Transmission woes. Advice/brainstorming appreciated.

[johnbyebye]

Hey everyone,

This is going to be a long post so bear with me. I would like some advice/brainstorming from you guys regarding my current transmission issue.

Almost 2 years to the day (January 2017) I had a used transmission swapped into my 4runner by a local shop. I bought the transmission from a wrecking yard and the shop installed it.

Fast forward to September of this year. I have not had a single issue with the transmission. I was going on a trip to Lassen NP and decided to change the fluid for good measure since I was approaching 30K miles on it.

I hadn't paid too much attention to the fluid level up to this point since there were no leaks. My main concern was how the fluid color/smell was holding up and all was fine. Well, the day I went to change the fluid I noticed that the level was significantly higher than the HOT fill line. Like one inch above it, no exaggeration. I checked it multiple times but the level remained the same. No worries I thought, when I change the fluid I'll just put less in. All seemed well.

On my way back from the trip to Lassen my transmission started to behave strangely. There was a large amount of drag on the engine when coasting and accelerating from a stop caused the transmission to slip. I checked the fluid and the level was fine (now at the fill HOT line) as well as the color.

A few days pass and I start hearing a whine coming from the transmission in addition to the drag and slipping. Just peachy. Thinking back to when I changed the fluid, I immediately added fluid and brought the level back to where it was above the fill line. Doing so did not resolve the whine however, my transmission no longer slips and works fine otherwise. I have already picked up another donor tranny and will install it when the weather improves. The whine has not gotten any worse.

I have not dropped the pan yet to take a look as I haven't had time.

I have a few questions for you knowledgeable folks about this entire scenario.

What would cause the fluid level to be that much higher than the fill line?

This transmission failed in the same way that the original one failed, the torque converter whining. The first one had almost no fluid in it as the drain bolt leaked. I suspect I had actually drained too much fluid out of the my transmission despite it being at the fill line.

The transmission was from a Federal emissions 4runner, but mine is California. As far as I know, the first donor transmission did not come with a pan, filter, or dipstick so all of these were transferred from my old one. Could there be a difference that affects the fluid fill line?

Shoddy work by the tranny shop?

I'm quite paranoid about this as presently I have no way of knowing how much fluid is actually in my transmission since the dipstick clearly can't be trusted. I am afraid of running into this problem with my second donor and I would very much like to not destroy it lol. Of all the problems I would have expected to encounter with a high mileage vehicle, replacing the transmission TWICE was not one of them.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[JayRolla]

How exactly are you checking fluid level?

Did you do a full trans fluid exchange? Or just pull the bolt and refill?

 

[jgue467]

That was my first thought too, is the surface the trans fluid is checked on Level? Fine one that is (with a level).

On mine I made the same mistake and slightly overfilled once, drove it that way for years. Then underfilled it by about 1.5" on the stick, didn't seem to matter, drove it that way for a couple weeks before filling to correct level.

So it seems to me anyway like the toyo trans can take a moderate amount of over and under filling and still operate OK short and long term, from my experience. And yeah so far, it's still an original transmission, crossed fingers but we know everything has to go someday.

So I think while its unfortunate it just may be the second trans was weak already and underfilling took it over the edge. It should have been able to handle a moderate amount of low fluid level, IMO.

Luck and I'd replace it again too, for what it's worth. :cowboy:

 

[johnbyebye]

How exactly are you checking fluid level?

Did you do a full trans fluid exchange? Or just pull the bolt and refill?

Thanks for the reply.

The way I check it is on a flat surface with the engine running and everything warmed up.

I had only pulled the bolt and refilled. I can't remember exactly how much fluid I drained, I would say 4-5 quarts.

The whole ordeal confuses me. I don't understand the discrepancy with the disptick level. I had re-added over 1 quart of fluid to it and my problems disappeared minus the whine. I would never do this to a transmission that was already supposedly full.

 

[johnbyebye]

That was my first thought too, is the surface the trans fluid is checked on Level? Fine one that is (with a level).

On mine I made the same mistake and slightly overfilled once, drove it that way for years. Then underfilled it by about 1.5" on the stick, didn't seem to matter, drove it that way for a couple weeks before filling to correct level.

So it seems to me anyway like the toyo trans can take a moderate amount of over and under filling and still operate OK short and long term, from my experience. And yeah so far, it's still an original transmission, crossed fingers but we know everything has to go someday.

So I think while its unfortunate it just may be the second trans was weak already and underfilling took it over the edge. It should have been able to handle a moderate amount of low fluid level, IMO.

Luck and I'd replace it again too, for what it's worth. :cowboy:

It could just be a coincidence as well, I hadn't thought about that. I try to make sure I'm on a level surface but I don't actually use a level, I just eyeball it.

I found a donor with 170k miles on it. The vehicle appeared to be well taken care of (aside from the rear-end damage hehe) so hopefully it works out better than this one.

 

[JMat]

Something else to look into when it comes to fluid level... What dipstick did they install? Not sure if it differs in the 2000 but what year was the used transmission they installed?

I had to buy a new dipstick earlier this year for my '98(because the original finally broke after 20 years of twisting and pushing) and the first one my local dealership sold me was wrong. It was about 2 inches shorter and the marks didn't come close to lining up.

Just a thought.

 

[alumarine]

The fluid temperature should be 158F - 176F when checking.
Also, when checking are you removing the dipstick, wiping it clean then reinserting and checking?

 

[johnbyebye]

Something else to look into when it comes to fluid level... What dipstick did they install? Not sure if it differs in the 2000 but what year was the used transmission they installed?

I had to buy a new dipstick earlier this year for my '98(because the original finally broke after 20 years of twisting and pushing) and the first one my local dealership sold me was wrong. It was about 2 inches shorter and the marks didn't come close to lining up.

Just a thought.

This was a thought I had as well. However, in my case the dipstick would be too long making the fill line lower. The transmission came from the same year 4Runner and I'm not sure if it even came with the dipstick or if they used my original one. I didn't see the transmission when it was delivered by the salvage yard. Perhaps my first mistake.

The fluid temperature should be 158F - 176F when checking.
Also, when checking are you removing the dipstick, wiping it clean then reinserting and checking?

I don't have a scanguage so I'm not sure what the temperature is when I check it, but yes to the second part. All I can say is that it's warmed up when I check it lol.

 

[johnbyebye]

I picked up another donor tranny and dropped it off at a local shop. My truck goes in on the 14th for surgery. Fingers crossed that this one turns out better. Otherwise I may just go crazy... :uzi:

After speaking with the mechanic he thinks the pump in the transmission wasn't working properly even before my TC was whining. He stated that all things being equal, it might explain why the dipstick was showing overfilled. (The pump wasn't pumping fluid fast enough) At some point in the 30k miles since I had the tranny installed the pump probably started failing. Or perhaps it was bad from the start. Who knows. Me taking fluid out likely sent it over the edge. Unfortunately it's the risk I took buying a used transmission. In any case, I'm not wasting any more time on the current transmission. Onward and upward lol.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

 

[WWRD99]

I don't have a scanguage so I'm not sure what the temperature is when I check it, but yes to the second part. All I can say is that it's warmed up when I check it lol.[/QUOTE]

I use the torque pro app on my phone to see the trans temp on my 99,,,got a 12 dollar bluetooth ALDL and can see basic stuff with it,,,should work on the 2000 year too,,,97 98 it won't show,,,I've found some of the double DIN radios also pair with them so the entire radio becomes a gauge pod...I like to know where mine is at since I put a trans cooler on too...good luck on the new to you trans.

 

[johnbyebye]

Hello,

The transmission swap was a success. It's only been two days, but so far so good. The donor shifts like a dream.

The mechanic said the kick-down cable was bent by the previous shop and they also left out a spring for the transfer case. At this point I'm not surprised the old transmission failed. This is why I have a hard time trusting mechanics.

Hopefully this one sticks and I don't have to worry about it anymore.