Vibration when accelerating in 4WD only?

[Drheim]

Hi guys,

I live in Vail, CO and it snows all the time up here. I have a 2013 Forerunner with 44k miles on it that has never had issues in 4wd before. This year I put blizzak tires on in November. I did not notice any issues for a couple of months after the tires were put on(sure I was in 4wd a lot), so not sure if that is the issue. Now I am noticing a slight vibration when I am in 4WD and accelerating at highway speeds on the interstate. If I let off the gas and coast at 60mph the wobble goes away, and if I change to 2WD and then accelerate the wobble goes away. Only when in 4WD and accelerating which makes me think it is not the tires. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Dan

 

[JSparky]

In the manual you'll read that the part time 4wd system in sr5 and trail edition 4runner's is not intended to drive past 55 (or is is 45?) mph in 4wd. Again, check the manual.

The vibration you're feeling could be a balancing issue in the driveline induced by the speed at which you're running 4wd, or the 4wd system itself attempting to shift out of 4wd. Either way the 4wd system was not designed by Toyota to be run at those speeds. Full-time 4wd is available on Limited 4Runners, Land Cruisers, and Lexus GX460 and LX570's.

If you can accelerate at freeway speeds safely you don't need 4wd, just shift out of it. If it's slick conditions and you feel like you need 4wd, slow down first. Hope that makes sense

 

[jetranger]

Thinking front driveshaft as well...

 

[wfo9]

It's most likely the needle bearings on the drivers side of the diff. Get down there and check for play where the inner CV shaft goes into the diff.. There should be no play. It is a very common problem on all 2005 + Toyota 120/150s. . If out of warranty, there is a part available from East coast gear supply to replace the needle bearings with a bushing. The underlying issue is a bad casting in the diff carrier that allows for too much deflection, which eventually wears out the needle bearings, they are not designed to be a supportive structure. Toyota should be machining the casting to tighten up the clearances and eliminate the slop.. You would have thought they would have caught on by now since this has been going on for over 10 years now.

 

[JSparky]

It's most likely the needle bearings on the drivers side of the diff. Get down there and check for play where the inner CV shaft goes into the diff.. There should be no play. It is a very common problem on all 2005 + Toyota 120/150s. . If out of warranty, there is a part available from East coast gear supply to replace the needle bearings with a bushing. The underlying issue is a bad casting in the diff carrier that allows for too much deflection, which eventually wears out the needle bearings, they are not designed to be a supportive structure. Toyota should be machining the casting to tighten up the clearances and eliminate the slop.. You would have thought they would have caught on by now since this has been going on for over 10 years now.

I thought the needle bearing issue was in 2wd, but went away in 4wd? OP states they are getting vibes in 4wd only.

 

[wfo9]

I thought the needle bearing issue was in 2wd, but went away in 4wd? OP states they are getting vibes in 4wd only.

I think it can be both.. totally depends on the harmonics of things. Usually it will tighten up in 4wd, vs coasting on the side gears.. but a bunch of play can cause all types of interesting behaviors...

I would think some slight vibration in 4wd is kind of expected on a part time system at high speed. Not sure how/when you call it a problem. It will most likely keep working like that for a long time.

 

[jrandom]

In the manual you'll read that the part time 4wd system in sr5 and trail edition 4runner's is not intended to drive past 55 (or is is 45?) mph in 4wd. Again, check the manual.

I want to politely call BS on that. Where did you read that? Have you got a page number? You are not supposed to shift in greater 50 mph with lever, 62 with dail, it says nothing about driving faster than them. I have had part-time 4wd toyotas my entire life (apart from an 84' sub wagon) and have never had issues or seen anything that says you're not to exceed those values.

 

[JSparky]

I think it can be both.. totally depends on the harmonics of things. Usually it will tighten up in 4wd, vs coasting on the side gears.. but a bunch of play can cause all types of interesting behaviors...

I would think some slight vibration in 4wd is kind of expected on a part time system at high speed. Not sure how/when you call it a problem. It will most likely keep working like that for a long time.

Makes sense. I'm used to hearing this from Tacoma owners and their general rule of thumb is to engage 4wd as a test of sorts.. but yea that doesn't mean it would solve the problem altogether. When I saw the op state that it occurs in 4wd but not 2wd I ruled out the needle bearings cause it's opposite of what usually happens.

 

[JSparky]

I want to politely call BS on that. Where did you read that? Have you got a page number? You are not supposed to shift in/out greater 50 mph with lever, 62 with dail, it says nothing about driving faster than them. I have had part-time 4wd toyotas my entire life (apart from an 84' sub wagon) and have never had issues or seen anything that says you're not to exceed those values.

Fair enough, I confused speed at which you can engage 4wd with top speed in gear.. I imagine you could go as fast as you want in any drive mode. Either way I'll stand behind my advice to reduce speed prior to relying on 4wd, some may disagree but that's what I've been taught. Thanks for catching that I don't like spreading false info.

 

[johnbt]

"You are not supposed to shift in/out greater 50 mph with lever"

I'm looking at page 233 of the manual that came with my '16 TEP. It says to reduce speed to "less than 50" to shift from H2 to H4. I've seen nothing about shifting out of H4 in this chapter, but I suppose it could be buried in the back of the book somewhere. Mine comes out of H4 smoothly at speeds up to 70, although I haven't tried it while accelerating, only with a quick lift of the foot off the pedal while I pull the lever.

I'm curious to see what's causing the 4wd vibration. My first guess is always tires.

Oops, time to get the girlfriend off to work, I'm retired and somebody has to make some money.

John

 

[e60ral]

^why would tires only cause vibration in 4wd?

 

[bofa]

Seriously, part-time 4wd is for use on surfaces where you are expecting tire slippage. Why is anyone using it at 50-70 mph?

The "vibration" is most likely binding on a surface that doesnt require 4WD. That or you already screwed up something by doing this repeatedly.

 

[Watchdogg]

Seriously, part-time 4wd is for use on surfaces where you are expecting tire slippage. Why is anyone using it at 50-70 mph?

The "vibration" is most likely binding on a surface that doesnt require 4WD. That or you already screwed up something by doing this repeatedly.

Well said.

 

[wfo9]

Seriously, part-time 4wd is for use on surfaces where you are expecting tire slippage. Why is anyone using it at 50-70 mph?

The "vibration" is most likely binding on a surface that doesnt require 4WD. That or you already screwed up something by doing this repeatedly.

It won't bind at 50/70 mph. If you are going that fast... no chance of binding unless you attempt a hairpin turn and end up sliding...

I'll agree those speeds should not necessitate 4wd in a part time system, but it should not hurt anything either.

 

[bofa]

It won't bind at 50/70 mph. If you are going that fast... no chance of binding unless you attempt a hairpin turn and end up sliding...

I'll agree those speeds should not necessitate 4wd in a part time system, but it should not hurt anything either.

Tire pressure differences, vehicle load, and curves can all cause minor binding. You're just asking for trouble if you arent giving the drivetrain a way to release differential tension.

 

[jrandom]

"You are not supposed to shift in/out greater 50 mph with lever"

...I'm looking at page 233 of the manual that came with my '16 TEP. It says to reduce speed to "less than 50" to shift from H2 to H4. I've seen nothing about shifting out of H4 in this chapter, but I suppose it could be buried in the back of the book somewhere. Mine comes out of H4 smoothly at speeds up to 70, although I haven't tried it while accelerating...

You are correct in correcting my correction :redface: :hello:

Tire pressure differences, vehicle load, and curves can all cause minor binding. You're just asking for trouble if you arent giving the drivetrain a way to release differential tension.

Sure but this system is not that tight. Toyota has been building part-time 4wd for decades, I could certainly be wrong, it just doesn't seem all that common, trashed 4wd components, you see more issues with steering racks. IMO

While I would tend to agree that a more cautious driving would not be traveling that fast in such conditions, there are often times out west (you should know being in CO), where you run into variably intermittent weather patches along vast stretches of highway. I would prefer to leave it engaged during such times.

You could see acceleration vibration from an out of balance driveline or bad spider joint too. Hell there could be mud pack on the forward driveshaft that could cause wobble.

 

[johnbt]

"You are correct in correcting my correction"

What do I know, manuals for different years could say something totally different. :shrug:

 

[Drheim]

Thanks for the input guys. I have an SR5 with just the basic full time 4WD. So the tires do fight you when making really tight turns in 4WD, etc and my 2003 Tacoma with TRD was the same way. The closest thing I saw to an answer was "It's most likely the needle bearings on the drivers side of the diff", but it sounds like that is debatable for being the issue when only in 4WD. I am thinking I will take it to the dealer and see if they can figure out what it is. My concern is that the dealer will have some trouble figuring it out as well, so if anyone has any other ideas let me know. I am worried about it being a lack of grease in a forward u-joint or something like that, but I do not know much.

On my Forerunner, it will not allow you to change from 2WD to 4WD or vice-versa above 60MPH. It will make a beep until you slow below 60 mph and you have to try again. So basically, Toyota will keep you from screwing it up if you are not paying attention. My Tacoma was 55mph. Anyone that thinks you do not need to go that fast in 4WD, or that some vibration is normal at that speed in 4WD, or that you do not need 4WD at those speeds, has never spent much time in places that get a lot of snow. There are thousands of 4WD vehicles that cruise through I-70 every single day in the winter out here and trust me when I tell you that you 90% of the people that live around here go faster than 60mph on snowpacked interstates and nobody shifts down to 2WD thinking they do not need 4WD at that speed. I-70 gets cleared, but it also shuts down to snow at least 30 times per year and ever when it is clear it stays snowpacked until the sun comes out. It is just a different world, but so many people do this so often that I have to think Toyota has to engineer their vehicles to go 80 in 4WD. Some people might not think that is smart, and it might not be, but thousands of people do it every single day out here. When you are coming down a mountain pass at 60mph and have to reduce speed for any reason, is when you can get in a lot of trouble. People do that all the time as well, but from someone who use to drive Vail pass ever single day for years I usually slow it down on the downhill side. I think Toyota's main engineering concern is they just do not want you changing from 2WD to 4WD when going tabove 50-60mpg, but it sounded like another post mentioned some newer 4runners can make the change at higher speeds.

 

[can0nfan2379]

It's most likely the needle bearings on the drivers side of the diff. Get down there and check for play where the inner CV shaft goes into the diff.. There should be no play. It is a very common problem on all 2005 + Toyota 120/150s. . If out of warranty, there is a part available from East coast gear supply to replace the needle bearings with a bushing. The underlying issue is a bad casting in the diff carrier that allows for too much deflection, which eventually wears out the needle bearings, they are not designed to be a supportive structure. Toyota should be machining the casting to tighten up the clearances and eliminate the slop.. You would have thought they would have caught on by now since this has been going on for over 10 years now.

I was interested in this. I currently have a Tacoma and have been thinking of trading in for a runner. I was curious if 4runner's had the needle bearing issue like Tacoma's if lifted more than 2.5".

 

[e60ral]

I was interested in this. I currently have a Tacoma and have been thinking of trading in for a runner. I was curious if 4runner's had the needle bearing issue like Tacoma's if lifted more than 2.5".

they have needle bearing problems bone stock low mileage