Weird Vibration [Possibly bent rear axle shaft/flange?]

[kolelt]

Alright, yet another interesting topic from the one and only! As many know, my 4runner has been giving me none stop issues lately. It's been very discouraging. But I am still fighting lol! With that said. I haven't went wheeling since June. Which was in VA, Flag Pole Knob. Nothing extreme. After spending 2 days. On the way home, i started to feel a weird vibration on my truck. Hard to explain but it goes something like this. It starts to really feel around 30mph +. The vibration appears the moment you press on the gas pedal then it goes away. Unless you maintain "THAT PROPER" speed where you just feel it constantly! The vibration also happens when you let of the gas pedal. And its for few seconds then goes away. Not to long ago, I was going down a steep hill. Had the transmission in neutral (5speed). You could really feel the vibration as the truck was accelerating down the hill in neutral. Its almost like when you were young, and your bicycle did not have a true wheel.

Today I jacked up the rear end and starting looking at my rear axle shafts. I only visually inspected it. To my eye, it looks like the driver side rear axle shaft is bent or the flange is bent. The passenger side looks perfect. However I could be wrong. Yes, I know I should take of the spacers and drum and do another test.

But before I start buying axle shafts. I removed my rear driveshaft and brought it to a local driveshaft expert place called Mr.Driveshaft. https://www.mrdriveshaft.com/ I want them to check out the driveshaft and the double-cardan before I proceed to axle shafts. They told me they can and do have KOYO u-joints for the double-cardan if needed. So it can be rebuild. I will have them check it all out, fix anything that needs to be fixed. Probably have them replace the double-cardan u-joints anyways as the driveshaft has like 260k miles on it. Lets say something is wrong with the driveshaft or if its all good. I'll put it back in. And if the vibration is still there. That rules out the driveshaft/double-cardan. Then i'll proceed to the rear axle shaft that looks to be odd! But in the mean time.; Here are two small videos of the rear axle shaft. I know its very hard to see, but please bare with me. Just have to look very very closely. Really looks odd to me!

https://youtu.be/1p6Fwwn_2BY

https://youtu.be/D-IMyrnsEd8

Also, if it is the axle shaft. I was thinking about upgrading both to Yukon chromoly axles.

Yukon Gear | 4340 Chromoly 1979-2004 Toyota Axles

I must add, when I was wheeling at VA. I wasn't rough on it. It was rocky but I wasn't bouncing or anything.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Boy, you sure are a fighter! [emoji12][emoji1598]
I think having vibes is just to be expected when these things have 250-350k miles on em. Add some good off road time, and it just adds to the likelihood of things getting tweaked. As we've seen before, some of these things are REALLY hard to track down!
Now, I want to be clear here- when I say "just to be expected", I don't mean we should just live with the vibes. I'm all about fixing whatever is not rolling true. I went on a short 3hr road trip a couple weekends ago, and when I was an hour in, I hit a few miles of brand new PERFECTLY flat asphalt. I was expecting a glorious silent ride, but that's not what I got. I felt like I had MUCH more drivetrain noise than I should, but I can't hear it on all the normal rougher roads I drive on everyday. I almost turned around, but I didn't wanna bail on the Trail Jamboree I was headed to. I really want to figure out why it was/is so noisy, but I hardly know where to start. I'm wondering if my front driveline is too tightly compressed. Since the R150 is a good inch shorter than the A340, the stock front shaft is completely compressed. To the point it was very difficult to install it.
I see the run out you're talking about, and I agree it seems like it should not be like that. That being said, we're assuming those drums were cast perfectly even all around.
Have you done the same test with the wheels mounted? Does the wheel show a significant run out too?
I love the idea of all new KOYO joints and a fresh balance by a reputable shop. I should do the same on my shafts.

 

[kolelt]

Boy, you sure are a fighter! [emoji12][emoji1598]
I think having vibes is just to be expected when these things have 250-350k miles on em. Add some good off road time, and it just adds to the likelihood of things getting tweaked. As we've seen before, some of these things are REALLY hard to track down!
Now, I want to be clear here- when I say "just to be expected", I don't mean we should just live with the vibes. I'm all about fixing whatever is not rolling true. I went on a short 3hr road trip a couple weekends ago, and when I was an hour in, I hit a few miles of brand new PERFECTLY flat asphalt. I was expecting a glorious silent ride, but that's not what I got. I felt like I had MUCH more drivetrain noise than I should, but I can't hear it on all the normal rougher roads I drive on everyday. I almost turned around, but I didn't wanna bail on the Trail Jamboree I was headed to. I really want to figure out why it was/is so noisy, but I hardly know where to start. I'm wondering if my front driveline is too tightly compressed. Since the R150 is a good inch shorter than the A340, the stock front shaft is completely compressed. To the point it was very difficult to install it.
I see the run out you're talking about, and I agree it seems like it should not be like that. That being said, we're assuming those drums were cast perfectly even all around.
Have you done the same test with the wheels mounted? Does the wheel show a significant run out too?
I love the idea of all new KOYO joints and a fresh balance by a reputable shop. I should do the same on my shafts.

That’s another reason why I started this thread. If the driveshaft doesn’t fix the issue. And if the issue is the rear axle shaft. This can open up a way to fix driveline vibrations. The rear axle shaft seems to be never mentioned as the issue.

 

[nevada]

Alright, yet another interesting topic from the one and only! As many know, my 4runner has been giving me none stop issues lately. It's been very discouraging. But I am still fighting lol! With that said. I haven't went wheeling since June. Which was in VA, Flag Pole Knob. Nothing extreme. After spending 2 days. On the way home, i started to feel a weird vibration on my truck. Hard to explain but it goes something like this. It starts to really feel around 30mph +. The vibration appears the moment you press on the gas pedal then it goes away. Unless you maintain "THAT PROPER" speed where you just feel it constantly! The vibration also happens when you let of the gas pedal. And its for few seconds then goes away. Not to long ago, I was going down a steep hill. Had the transmission in neutral (5speed). You could really feel the vibration as the truck was accelerating down the hill in neutral. Its almost like when you were young, and your bicycle did not have a true wheel.

Today I jacked up the rear end and starting looking at my rear axle shafts. I only visually inspected it. To my eye, it looks like the driver side rear axle shaft is bent or the flange is bent. The passenger side looks perfect. However I could be wrong. Yes, I know I should take of the spacers and drum and do another test.

But before I start buying axle shafts. I removed my rear driveshaft and brought it to a local driveshaft expert place called Mr.Driveshaft. https://www.mrdriveshaft.com/ I want them to check out the driveshaft and the double-cardan before I proceed to axle shafts. They told me they can and do have KOYO u-joints for the double-cardan if needed. So it can be rebuild. I will have them check it all out, fix anything that needs to be fixed. Probably have them replace the double-cardan u-joints anyways as the driveshaft has like 260k miles on it. Lets say something is wrong with the driveshaft or if its all good. I'll put it back in. And if the vibration is still there. That rules out the driveshaft/double-cardan. Then i'll proceed to the rear axle shaft that looks to be odd! But in the mean time.; Here are two small videos of the rear axle shaft. I know its very hard to see, but please bare with me. Just have to look very very closely. Really looks odd to me!

https://youtu.be/1p6Fwwn_2BY

https://youtu.be/D-IMyrnsEd8

Also, if it is the axle shaft. I was thinking about upgrading both to Yukon chromoly axles.

Yukon Gear | 4340 Chromoly 1979-2004 Toyota Axles

I must add, when I was wheeling at VA. I wasn't rough on it. It was rocky but I wasn't bouncing or anything.

based on your description, it sounds like a u-joint. if it was a bent flange, the vibration would be there always.


as to those videos, you cannot trust the run-out on the drum. you would have pull to the spacer and the drum, and get down to the axle flange itself.


that said, it still might have some deflection. they actually do bend fairly easily, but it usually takes quite bit before you can really start feeling it. so don't be too alarmed if it does have some run-out.

 

[dogtail]

That looks suspect for sure. When the tire is on there, the diameter is more making the distance of movement more.
I got rid of all my 300k multiple vibrations with new driveshaft and all rear end bearings. My pinion bearing was really bad and had a lot of slop. Now its smooth as silk all the way up to 90 mph.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[kolelt]

So few weeks back. I replaced the rear u-joint on the driveshaft. Which did not fix the issue. And everything else seemed tight when the driveshaft was out. So it will be interesting. I hope it’s just the driveshaft. Because it won’t be cheap and easy to fix the axle shafts. If it’s bent.

But I agree. I should remove the spacer and drum. Then recheck it all again. Which I will after I get my driveshaft back.

 

[nevada]

if it ends up needing an axle, finding a good used one might be easier, and definitely cheaper.

 

[dogtail]

So few weeks back. I replaced the rear u-joint on the driveshaft. Which did not fix the issue. And everything else seemed tight when the driveshaft was out. So it will be interesting. I hope it’s just the driveshaft. Because it won’t be cheap and easy to fix the axle shafts. If it’s bent.

But I agree. I should remove the spacer and drum. Then recheck it all again. Which I will after I get my driveshaft back.

I've found that driveshaft vibration issues on these 3rd gens have tell tale signature failure vibration at about 60-70mph. In the 30 mph range that you said you have, seems too low speed for what you say is happening.
With tire wobble the vibrations can change and get better at higher speeds, "blurring" the vibration.
Anyway sounds like a fresh driveshaft rebuild would be good at your mileage anyway, so not a waste.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[kolelt]

if it ends up needing an axle, finding a good used one might be easier, and definitely cheaper.

I agree to a certain extent. I’m so tired at this point. I don’t care. I’ll buy a new chromoly one. Stronger then oem. And it will be only $300. Then I’ll get new backplates and new bearings.

Again, if the driveshaft does not fix the issue. I’m also trying to raise awareness that something like a axle shaft or flange being bent could be missed. I’ll definitely keep this updated.

 

[Mark_BC]

Today I got pissed off behind moron left turners who don't leave enough space for me to go by even though they easily could. So I went up the sidewalk and have him a nice engine roar. Front went up fine but the back was a little too parallel. I was worried I might have bent the shaft but no vibes up past 60

 

[kolelt]

Today I got pissed off behind moron left turners who don't leave enough space for me to go by even though they easily could. So I went up the sidewalk and have him a nice engine roar. Front went up fine but the back was a little too parallel. I was worried I might have bent the shaft but no vibes up past 60

I wish I could record the sound/vibration. But I don’t think the iPhone will register it. However this one user from yotatech has the best word description of the symptoms I’m having !! But not so much my steering wheel. More like the whole truck/ass part of it.

“My problem is this: from speeds about 55-75 it shakes pretty bad, seems like the whole car shakes as well as the steering wheel. It also makes a louder than normal tire noise, almost like I'm driving on the groves on the edge of a highway. Originally it would only do this between the speeds of 60-70.

If I let of the gas it immediately stops the shaking but the moment I touch the gas pedal, even the slightest pressure, it starts again. ”

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/vibration-shaking-driving-me-crazy-209700/index2.html
POST #29

 

[kolelt]

That looks suspect for sure. When the tire is on there, the diameter is more making the distance of movement more.
I got rid of all my 300k multiple vibrations with new driveshaft and all rear end bearings. My pinion bearing was really bad and had a lot of slop. Now its smooth as silk all the way up to 90 mph.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I see what your saying about it if the tire is on it. Makes sense. Funny you speak about pinion bearing. Because few weeks ago. I had the 3rd member out because I needed to re apply the silicone so the gear oil wouldn’t leak. With that said. Me and my friend , we double checked the gears inside along with the pinion and so. All is good.
[MENTION=116470]Tyler James Inc[/MENTION] just none stop bs hahah. From new silicone to everything lol.

 

[kolelt]

Me.driveshaft just called. The double cardan is I good shape. All issues are in the rear of the drive shaft. The slip yoke is missing the plug. ( I don’t remember if it was there or not when I got the driveshaft from manual swap) if it was there, that means my driveshaft is to long and when the suspension flexes it pushed it out. Also the rear u-joint is no good and it’s out of balance. He’s going to fix all that. I’m goong to give him flange to flange measurement so he can tell me if my driveshaft is good with the amount of lift I have. I’m running ome861 with 15mm OME spacer on each coil for little extra rake.

 

[nevada]

you might want to rethink the chromoly axles.

unless things have changed(its possible, its been a few years) the aftermarket chromo axles were marginally stronger than the stock stuff. in fact some of them were even weaker. certainly not worth the money. seen many stories of the replacement axles snapping where a stock axle wasn't even phased.

but, like I said, it may be different now. is there anyone out there testing axles anymore?

 

[kolelt]

you might want to rethink the chromoly axles.

unless things have changed(its possible, its been a few years) the aftermarket chromo axles were marginally stronger than the stock stuff. in fact some of them were even weaker. certainly not worth the money. seen many stories of the replacement axles snapping where a stock axle wasn't even phased.

but, like I said, it may be different now. is there anyone out there testing axles anymore?

Interesting. I’ve seen the opposite. OEM brand new is to expensive. Don’t really want to go oem used because I just don’t trust it. And Yukon is a good brand. My friend has a s10 SAS swap. Kept eating stock axles. Swapped to chromoly and all good. Not to mention Yukon is lifetime warranty.

 

[nevada]

oh, I am very specifically talking about Toyota axles.
all others, yes the aftermarket stuff was much stronger.

 

[Tatonka]

Before you go down other more expensive fixes try seeing if you can make the vibration stop by putting it in 4wd. I had similar vibes at the speeds mentioned and another forum member pegged the issue for me with this suggestion. If 4wd stops the vibe then this is what you need...

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-8536125-toyota-8-clamshell-bushing-eliminates-needle-bearing.html



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kolelt]

Before you go down other more expensive fixes try seeing if you can make the vibration stop by putting it in 4wd. I had similar vibes at the speeds mentioned and another forum member pegged the issue for me with this suggestion. If 4wd stops the vibe then this is what you need...

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-8536125-toyota-8-clamshell-bushing-eliminates-needle-bearing.html



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotch ya. Looks like it’s only for the front.

 

[kolelt]

So little update. Got the driveshaft back. The MOOG U-Joint that was in the back is bad quality. These moog u joints don’t have good tolerance. So they replaced it with much better one along with proper clicks to so there is no play. They also fixed the plug for the slip yoke. I was missing one. And balanced it out.

A big big difference !! So the vibration is A LOT LESS then it was. However it is still there. But dramatically less. I have to remove everything of the rear and double check to make sure the axle shaft or flange is not bent.

I also have to check if the vibration goes away in 4wd. If it does then I’ll try to get this

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-8536125-toyota-8-clamshell-bushing-eliminates-needle-bearing.html

My question is. Could it be related to front drive shaft ? Even though your in 2 wheel drive. Could the front cause vibrations ?

 

[kolelt]

[SOLVED]

Pinion bolt was lose. The pinion has play. Grabbed the rear u-joint area/flange. Gave it a good wiggle and could see the pinion move slightly. Tighten the pinion bolt and it went away. However I have a whine now. So I’ll have to remove the 3rd member and readjust the backlash on the gears. So for anyone with a vibration issue. Check this!