Hellaflushfj60
New member
Has/can this been done? I would think that the rear axles are the same so if I could just order factory parts I would prefer to do that over running an air locker...
Using factory trail e-locker on LE?
- Thread starter Hellaflushfj60
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Scharfschütze
New member
The complexity to make all the electronics work as OEM is going to kill you in cost and work. Air locker(s) is the way to go on an LE most likely. Good idea though. I love OEM crossover upgrades.
Electronics wouldn't be hard, as long as you aren't planning to make the light on the speedometer light up, just apply 12v and go with it. you could even hook up a light to illuminate when the plunger sees it locked if you want to go all out.
But, IIRC, aren't the ring gears different sized or something like that on the open diffs and diffs with lockers? I thought it was 8" for one and 8.4" for the other?? I might be wrong. Not sure if they fit in eachothers housings (so you'd just swap the entire 3rd member).
I thought someone was offering an aftermarket e-locker too?
But, IIRC, aren't the ring gears different sized or something like that on the open diffs and diffs with lockers? I thought it was 8" for one and 8.4" for the other?? I might be wrong. Not sure if they fit in eachothers housings (so you'd just swap the entire 3rd member).
I thought someone was offering an aftermarket e-locker too?
Jetboy
New member
You would need to replace the entire housing with the differential. It should bolt in. The wiring will probably require an aftermarket harness and switches. It takes a little more than just a 12v power supply. It's a minimum of 5 wires and a double pole double throw relay to make it work correctly - 7 wires are used for the standard wiring with a on/off light. The wiring kits are pretty reasonable and available from a number of sources. The only way I see it being economical would be finding one from a wrecked trail edition. Gear ratios etc. are all the same.
I prefer the e locker over air lockers. If the price is comparable - I'd go for an elocker without hesitation. I can't count how many air lockers I've seen fail on the trail. Whether it's compressors, air lines, or seals, - in my experience they are not as reliable as OEM e lockers. And it's usually not the locker its self. On my last trip, I think 2 out of 12 vehicles had ARBs that didn't work by the end of the trip. They do lock and unlock faster. For a trailer queen or a competition buggy - I'd probably prefer air lockers. Sometimes they're the only option for many differentials. Just my $.02.
I prefer the e locker over air lockers. If the price is comparable - I'd go for an elocker without hesitation. I can't count how many air lockers I've seen fail on the trail. Whether it's compressors, air lines, or seals, - in my experience they are not as reliable as OEM e lockers. And it's usually not the locker its self. On my last trip, I think 2 out of 12 vehicles had ARBs that didn't work by the end of the trip. They do lock and unlock faster. For a trailer queen or a competition buggy - I'd probably prefer air lockers. Sometimes they're the only option for many differentials. Just my $.02.
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Seattle206
Senior Member
Rings gears for open diffs and those with factory e-lockers are the same size.
4Reak Show
New member
Haven't researched for 5th gens, but converting in a 2nd gen or non elocker 3rd gen requires some housing modifications as well. Cutting/notching for the motor, and also drilling and tapping threads for different fasteners.
Combine that with wiring and all that and it can add up quickly in both time and money.
I was going to go this route and retrofit to an elocker. But I've now opted to have ZUK install a true trac. Those are a good alternative compared to a full locker. Apparently pretty good off road semi-locking and great on-road. No clutches, no air lines. 100% mechanical. Military design.
If you want to have more info from a guru hit up ZUK. Gearinstalls.com. He's a total non bs badass. All he does is set up rear end 3rds via FedEx. I'm sending mine out soon when I get time to pull it. Can't recommend him enough no matter which diff route you go. True trac is least invasive with pretty good results overall. But it all depends on your final goal of course.
Good luck
Combine that with wiring and all that and it can add up quickly in both time and money.
I was going to go this route and retrofit to an elocker. But I've now opted to have ZUK install a true trac. Those are a good alternative compared to a full locker. Apparently pretty good off road semi-locking and great on-road. No clutches, no air lines. 100% mechanical. Military design.
If you want to have more info from a guru hit up ZUK. Gearinstalls.com. He's a total non bs badass. All he does is set up rear end 3rds via FedEx. I'm sending mine out soon when I get time to pull it. Can't recommend him enough no matter which diff route you go. True trac is least invasive with pretty good results overall. But it all depends on your final goal of course.
Good luck
Carolina Roscoe
Member
Not to derail the thread but has anyone researched putting an E-Locker in the Front? I got a Price from East Coast Gear a few months ago on putting an Air Locker in the front, wasn't that bad.
Here you go. These guys offer e-lockers for the front and rear. They note the case may need a little grinding. I thought id seen some posts of installs of these.
If it comes time to regear, this is probably what I'd throw in the front.
https://yotalockers.com/pages/toyota-4runner-all-years
If it comes time to regear, this is probably what I'd throw in the front.
https://yotalockers.com/pages/toyota-4runner-all-years
Carolina Roscoe
Member
Hellaflushfj60
New member
Just be weary about the front locker on an IFS vehicle
Badmeat
New member
This thread is very pertinent to my interest. I've been doing research on rear locker options for my 2013 SR5. One concern (as mentioned above) was regarding the air locker setup and potential leaks. Granted, having on board air would be convenient when airing down/up tires, but that's nothing a decent portable air compressor wouldn't solve.
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Jeremy556
New member
5th gen 4runner front end is plenty strong for a locker. I've been locked in front for over 100K miles and use it regularly.
Hellaflushfj60
New member
Cool, glad to hear it.
e60ral
Banned
do you mind saying what the price was? i am considering doing this when my needle bearing fails.
wfo9
New member
Air locker (ARB) seems like the obvious choice for a reto-fit in my opinion.
Why... They just work. Are stronger than the factory carrier and just pop right in with no modifications to the housing.
The only complexity is installing it right and routing the line correctly. There is a tad bit of maintenance (cleaning the lines once a year or so) and a little more to go wrong with the engagement mechanism... but the instant on/off more than makes up for it IMHO. Also, the retrofits I've seen done never work correctly. They are reliable from the factory.. but I would not try to retro-fit one in.
Also, a locker up front is just fine. Just have to use your head a bit while it is on. In the long run I feel it greatly reduces wear and tear in extreme terrain. Just opinion, but you can bounce up or crawl up... The locker often gives you the crawl option. I've been side by side on the same obstacle many times with unlocked (in front) 5th gens. My truck just walks up... they make it, but with quite a bit more drama (spinning, bouncing....). Those shock loads are what make me cringe on IFS. I guess I could be doing hidden damage.. but from the outside.. it sure looks and feels better and no issues so far. Those other guys bouncing up... not so lucky. Not even a broken CV yet and I've been pushing it for hundreds of hours... I'm sure I will eventually break something, but so far so good so I continue to use the front locker as a mechanism to avoid breakage.
Why... They just work. Are stronger than the factory carrier and just pop right in with no modifications to the housing.
The only complexity is installing it right and routing the line correctly. There is a tad bit of maintenance (cleaning the lines once a year or so) and a little more to go wrong with the engagement mechanism... but the instant on/off more than makes up for it IMHO. Also, the retrofits I've seen done never work correctly. They are reliable from the factory.. but I would not try to retro-fit one in.
Also, a locker up front is just fine. Just have to use your head a bit while it is on. In the long run I feel it greatly reduces wear and tear in extreme terrain. Just opinion, but you can bounce up or crawl up... The locker often gives you the crawl option. I've been side by side on the same obstacle many times with unlocked (in front) 5th gens. My truck just walks up... they make it, but with quite a bit more drama (spinning, bouncing....). Those shock loads are what make me cringe on IFS. I guess I could be doing hidden damage.. but from the outside.. it sure looks and feels better and no issues so far. Those other guys bouncing up... not so lucky. Not even a broken CV yet and I've been pushing it for hundreds of hours... I'm sure I will eventually break something, but so far so good so I continue to use the front locker as a mechanism to avoid breakage.
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MossJenks
New member
I'll be interested to hear the results of your True Trac. I had Zuk install one in my 2nd gen 3rd and I liked it a lot. It was very good on the road especially in snow and rain and I felt like it was a pretty big upgrade off-road too. On that truck it it didn't help at all if one of the rear wheel was off the ground though - no LSD does.
HOWEVER - a 5th gen is a bit of a different beast. Sure, mechanically it's open but electronically it's most definitely not. ATRAC is pretty badass and offroad gives you more benefit than an LSD IMHO and most of the benefits of a locker. On-road VSC takes up the functions of an LSD - on both ends. I bet the True Trac activates faster and smoother though.
Here's Zuk's website for reference: Gear Install Harrop
I'd also like to hear what sort of benefit people are getting from a front locker. Does the factory rear locker disable ATRAC? How does a retrofitted rear locker effect ATRAC? It seems to me if you have the rear locked and ATRAC doing it's thing up front you'd have to be doing some pretty serious rock crawling for a front locker to be an improvement. At that point you're going to want a crawl box as well. No?
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4Reak Show
New member
Yeah I'm juiced! Should be taking it out tonight and shipping tmrw. I've heard the wheel in the air thing. I'm not a crawler so that shouldn't affect me too much. Plus Ive heard you can tug the e brake a little and get it to catch the other tire. I noticed on my last trip I was just rutting out a lot and one tire was digging in. Felt like if that happens with the TT it would lock up and transfer power so both spin and push it up and over.
We shall see at some point! Couldn't be any worse right?
Jetboy
New member
I have had a trutrac in the front of a minitruck along with a detroit locker in the rear. The combination was great 95% of the time. But there were times that I wished I had a full locker up front. For me - I wouldn't probably go anything other than a selectable locker - either an E-locker or an air locker. In an older truck - like my current trail toy FJ40 - I can just open the front hubs and it's no problem. Since that's not an option anymore a selectable locker would be my first choice up front.
In the rear - I'd go for a detroit softlocker. They're basically seamless on the highway. You'll never know it's there. The stories of clunky locker that causes driveability issues are usually related to lunchbox lockers or other harsher versions. The full carrier Detroits are great for the rear end.
What's interesting about a truetrac is that it's very sensitive to brake application to transfer power. When my minitruck was bound up and couldn't get traction to the one side that needed it, a slight brake pedal application often did the trick. I don't know how it would work with A-Trac, but my guess is that it would actually work extremely well together and give you a very close approximation of a real locker in either axle. I'd love to test one in this application.
I have found instances - in pretty hard rock crawling - where I really wished I had a front locker. Rear locker and ATRAC were not enough. Crawl Control is more aggressive than ATRAC and occasionally it was enough to get through where ATRAC could not. Neither were really a perfect replacement for a locker.
An electronic system *could* outperform a locker by acting like a locker but adjusting perfectly each tire rotation for the radius of turns. I'm guessing the next generation of 4runner will get all the stuff the Prado 150 or LC200 has - like turn assist. It will damn near do a complete front dig. It locks the rear inside tire to turn sharper. I've had some discussions with some folks at one of the big aftermarket toyota shops that is working on electronics to take manual control of the 4 channel ABS system to do skid steer turns and more complex functionality like that. If it works well - it's like cutting brakes - only better. If those things start to happen, differentials that are automatic like the true trac or the full auto lockers will start to fight them. So I think the days may be numbered for torsion and auto locking differentials, but for now I'd love to see how a true trac works in the front of a 5th gen - or rear if you don't have a Trail with a selectable locker. I think it'd be 99% as effective as a locker when combined with ATRAC.
4Reak Show
New member
Well I don't want to ruin his rep or get your hopes up/down based on what he has to do for you...
But I will say for mine to be installed with all new bearings, AND paying for the TT unit (which is upwards of $500) it's around $1,100, with return shipping. He may quote you differently so don't take this as gospel. Shoot him an email to confirm.
Shipping for me, from northern CA to AZ where he is is only about $70.
Again, email him. He's no joke honest and knowledgeable.
One build he did was on a new tundra HUGE 3rd member. He knows his stuff
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