WEIRD: Reverse fine, drive held back then breaks free?

[NYState4Runner]

Hey there guys,

The issue I am having is driving me crazy!

When I first start my car and the engine is cold, let it settle for like 30 secs, I shift into reverse and back out of my spot, but when I shift to drive it just sits there. Then when I apply throttle is feels like it tenses up of sorts, not a freely rev, and it either drives through it or sometimes it breaks free. Afterwards it drives fine stopping and starting all throughout its use, until its sits again for a few hours.

I drive up and down lots off steep hills and go offroading, it has never shifted weird or done any jolting after warming up from the initial start.

Need help diagnosing please!!

Part of me wants to say its the rear brakes because i can feel the torque building, then driving through / breaking free. My driveway is also really steep and once the rear tire locked when I was rolling slowly applying brakes to stop at the end (asphalt).

But then why would reversing be fine 100% of the time. literally can be cold start put it in reverse and it rolls back on its own no throttle, put into drive and it sits there. Gas makes it tense up either eventually rolls through and drives off or if more throttle it will go with a jolt.

 

[NYState4Runner]

New rotors and pads in front, new torque converter installed not long ago, no drippy leaks, transmission fluid seems full? will check again, no pink smoothie (cooler mod), no CEL

 

[Bad Luck]

New rotors and pads in front, new torque converter installed not long ago, no drippy leaks, transmission fluid seems full? will check again, no pink smoothie (cooler mod), no CEL

Have you pulled your rear drums off and looked at everything?
Have you checked your rear axle seals for signs of leaking?
Do you use your parking brake?
Have you checked your bell cranks for sticking?

 

[NYState4Runner]

Have you pulled your rear drums off and looked at everything?
Have you checked your rear axle seals for signs of leaking?
Do you use your parking brake?
Have you checked your bell cranks for sticking?

Why would reverse be okay? is it a much higher ratio than 1st gear?

I have not inspected the rear drums, would that only be visible by removing? How hard to do?

I have before but not all the time, it does have tension on the lever within a few clicks, no slop really.

I have no clue what those are, but I will google them.

In terms of diagnosing:

I am going to let my car warm up 100% and see if it does it then, if it is the brakes then they should still be cold while trans is warm.

I could do a hill test this evening when I park home from work, let it cool down and see if it will roll forwards in neutral?

 

[OpenYota]

I’m not trying to jump to the worst possible scenario but I was in a similar predicament with my 3rd gen earlier this year.
Most mornings when the car was cold I would put it into reverse and it would just rev as if it were in neutral and would take 5-10 seconds to slowly get into gear and move.
I would have to let it warm up for 30-60 seconds for it to do it’s job.
One day I didn’t let it warm up and I pushed it a little hard to move and ended up going up a steep incline road quickly after and the transmission died.
I recommend taking it to a reputable transmission shop and having it diagnosed.
Fingers crossed it’s something to do with the brakes.

 

[NYState4Runner]

I’m not trying to jump to the worst possible scenario but I was in a similar predicament with my 3rd gen earlier this year.
Most mornings when the car was cold I would put it into reverse and it would just rev as if it were in neutral and would take 5-10 seconds to slowly get into gear and move.
I would have to let it warm up for 30-60 seconds for it to do it’s job.
One day I didn’t let it warm up and I pushed it a little hard to move and ended up going up a steep incline road quickly after and the transmission died.
I recommend taking it to a reputable transmission shop and having it diagnosed.
Fingers crossed it’s something to do with the brakes.

Mine is different, reverse will roll, when put into drive I have tension and torque no free revving, then it feels like it pushes through or breaks free. Totally fine everything else, shifts like butter when cruising and shifts firm when I give it some.

 

[NYState4Runner]

I’m not trying to jump to the worst possible scenario but I was in a similar predicament with my 3rd gen earlier this year.
Most mornings when the car was cold I would put it into reverse and it would just rev as if it were in neutral and would take 5-10 seconds to slowly get into gear and move.
I would have to let it warm up for 30-60 seconds for it to do it’s job.
One day I didn’t let it warm up and I pushed it a little hard to move and ended up going up a steep incline road quickly after and the transmission died.
I recommend taking it to a reputable transmission shop and having it diagnosed.
Fingers crossed it’s something to do with the brakes.

Rear drums leaking or just dirty?

what do you think about that? Tejas seems to have same issue...

 

[Bad Luck]

Why would reverse be okay? is it a much higher ratio than 1st gear?

I have not inspected the rear drums, would that only be visible by removing? How hard to do?

I have before but not all the time, it does have tension on the lever within a few clicks, no slop really.

I have no clue what those are, but I will google them.

In terms of diagnosing:

I am going to let my car warm up 100% and see if it does it then, if it is the brakes then they should still be cold while trans is warm.

I could do a hill test this evening when I park home from work, let it cool down and see if it will roll forwards in neutral?

Remove the drum and see if anything looks out of place or wet. The bell cranks are located on the back of the drums and should be almost touching the backing plate when the parking brake isn't engaged. Apply the parking brake and make sure both sides are moving. Here's what you are looking for: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/2770882-post2.html The bell crank is the lever and in that picture it is shown with the parking brake disengaged.

 

[NYState4Runner]

Remove the drum and see if anything looks out of place or wet. The bell cranks are located on the back of the drums and should be almost touching the backing plate when the parking brake isn't engaged. Apply the parking brake and make sure both sides are moving. Here's what you are looking for: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/2770882-post2.html The bell crank is the lever and in that picture it is shown with the parking brake disengaged.

Can you explain this a bit more on the adjusting side? confused what to do people are talking about 0.4-0.8 mm gaps, is that when brake is engaged?

Also what is the star screw? is there another way to adjust?

 

[Bad Luck]

Can you explain this a bit more on the adjusting side? confused what to do people are talking about 0.4-0.8 mm gaps, is that when brake is engaged?

Also what is the star screw? is there another way to adjust?

There is an adjustment bolt on the bell crank that if adjusted correctly should have a small gap between the tip of the bolt and the backing plate with the parking brake disengaged. The main thing you need to verify is that the bell cranks move when you engage/disengage the parking brake.

EDIT: There is an attachment in this post: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/1554624-post4.html that explains the bell crank replacement/adjustment procedure. That should give you a better idea of what you are looking for.

 

[NYState4Runner]

There is an adjustment bolt on the bell crank that if adjusted correctly should have a small gap between the tip of the bolt and the backing plate with the parking brake disengaged. The main thing you need to verify is that the bell cranks move when you engage/disengage the parking brake.

EDIT: There is an attachment in this post: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/1554624-post4.html that explains the bell crank replacement/adjustment procedure. That should give you a better idea of what you are looking for.

Okay, I read into the procedures regarding the e-brake, I will check to see if the bellcranks are stuck. Do you have any idea why it doesnt like drive rather than reverse? saw you on tejasrunners thread: Rear drums leaking or just dirty?

 

[Bad Luck]

Okay, I read into the procedures regarding the e-brake, I will check to see if the bellcranks are stuck. Do you have any idea why it doesnt like drive rather than reverse? saw you on tejasrunners thread: Rear drums leaking or just dirty?

I don't have any ideas or explanations other than something may be wrong with your rear drums/shoes. You could have a broke shoe retainer/pin and it gets hung up in one direction or any number of freak occurrences, but I would start with inspecting the rear brakes and parking brake. I don't mean to be rude, but it doesn't sound like you are very familiar with drum brakes and you may want to consider taking it to a mechanic and having them inspect it. They would probably have a better chance of determining if there is something out of place/broken/etc

 

[NYState4Runner]

I don't have any ideas or explanations other than something may be wrong with your rear drums/shoes. You could have a broke shoe retainer/pin and it gets hung up in one direction or any number of freak occurrences, but I would start with inspecting the rear brakes and parking brake. I don't mean to be rude, but it doesn't sound like you are very familiar with drum brakes and you may want to consider taking it to a mechanic and having them inspect it. They would probably have a better chance of determining if there is something out of place/broken/etc

You are not wrong! I have had a truck in the past but never even had to think about brakes. First time learning about and dealing with rear drums. I did make an appointment to get it looked at, just worried it wont do the symptom for the mechanic, as today on my lunch break it operated totally normally.

 

[Bad Luck]

You are not wrong! I have had a truck in the past but never even had to think about brakes. First time learning about and dealing with rear drums. I did make an appointment to get it looked at, just worried it wont do the symptom for the mechanic, as today on my lunch break it operated totally normally.

You might consider leaving it overnight with the mechanic and letting them know it happens when you first move it after letting it sit overnight.

 

[NYState4Runner]

You might consider leaving it overnight with the mechanic and letting them know it happens when you first move it after letting it sit overnight.

I’m not trying to jump to the worst possible scenario but I was in a similar predicament with my 3rd gen earlier this year.
Most mornings when the car was cold I would put it into reverse and it would just rev as if it were in neutral and would take 5-10 seconds to slowly get into gear and move.
I would have to let it warm up for 30-60 seconds for it to do it’s job.
One day I didn’t let it warm up and I pushed it a little hard to move and ended up going up a steep incline road quickly after and the transmission died.
I recommend taking it to a reputable transmission shop and having it diagnosed.
Fingers crossed it’s something to do with the brakes.

Toyota dealer got back to me, I was correct. It was indeed the rear drums being out of wack causing a lockup situation after cooling in place. Unsure of the exact cause currently but I will ask for more info when I pick it up.

The tech experienced exactly what I had said: put it in drive, felt it engage, foot off the brake and you feel it move slightly but is held back, you give throttle and you hear / feel it torqueing up, then it either drives through the hold up or breaks it loose never to repeat again till sitting for a few hours.

If anyone experiences this besides me hopefully you find this thread.