flush fluid residue, there is no way to ensure all the old fluid and flush is removed but BG Products is great at pushing these services. Every can that Technician opens…he recovers a “token” that he trades in for $$ from the BG distributor…..all at your expense Mr. Customer."

After studying all of the above, I would not exchange ATF at a shop that uses a BG Power Flush machine because (1) they use a cleaner/conditioner, (2) the machine and hoses are not flushed after each service, therefore the operator must use a BG universal fluid for many vehicles, or have a different flush machine for each fluid type, and (3) the machine is complex to operate and possibly prone to operator error. It's shocking that the technician in the first video was not able to clearly describe how the BG machine operates.

According to the BG website, about 100+ automotive shops in the Phoenix area use BG machines to service automatic transmissions. See BG Big Dawg(R) II Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System | BG Products, Inc. The newer Big Dawg PF-19 machine operates exactly like the PF-5 in the above videos. The BG website lists several different BG branded ATF products offered to the shops they serve.
 
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My torque converter in my 2011 started going out at 155k. Dealer said I needed a new one at around $3500 cost. I found other users who solved the issue with a fluid exchange so I paid $300 for the dealer to do that. It solved my issue. I'll now be doing a fluid exchange in my 2016 when I hit 60k, then again at 120k.
 

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