Vibration through steering and gas pedal

[eurasiaoverland]

Hi All

96 3RZ 5 speed

In my endless and so far fruitless quest to track down various road noises, I am trying to trace what might be causing a humming vibration which comes through the steering wheel, gas pedal and maybe shift lever.

Firstly, this hum / vibration is far too high frequency to be wheels or rotors. It is present all the time, and seems to resonate at certain road and / or engine speeds. It seems to have little, if any, relation to turning the steering wheel. It's similar to the noise that a cold / bad steering pump makes.

I've recently switched from winter to new AT tyres, no change in the noise at all.

I'm trying to think what it could be at the front end - it's not typical for CV noise (no clicks or knock at full lock), and this is when driving in 2WD (I don't have a centre diff so don't drive in 4WD on the road, and I am certain that 4WD is not engaged).

Maybe something in the front diff??

Or perhaps a some blockage in the steering rack?

The engine is rebuilt and runs perfectly, but I have a new fan clutch and harmonic balancer ready to go on (in order to try to get rid of another engine vibration most noticeable at 2000 rpm), but I don't see why these things would be felt through the steering...

I would be glad to hear from anyone who has traced a similar noise and eliminated it.

EO

 

[BoomerBob]

Drive shaft bushings or u-joint(s) going bad?

 

[STI_MECE]

I have wheel bearings going out in the front end on my rig. And it's a gritty feeling which causes a him, groan (whatever you want to call it).

Diagnosing a mechanical issue on a car by describing the noise (especially for its age) is about as hard as threading a camel through an eye of a needle.

Checking wheel bearings is pretty easy.....jack up front end and spin each wheel and see if their is a audible noise if they are good it should be nothing. I doubt you have play but position hands at 9 and 3 and try and see if you can force the wheel to move side to side. You can try 12 and 6 too.

I say you probably don't have play because you don't say you have steering wheel wobble.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[eurasiaoverland]

Drive shaft bushings or u-joint(s) going bad?

Not sure what you mean by driveshaft bushing, but the UJs seem good. No slop whatsoever. The rear UJ is relatively new, genuine part. Thanks.

 

[eurasiaoverland]

I have wheel bearings going out in the front end on my rig. And it's a gritty feeling which causes a him, groan (whatever you want to call it).

Diagnosing a mechanical issue on a car by describing the noise (especially for its age) is about as hard as threading a camel through an eye of a needle.

Checking wheel bearings is pretty easy.....jack up front end and spin each wheel and see if their is a audible noise if they are good it should be nothing. I doubt you have play but position hands at 9 and 3 and try and see if you can force the wheel to move side to side. You can try 12 and 6 too.

I say you probably don't have play because you don't say you have steering wheel wobble.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Definitely agreee with you on noise diagnosis; however the fact that I only feel it through the steering wheel and gas pedal may make it easier to pinpoint. It's not regular driveline noise which appears at a given speed and resonates through the entire vehicle.

Wheel beraings are perfect, checked them at the weekend while the truck was up on the ramps getting a set of BFGs fitted. Absolutely noise-free when turning the wheels, no slop when rocking them. I do have a touch of wheel wobble, however I think this is wear in the rack rather than unbalanced wheels.

Thanks

EO

 

[dogtail]

So you ruled out tires wheel bearings. Just gotta keep the process of elimination going. Because you say you may be getting transfer of vibration in the shifter, I would check on drivetrain stuff. Lot of vibration can come from the rear driveshaft and transfer the vibration thru the Tcase to up front. Driveshaft can seem fine on the grab, but be sloppy on the spin and out of balance. Easy rule out of this vibration, pull out the rear driveshaft and drive in front wheel drive. I get my shafts rebuilt with new DC joint, universals and balance for $235......but I have a really good drivetrain shop near me and they know what they are doing.

 

[mtbtim]

If your lifted, I'd take a look at your driver side front differential needle bearing.
ECGS found a flaw with how the Toyota carriers are made. The spider gear does not have a machined surface inside the carrier to rest against and that causes excessive movement of the spider gear. When you lift your truck or SUV and put the CV axle at a more extreme angle, the play within the carrier allows excessive pressure to be put on the needle bearing the CV shaft rides on and that needle bearing was not made to handle that type of load. The result is people can experience a bad vibration and a roaring sound.

ECGS got an idea from ARB that uses a bushing instead of a needle bearing inside the lockers they sell. They decided a fix for the Toyota carriers would be to replace the needle bearing with an oil impregnated bronze bushing to greatly reduce the play the CV shaft has within the carrier. Their idea worked and this is a great fix.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sXIfHArtvF8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[PowrPly]

I agree with MTBTIM. I just diagnosed this issue in my 4Runner and will be installing it in a few days. Simply get under the front end and grab the CV where it meets the diff on the driver’s side and check the amount of play.
I love Timmy, but you need to know something about this video. ECGS had an issue with the size of the tool they created to remove the needle bearing and you’ll see Tim have a hell of a time with it in this video. However, ECGS has addressed that by resizing the tool.
If you search Tacoma clamshell bushing on YouTube you’ll find another very helpful video. There’s an orange Tacoma in the picture frame, that’ll be the one.
Good luck!

 

[eurasiaoverland]

If your lifted, I'd take a look at your driver side front differential needle bearing.
ECGS found a flaw with how the Toyota carriers are made. The spider gear does not have a machined surface inside the carrier to rest against and that causes excessive movement of the spider gear. When you lift your truck or SUV and put the CV axle at a more extreme angle, the play within the carrier allows excessive pressure to be put on the needle bearing the CV shaft rides on and that needle bearing was not made to handle that type of load. The result is people can experience a bad vibration and a roaring sound.

ECGS got an idea from ARB that uses a bushing instead of a needle bearing inside the lockers they sell. They decided a fix for the Toyota carriers would be to replace the needle bearing with an oil impregnated bronze bushing to greatly reduce the play the CV shaft has within the carrier. Their idea worked and this is a great fix.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sXIfHArtvF8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I agree with MTBTIM. I just diagnosed this issue in my 4Runner and will be installing it in a few days. Simply get under the front end and grab the CV where it meets the diff on the driver’s side and check the amount of play.
I love Timmy, but you need to know something about this video. ECGS had an issue with the size of the tool they created to remove the needle bearing and you’ll see Tim have a hell of a time with it in this video. However, ECGS has addressed that by resizing the tool.
If you search Tacoma clamshell bushing on YouTube you’ll find another very helpful video. There’s an orange Tacoma in the picture frame, that’ll be the one.
Good luck!

Awesome, thanks guys. I do have a mild lift (OME 880s with Bilstein 4600s on the front). I just got under my truck and felt the inner CVs. On both sides there is noticeable vertical play where they go into the diff, more so on the left-hand (driver's side on your trucks, passenger side on my JDM) side.

I will take a look at the video later, but I am not familiar with who / what ECGS is... can someone link me to the correct part with the new, improved removal tool please?

Is there a similar bush for the right-hand (your passenger) side?

Is there a chance my driveshaft is now worn below spec?

Would a diff-drop eliminate the problem?

Thanks again

EO

 

[eurasiaoverland]

OK, skip the above post... I've already ordered a bush and bearing removal tool. Luckily a friend is flying from the US next week (with a bunch of bits) over here to the Netherlands.

Will keep you up to date on progress.

EO

 

[PowrPly]

EO -
The passenger side (your driver side) uses a ball bearing support for the axle shaft which provides more support and doesn’t wear as easily. Hence the bushing is only available for the needle bearing side.
A diff drop may eliminate the vibration, but it doesn’t address the real issue, the needle bearing is an insufficient support. Installing a diff drop would be like turning up the stereo so you don’t hear a problem anymore.

 

[XtremeAdventurer]

If your lifted, I'd take a look at your driver side front differential needle bearing.
ECGS found a flaw with how the Toyota carriers are made. ... The result is people can experience a bad vibration and a roaring sound.

Just finished this today and really glad you posted. Vibration is gone! It's been a few months trying to track this one down.

 

[bodean123]

An easy way to check if it’s the needle bearing causing the vibes is to put it in 4hi and see if the vibes go away.

 

[eurasiaoverland]

Just finished this today and really glad you posted. Vibration is gone! It's been a few months trying to track this one down.

Great to hear that! Could you describe in detail the symptoms you had, please?

Thanks

EO

 

[mtbtim]

I agree with MTBTIM. I just diagnosed this issue in my 4Runner and will be installing it in a few days. Simply get under the front end and grab the CV where it meets the diff on the driver’s side and check the amount of play.
I love Timmy, but you need to know something about this video. ECGS had an issue with the size of the tool they created to remove the needle bearing and you’ll see Tim have a hell of a time with it in this video. However, ECGS has addressed that by resizing the tool.
If you search Tacoma clamshell bushing on YouTube you’ll find another very helpful video. There’s an orange Tacoma in the picture frame, that’ll be the one.
Good luck!

This will continue to be a problem and I don’t know how to fix it other than making entirely new videos when there’s an update and we’re not going to do that. I did however mention in the video that I was going to contact ECGS about the issue with the tool and I would provide an update to what they told me. In all our videos, we offer helpful and quite often VERY IMPORTANT information in our videos descriptions and in a pinned comment. For this particular video, I made a pinned comment that covers the fact that ECGS did re-engineer the tool. ECGS actually sent me the updated tool for free because they appreciated the video we made. For anyone reading this post, please, please, please always read the video description and read any comment pinned by us. You will find the information shared very helpful.

 

[XtremeAdventurer]

Great to hear that! Could you describe in detail the symptoms you had, please?

Thanks

EO

Bought the ‘99 4Runner with 320k miles, so I knew it was going to need some work. After a ToyTec/SuperFlex lift w/ 5100’s, I started to get a lot of stability issues. New SPC UCA, new poly bushings (upper & lower on front, rear, & panhard bar), new steering gear bushings, used 2002 Tacoma steering gear, new CV’s, you name it and I replaced it.

I was also getting a vibration almost like a wheel out of balance and was starting to get a bearing noise. Suspected the front wheel bearing, so I replaced them. The stability problems were gone, but still had the vibration and noise.

Noise started around 25-30mph, vibration started to be noticeable around 60mph and was pronounced at 80. Heaving braking caused a vibration like a warped rotor, but since I had new pad & rotors (Tundra 199 upgrade) I figured it wasn’t that.

I read this thread, checked the Driver CV, and sure enough had a lot of play at the diff.

The video made sense with what I was experiencing, so I ordered the parts & puller and replaced the bearing with the bushing.

I’d say easy as that, but it was a bit of work!

 

[eurasiaoverland]

Bought the ‘99 4Runner with 320k miles, so I knew it was going to need some work. After a ToyTec/SuperFlex lift w/ 5100’s, I started to get a lot of stability issues. New SPC UCA, new poly bushings (upper & lower on front, rear, & panhard bar), new steering gear bushings, used 2002 Tacoma steering gear, new CV’s, you name it and I replaced it.

I was also getting a vibration almost like a wheel out of balance and was starting to get a bearing noise. Suspected the front wheel bearing, so I replaced them. The stability problems were gone, but still had the vibration and noise.

Noise started around 25-30mph, vibration started to be noticeable around 60mph and was pronounced at 80. Heaving braking caused a vibration like a warped rotor, but since I had new pad & rotors (Tundra 199 upgrade) I figured it wasn’t that.

I read this thread, checked the Driver CV, and sure enough had a lot of play at the diff.

The video made sense with what I was experiencing, so I ordered the parts & puller and replaced the bearing with the bushing.

I’d say easy as that, but it was a bit of work!

Thanks! Your description of the noises sound a lot like what I have (though I can't remember the last time I had her up to 80 ) - will check the noise in 4WD. I don't have any stability issues as far as I know.

I'm running 4600s with OME 880s. As part of a major overhaul when I bought the car, the front bearings, ball joints, inner and outer tie rod ends, rack bushes, anti-roll bar bushes, discs and pads have all been replaced. I'm running newly bought and balanced BFG KO2s.

A friend is coming over here from the US next weekend with my new bush and tool

EO

 

[mnorm757]

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I'm on a wild goose chase....
Getting a strange vibration in the gas pedal/floor board between ~20-40 mph when accelerating. I lifted the front slightly with 5100s to level out the truck after deleting Xreas about 5 months ago.
Could this be the needle bearing? I have 235K and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still on the original. I read somewhere in my search for a solution that the ECGS doesn't work on the V8 AWD Limited (which I have). If this is true, and it's the culprit, will I simply need to replace the needle bearing more often?
I cleaned the throttle body this afternoon and noticed an improvement in throttle response but the vibration is still there...like a cell phone ringing. Next step is to replace the spark plugs and inspect the U-joints.

 

[heat]

Pretty sure you've got a better chance of a meaningful reply in the 4th gen section.