Weird shake/vibration

[clanofwolves]

My '00 has 215k and is well kept. Here's the new issue that has me wondering:

Under acceleration, at 1400 rpms a shake occurs through 1800 rpms akin to running over ropes stretched across the road; like the sensation when running over the groves cut in some country alerting you of a upcoming stop sign. Then at about 1900 rpms the rumble strip feeling alleviates and it is replaced by a deep harmonic hum that is quite the loud bass note. Above 2400 rpms these symptoms are gone and it seems to drive at highway speeds like a truck again. No symptoms in neutral throughout the rpm range.

Recent maintenance (last 10-20k):
New shocks
New inner and outer tie rod ends
New Michelin tires
New steering rack bushings
New plugs and wires

Ideas??????

 

[BigRig]

Couple Ideas

There are a couple threads on here that discuss similar issues that start in a slightly higher RPM range (2400ish if I recall) but essentially going away at the same point (~3000). I will search around and see if I can find them, I tried for a few minutes but couldn't.

I have similar issue in my 2000 LTD but haven't done anything about it yet so can't confirm with the suggested fixes work.

Off the top of my head the two things that resolved it were replacing the U Joints or replacing the motor/tranny mounts which were shot. I'll post back if I can find the specific threads I'm thinking of, but thought this might help.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I had a sticking caliper I chased for weeks with the same symptoms.

One question however, you're referencing rpm's. What kind of speeds are you doing? Are you shifting into neutral while moving and the problem goes away?

 

[clanofwolves]

Thanks for the thoughts so far guys!

So to test with a bit more detail, I added gear (auto Trans) and speed:
1) in L, the rumble (as I call it) occurs between 2600 and 3200 rpms at 22-24 mph. Above this rpm it disappears but the engine whine doesn't allow me to tell if there is the bass harmonic.
2) in 2, the rumble occurs between 2000 and 3200 rpms at 34-45 mph; then it pretty much disappates and again, the harmonic is drown if it exists.
3) in D (O/D off) the rumble occurs between 1400 and 3000 rpms at 24 to 55 mph, but is less consistent than above and seems to be tied into load change as cresting hills.
4) in D with O/D is same as original thread, the harmonic seems to only occur at higher highway speeds...as with the rumble, the harmonic dissipates if the transmission is put into Neutral regardless of speed.

This help???

Again, thanks!!

 

[clanofwolves]

One question however, you're referencing rpm's. What kind of speeds are you doing? Are you shifting into neutral while moving and the problem goes away?

Yes, it seems to just go away....so?

 

[BigRig]

Found older thread

So I was able to find one of the threads I was talking about, maybe this will help:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...000-rpm-under-acceleration-why-need-help.html
[MENTION=94063]slapdappy[/MENTION] - did you ever get anywhere with this?

There are a couple threads on here that discuss similar issues that start in a slightly higher RPM range (2400ish if I recall) but essentially going away at the same point (~3000). I will search around and see if I can find them, I tried for a few minutes but couldn't.

I have similar issue in my 2000 LTD but haven't done anything about it yet so can't confirm with the suggested fixes work.

Off the top of my head the two things that resolved it were replacing the U Joints or replacing the motor/tranny mounts which were shot. I'll post back if I can find the specific threads I'm thinking of, but thought this might help.

 

[slapdappy]

So I was able to find one of the threads I was talking about, maybe this will help:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...000-rpm-under-acceleration-why-need-help.html

[MENTION=94063]slapdappy[/MENTION] - did you ever get anywhere with this?

No, but mostly yes.
Roughness may be the wrong word. Less smooth and harmonious is better. It is not a pronounced shaking, just a subtle difference in the smoothness with which the engine otherwise runs.
There is still a noticeable, to me, range within which the engine becomes slightly less smooth. @ 2500 rpm, which coincides with the normal shift point. When in Neutral with Parking Brake the roughness is there just the same when I throttle up, so I know it is not drivetrain related.
I replaced the radiator fan because it was clearly warped. Improvement.
I loosened and retorqued the crankshaft nut to 217 lbs to be certain the main pulley was properly secured without any wobble.
I checked and adjusted the drive belt tension.
I checked for bearing play/wear in pulley shafts of a/c compressor, alternator, and whatever else is there.
I replaced the trans and motor mounts which noticeably improved some stuff, including clunk from shifting between R and D.
Ive wondered if it is fuel injector related, with slightly clogged injectors? have no ideas bc I ain't no mechanic. could be way off base. just don't know.
Maybe an adjustment of a linkage to the transmission?
Maybe a valve adjustment?
It is noticeably diminished.
I had a BG Induction Cleaning service done. If I was a millionaire I would have them do 2 more just to see if this reduced it and bc i like the idea of the induction system, including the injectors, being really clean.
What I need to do is put it up on ramps, get a fan blowing air through the radiator, and have a friend get the RPMs up while i try to find where it comes from.
I like Dr Coffee's story re tracing his issue to a broken alternator wire in the harness. post # 17, 19. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...acceleration-why-need-help-2.html#post1361206

 

[clanofwolves]

No, but mostly yes.
Roughness may be the wrong word. Less smooth and harmonious is better. It is not a pronounced shaking, just a subtle difference in the smoothness with which the engine otherwise runs.
There is still a noticeable, to me, range within which the engine becomes slightly less smooth. @ 2500 rpm, which coincides with the normal shift point. When in Neutral with Parking Brake the roughness is there just the same when I throttle up, so I know it is not drivetrain related.............What I need to do is put it up on ramps, get a fan blowing air through the radiator, and have a friend get the RPMs up while i try to find where it comes from.
I like Dr Coffee's story re tracing his issue to a broken alternator wire in the harness. post # 17, 19. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...acceleration-why-need-help-2.html#post1361206

Great thoughts in that thread, but I have one question: how do I lubricate the U-joints to see if they may be the culprit???

 

[slapdappy]

Great thoughts in that thread, but I have one question: how do I lubricate the U-joints to see if they may be the culprit???

Families have disintegrated, friendships ended, and good will turned bad due to differences of opinion re this matter.
Greasing the drive shaft (propeller shaft) may not eliminate vibration if the joints need replacement. It may reduce it. It may substantially improve it.
This is the best explanation I found: Mobil 1 synthetic grease nlgi no 2 | IH8MUD Forum

 

[clanofwolves]

No, but mostly yes.
Roughness may be the wrong word. Less smooth and harmonious is better. It is not a pronounced shaking, just a subtle difference in...................What I need to do is put it up on ramps, get a fan blowing air through the radiator, and have a friend get the RPMs up while i try to find where it comes from.
I like Dr Coffee's story re tracing his issue to a broken alternator wire in the harness. post # 17, 19. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...acceleration-why-need-help-2.html#post1361206

I replaced the fore and aft propeller shaft u-joints and, I have to say, they may be well designed, but only Satan himself would approve of their extraction process. There may be an easy way to remove them, but I didn't know that; geeeeeze!!

Anyway, upon driving it after the replacement, it was awesome and smooth. However, being my wife's vehicle, she informed me that the shake was back, then a quiet day, then yesterday she said its "real bad." ....she can exaggerate. However, I drove it and got some shake/vibration in the drivetrain (felt through the steering mostly) but oddly enough, after a stop to grab a bite, the shake/vibration was gone. Stopped again, still it seems to have vanished. She claimed it wasn't consistent. I tried different speeds and accelerations; couldn't find it. What was constant and awful is not annoying and inconsistent. Dancing frog??

Any ideas???????

 

[MStudt]

LBJ's? I had the same issue going on a couple weeks ago, just not as bad. I was having some pretty bad vibrations around 40mph+, and eve at highway speeds. I replaced my LBJ's and the vibrations are completely gone. At 215k, you had better hope the the LBJ's have already been replaced. If not, I would be changing them the first chance you have.

Put a jack under your front arms and jack up the front one side at a time. Grab your wheel at 9 and 3, and see if you have any play in it. You could have bod LBJ's or even wheel bearings. Wheel bearings are harder to replace since they need to be pressed.

 

[clanofwolves]

LBJ's? I had the same issue going on a couple weeks ago, just not as bad. I was having some pretty bad vibrations around 40mph+, and eve at highway speeds. I replaced my LBJ's and the vibrations are completely gone. At 215k, you had better hope the the LBJ's have already been replaced. If not, I would be changing them the first chance you have.

Put a jack under your front arms and jack up the front one side at a time. Grab your wheel at 9 and 3, and see if you have any play in it. You could have bod LBJ's or even wheel bearings. Wheel bearings are harder to replace since they need to be pressed.

Thanks for the ideas; I checked that once a few months ago before I started this thread of inquiry. Honestly I cannot tell if something gives or not very easy without a good baseline. Can you have someone look at the LBJs and tell as you 9 and 3 it? Is there a click, snap or bump if it's the LBJs or the wheel bearings? Does the movement feel different between the two? Also, in the past with other vehicles I've had, when the bearings are going, noises seem to predate any looseness and change in suspension feel, I assume toyota's are different?

Oh, and would the fact that this vibration only occurs sometimes alter your troubleshooting?

Sorry for the 1000 questions; thanks so much for your (and other 4R owners) insight!!!!!

 

[MStudt]

Thanks for the ideas; I checked that once a few months ago before I started this thread of inquiry. Honestly I cannot tell if something gives or not very easy without a good baseline. Can you have someone look at the LBJs and tell as you 9 and 3 it? Is there a click, snap or bump if it's the LBJs or the wheel bearings? Does the movement feel different between the two? Also, in the past with other vehicles I've had, when the bearings are going, noises seem to predate any looseness and change in suspension feel, I assume toyota's are different?

Oh, and would the fact that this vibration only occurs sometimes alter your troubleshooting?

Sorry for the 1000 questions; thanks so much for your (and other 4R owners) insight!!!!!

I didn't have any issues until I was over 40-45 mph. Also, on some roads I didn't have any issues at all, and on others it was pretty bad. I didn't feel any movement in mine, but others say you will. I went ahead and replaced mine since I knew it had to be done. I know you can take it to a dealer and they can mic the movement in the LBJ's. At that point you might as well just replace them though.

Now that I think about it you should really see if you have any movement while shaking at 12 and 6. Shaking at 9 and 3 won't give you a very accurate check since your steering is going to have a bit a play in it (or at least mine did). Do a visual inspection of your LBJ's too. Look to see if your boots are cracked, grease coming out from the boots, and so on.

 

[clanofwolves]

I didn't have any issues until I was over 40-45 mph. Also, on some roads I didn't have any issues at all, and on others it was pretty bad. I didn't feel any movement in mine, but others say you will. I went ahead and replaced mine since I knew it had to be done. I know you can take it to a dealer and they can mic the movement in the LBJ's. At that point you might as well just replace them though.

Now that I think about it you should really see if you have any movement while shaking at 12 and 6. Shaking at 9 and 3 won't give you a very accurate check since your steering is going to have a bit a play in it (or at least mine did). Do a visual inspection of your LBJ's too. Look to see if your boots are cracked, grease coming out from the boots, and so on.

I checked the tire movement, but alas, I just can't seem to know what I should feel in play like this, so I replaced the two lower ball joints. The good news is the shaking has ceased; bad news is the vibration/harmonic noise at highway speeds lingers on. So I guess I need to go ahead and replace the front wheel bearings? Is that where a humming, harmonic, irritating (without the rock station on) would orriginate?

 

[clanofwolves]

I didn't have any issues until I was over 40-45 mph. Also, on some roads I didn't have any issues at all, and on others it was pretty bad. I didn't feel any movement in mine, but others say you will. I went ahead and replaced mine since I knew it had to be done. I know you can take it to a dealer and they can mic the movement in the LBJ's. At that point you might as well just replace them though.

Now that I think about it you should really see if you have any movement while shaking at 12 and 6. Shaking at 9 and 3 won't give you a very accurate check since your steering is going to have a bit a play in it (or at least mine did). Do a visual inspection of your LBJ's too. Look to see if your boots are cracked, grease coming out from the boots, and so on.

I have now replaced the lower and upper ball joints and the front wheel bearings. The harmonic and a little shake at lower highway speeds lingers noticeably, but the wheel and steering is tight.

What other ideas are out there??? Thanks in advance!

 

[senor perfecto]

I have read this and... maybe it will help. I'll tell my mechanic.

 

[senor perfecto]

I have read this and... maybe it will help. I'll tell my mechanic.

By the way -- replaced the plugs and wires and good as new! Thank you!

 

[Wikano]

Do you feel the vibrations in your feet (trans/engine/brakes) or in your ass/love handles (rear end/ drive shaft vibrations)? If you think it may be drive-line related, I would check to see how much slip yolk play there is or your drive shaft just may be unbalanced.

I noticed at the lower RPM's, my old slip yolk would cause a vibration but at higher speeds/RPMs the torsional force would "hold it" in place.

 

[TXdragon4runner]

Check for zerk fittings - on my 2wd didnt have zerk fittings - replacement u-joints (timken) have them - i check periodically - but holding up well