Transmission fluid magically overfilled after engine swap?

[gamefreakgc]

Ok, I've got a realllly odd one. Before I start, I don't have a pink milkshake. Ok, moving on... As some of you know, I just finished up an engine swap. Old engine was losing compression, then spit out a shim and that was that. Fast forward to the end of December, I get my JDM engine in and fires up perfect.

On the second day, I noticed a buzzing noise coming from under the vehicle. I'm like, no worries it's probably just a loose panel or part from the swap rattling around, I'll get to it. Last night I finally get under there and start listening for the noise. It's originating from the transmission! I've never had any issues with this transmission. Another odd thing that's been happening is that it shifts much harder than it used to. I was just chaulking it up to the engine having more power and force than before with my old tired engine.

So I go through the normal checks and check the fluid level. It's several inches past hot! I've also been noticing a burning fluid smell every once in a while, I thought I had an oil leak. A few times I'd even get a little smoke coming out from under the hood. I smell the trans fluid and whoa, that's the smell. Somehow I'm burning trans fluid on my headers. I checked the fluid again this morning and when cold, the fluid level is all the way to the Hot level.

How the heck did my transmission magically fill itself with fluid?

 

[AntleredRuin]

Starting stupid simple (user error).

Did anyone help you with the swap?
Did you (or a helper) accidentally fill the tranny with engine oil at the end of the swap?

 

[gamefreakgc]

Starting stupid simple (user error).

Did anyone help you with the swap?
Did you (or a helper) accidentally fill the tranny with engine oil at the end of the swap?

Nope, I thought about it but there's absolutely no way we mixed up the fluids. Mostly because the last thing I put in was the trans tube, so the filler neck wasn't even there lol! Color of the fluid is a perfect red too, I think engine oil or any other oil would change the color.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Did you change the tension on the transmission cable? When was the last time you checked the level of the ATF?

Liking the JDM engine so far?

 

[phattyduck]

Somehow I'm burning trans fluid on my headers. I checked the fluid again this morning and when cold, the fluid level is all the way to the Hot level.

How the heck did my transmission magically fill itself with fluid?

Is fluid coming out the trans dipstick? Any other way it could get on the header?

Any chance the breather on the top of the trans is clogged, making it LOOK like the trans is overfilled when it isn't? You had to lose at least a bit of fluid pulling and replacing the radiator... (or do you have your radiator cooler bypassed?)

-Charlie

 

[AntleredRuin]

Did you change the tension on the transmission cable? When was the last time you checked the level of the ATF?

Liking the JDM engine so far?

I really don't think the tension should matter for the fluid amount.
But, it would matter for the roughness of the shifts. I messed around with mine for a while and dialed it in for just the right amount of 'kick'.

Maybe the tranny's been over full this whole time, but the tranny cable is adjusted tighter than it used to be.
But that doesn't explain the new overflow leaks...

 

[gamefreakgc]

These are all great thoughts. Never even though about the tension. Also, yes my radiator is bypass with a cooler.

When I had the old engine it, I had the transmission cable slightly overtightened. Same thing, I liked how it shifted better and didn't bog down low with moderate throttle. I adjusted it with the new engine to what I think is the same amount, shifts at the same RPM's so it's very close if not the same amount of tension.

The last time I checked it was after a series of drain and fills last summer with synthetic fluid. It was perfectly at the Hot marker on the dipstick. Made the transmission run very smooth and quick shifts. Now it's like it's regressed a little, it shifts quick but not smooth anymore.

I think a tiny bit of fluid did overflow the dipstick tube going over some rough terrain and then burned off. This is what my dipstick looks like with the headers:

So you can see how it'd smoke if any fluid started to leak out of the tube. Anyway, keep the questions coming! I think tonight after I get home, unless anyone objects, I'm going to drain the pan and then refill it up to the correct level and see how it goes.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Is fluid coming out the trans dipstick? Any other way it could get on the header?

Any chance the breather on the top of the trans is clogged, making it LOOK like the trans is overfilled when it isn't? You had to lose at least a bit of fluid pulling and replacing the radiator... (or do you have your radiator cooler bypassed?)

-Charlie

Where is the breather? I don't think I've ever noticed it before.

 

[thegipper]

When you hear the buzzing noise from the tranny, do you only hear it after its been sitting for awhile (like overnight or after many hours)? And does it go away after a few minutes?

My 97's original tranny made a funny noise (like marbles being tossed around inside) before I eventually started having my shifting problems. My truck would stay stuck in 1st gear until the tranny fluid would hit about 140ish degrees (not the normal 2nd gear no shift until warmed up that everyone is aware of). The noise went away after I dropped the pan and cleaned the filter/screen. It was all plugged up with brown clay (clutch material) from when I got a pink milkshake. After I cleaned it, the noise never came back but the shifting problems began.

Eventually it got worse and worse and I replaced the tranny. Another thing that I noticed when all of this was going on was my fluid levels were all over the place. Sometimes it would read way to high and I could check it a day later and it was back to normal. I did a bunch of research and found that there could be a bad seal or even the pump was failing which is what was causing my issues.

And I know its a stupidly obvious question but I'll ask it anyways, you are checking the fluid level while it is running correct?

And as others have mentioned, try backing off the kick down cable a bit and see if it smooths out your shifting. I had to adjust mine a little bit when I swapped engines.

I would drop the pan, inspect and clean/replace the filter. Get your fluid levels back to where they should be and see what happens.

Good luck buddy

 

[T4R2014]

And as others have mentioned, try backing off the kick down cable a bit and see if it smooths out your shifting. I had to adjust mine a little bit when I swapped engines.

I seriously think that these "tighten your cables = free horsepower" threads are doing more harm than good. My 4Runner shifted like total shit when the cable was too tight. Also these cables are just too old and stretched. The gas pedal cable is easy to replace but the kickdown requires dropping the pan.

 

[octanejunkie]

Following opcorn:

I seriously think that these "tighten your cables = free horsepower" threads are doing more harm than good. My 4Runner shifted like total shit when the cable was too tight. Also these cables are just too old and stretched. The gas pedal cable is easy to replace but the kickdown requires dropping the pan.

AMEN

I took out some slack out of the trans cable, but not all the slack because performance was negatively affected. The throttle cable also wants some slack to accomodate for pedal play.

 

[phattyduck]

Where is the breather? I don't think I've ever noticed it before.

It is on the top/front of the main body of the trans.

Depending on year, 2WD/4WD, etc. it is slightly different. You can see it there as a small tube that goes partially up the bellhousing (my '97 4WD trans), on my '99 2WD trans, it was just a little cap kinda like the rear diff breather, coming out of the trans in the same position. On the car-based A340's, it is often a longer tube that goes up much higher:

-Charlie

 

[gamefreakgc]

When you hear the buzzing noise from the tranny, do you only hear it after its been sitting for awhile (like overnight or after many hours)? And does it go away after a few minutes?

My 97's original tranny made a funny noise (like marbles being tossed around inside) before I eventually started having my shifting problems. My truck would stay stuck in 1st gear until the tranny fluid would hit about 140ish degrees (not the normal 2nd gear no shift until warmed up that everyone is aware of). The noise went away after I dropped the pan and cleaned the filter/screen. It was all plugged up with brown clay (clutch material) from when I got a pink milkshake. After I cleaned it, the noise never came back but the shifting problems began.

Eventually it got worse and worse and I replaced the tranny. Another thing that I noticed when all of this was going on was my fluid levels were all over the place. Sometimes it would read way to high and I could check it a day later and it was back to normal. I did a bunch of research and found that there could be a bad seal or even the pump was failing which is what was causing my issues.

And I know its a stupidly obvious question but I'll ask it anyways, you are checking the fluid level while it is running correct?

And as others have mentioned, try backing off the kick down cable a bit and see if it smooths out your shifting. I had to adjust mine a little bit when I swapped engines.

I would drop the pan, inspect and clean/replace the filter. Get your fluid levels back to where they should be and see what happens.

Good luck buddy

It's actually the opposite, it is quiet at startup and buzzes only when warm at idle. Any sort of throttle and the buzz goes away. I was wondering if something might have knocked loose and is rattling in the pan. I sure hope not. Also, I just remembered, it shifts REALLY hard when cold and shifting to reverse to back out of my garage. As in jolts the whole car and you better have your foot on the brake or it's moving sort of hard.

Looks like I'll drop the pan when I drain the fluid too. I had a hard time with the harness and there was gunk everywhere on top of the trans. It's possible I clogged up the breather.

And yes, I check the fluid when it's running, except for when I checked it cold this morning.

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

Hydraulic Transmission pump is on the way out, Not pulling and circulating enough fluid from the pan causing the fluid to just sit in the pan, couple things its either the pump itself or its the seal.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Did you change the tension on the transmission cable? When was the last time you checked the level of the ATF?

Liking the JDM engine so far?

I really don't think the tension should matter for the fluid amount.
But, it would matter for the roughness of the shifts. I messed around with mine for a while and dialed it in for just the right amount of 'kick'.

Maybe the tranny's been over full this whole time, but the tranny cable is adjusted tighter than it used to be.
But that doesn't explain the new overflow leaks...

I seriously think that these "tighten your cables = free horsepower" threads are doing more harm than good. My 4Runner shifted like total shit when the cable was too tight. Also these cables are just too old and stretched. The gas pedal cable is easy to replace but the kickdown requires dropping the pan.

Ding ding ding! Winners!

So, I got under there and dropped the pan. Fluid looks good, no objects in the pan, so good so far. Next I look at the throttle body, cable is in the exact same position, perhaps even a tad bit more loose then I had on the old engine. Alright, looking good. I re-adjusted the cable coming down around the headers and re-position the cable brackets to give it a little more slack. Then I looked at where the cable enters the transmission and the bracket that holds it in place was snapped in two! The cable had extended about 1/2 an inch, causing the transmission to think the throttle was always open. I gave the cable a bit more slack (anyone who had a supercharger knows the trans cable is a tad bit short) and was able to re-position it where it was before so it doesn't pull apart. Sure thing, I go to drive it and the noise is gone, and the hard shifts are gone. Idling in the garage, just for kicks I pulled on the cable in the engine bay end and sure enough, it starts buzzing again. Bingo!

At the same time, my fluid levels dropped. I still have 1/2 quart of fluid yet to be added, as I'm adding it back in slowly to see if it really was overfilled, or if the over-tightened cable was somehow dumping more fluid into the pan, making it seem overfilled when it really wasn't.

Thanks for the suggestions all and where to look at. I'm going to keep watching the cable and if it starts to pull apart at the transmission case again and become an issue I'll replace the whole cable. Like someone else said though, the throttle cable is easy (which I have replaced, mine was too stretched out) but the trans kick down cable is not.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Good to hear!

 

[T4R2014]

Ding ding ding! Winners!

So, I got under there and dropped the pan. Fluid looks good, no objects in the pan, so good so far. Next I look at the throttle body, cable is in the exact same position, perhaps even a tad bit more loose then I had on the old engine. Alright, looking good. I re-adjusted the cable coming down around the headers and re-position the cable brackets to give it a little more slack. Then I looked at where the cable enters the transmission and the bracket that holds it in place was snapped in two! The cable had extended about 1/2 an inch, causing the transmission to think the throttle was always open. I gave the cable a bit more slack (anyone who had a supercharger knows the trans cable is a tad bit short) and was able to re-position it where it was before so it doesn't pull apart. Sure thing, I go to drive it and the noise is gone, and the hard shifts are gone. Idling in the garage, just for kicks I pulled on the cable in the engine bay end and sure enough, it starts buzzing again. Bingo!

At the same time, my fluid levels dropped. I still have 1/2 quart of fluid yet to be added, as I'm adding it back in slowly to see if it really was overfilled, or if the over-tightened cable was somehow dumping more fluid into the pan, making it seem overfilled when it really wasn't.

Thanks for the suggestions all and where to look at. I'm going to keep watching the cable and if it starts to pull apart at the transmission case again and become an issue I'll replace the whole cable. Like someone else said though, the throttle cable is easy (which I have replaced, mine was too stretched out) but the trans kick down cable is not.

Where's that bracket? I need to check this. I've had this hard, delayed shift issue since I got this truck. My high school aged judgement back then thought it was smart to tighten the cable when the truck was already shifting fine. It never shifted quite like it did even after I loosened the cable back. From then on, I NEVER touched the cable adjustment in my other 4Runners unless I felt something was genuinely wrong.

That thread seriously needs a disclaimer because noobs don't necessarily know what a properly adjusted cable should be like.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Where's that bracket? I need to check this. I've had this hard, delayed shift issue since I got this truck. My high school aged judgement back then thought it was smart to tighten the cable when the truck was already shifting fine. It never shifted quite like it did even after I loosened the cable back. From then on, I NEVER touched the cable adjustment in my other 4Runners unless I felt something was genuinely wrong.

That thread seriously needs a disclaimer because noobs don't necessarily know what a properly adjusted cable should be like.

I'll upload a photo on where to look when I get home. I can't take a photo of the cable clamp though since it's very awkwardly on top of the bell housing.

Edit: Here's the photos. The first is the clamp on top of the bell housing (top left):

The second is the bracket that broke on me where it enters the transmission case. Not that the cable should be perfectly vertical, mine is obviously not since it's broken: