What causes death wobble when it's not the brakes?

[sdwaltz]

Hey guys,

I had the very common "death wobble" while for about a year until I had the brake pads, rotors, hoses, and calipers replaced this past May along with a total flushing of the brake system. They also replaced the sway bar links while they were down there because they apparently were broken. At the time, I was told the rear brakes were fine and didn't need replacement.

When all of that was replaced, it got a LOT better but it still wasn't perfect. Since then, it slowly seems to be coming back. The mechanic told me that the CV axle was leaking but I elected not to fix that because I already had so much other stuff that was being done (this was done the same day I bought 4 tires). Could the leaking CV axle be causing the issue? Again, this occurs ONLY when braking, and not all the time.

 

[Acorn22]

CVs shouldn't cause this, I drove around with front axles pretty much missing the upper boot because they ripped off for the past year and I had no symptoms like you.

However, your rear brakes could be wearing unevenly causing a shake when breaking (bad pistons). You could also try rebedding in your brake pads to eliminate uneven bite on your rotors. Just a couple initial thoughts..

 

[gamefreakgc]

Are you hard on your brakes or live near a large hill that you need to be heavy on the brakes to a complete stop? It's probably pad material that is not spread evenly on the surface of the front rotors. I had that issue when I did some spirited runs outside of town and had to com to a complete stop, leaving a nice pad-shaped imprint on my rotors that made them wobble again.

Re-bedding the brakes should help clear it up. Google "how to bed your brakes" if you're not sure what's involved. If you have some open, straight roads near your house you can do it in 5 minutes.

 

[sdwaltz]

Are you hard on your brakes or live near a large hill that you need to be heavy on the brakes to a complete stop? It's probably pad material that is not spread evenly on the surface of the front rotors. I had that issue when I did some spirited runs outside of town and had to com to a complete stop, leaving a nice pad-shaped imprint on my rotors that made them wobble again.

Re-bedding the brakes should help clear it up. Google "how to bed your brakes" if you're not sure what's involved. If you have some open, straight roads near your house you can do it in 5 minutes.

I'm generally not too hard on my brakes...or, at least, I don't think I am.

Thanks to both of you for making the suggestion to bed the brakes - looks pretty easy and straightforward so once I can find the correct place to do it, I'll give that a shot and see what happens.

 

[thegipper]

Are you truly experiencing "death wobble" or do you just have a shake/vibration? Having owned a ZJ that had "death wobble" it is not a simple vibration or shake, it literally feels like the entire front end is going to rip itself apart.

The pan hard bar (aka track bar) in the rear of the truck can cause a death wobble if the bolts are loose or the mounts (bolt holes) are elongated or worn. The pan hard bar is the main component that centers the rear axle under the truck.

There are a ton of things in the front that can cause a vibration or shaking (control arms/bushings, tie rod ends, LJB's/UBJ's, steering rack/bushings etc etc).

 

[thennen]

I had a similar issue on my 2001 after replacing the rotors. Bad wobble when braking, felt for all the world like warped rotor(s). Replaced them again, got better, then worse over time. Took it to a dealership, who diagnosed warped rotors and replaced them with OEM (I had been using aftermarket). All good afterward, and it's been 2+ years now. The guy at the dealership couldn't say exactly why, other than perhaps the density of the steel is uneven in the aftermarket (china?) ones, causing them to heat unevenly during braking. That makes sense to me, especially since the problem is gone. AND a big plus, they did that replacement for free, which they really weren't obligated to do.

 

[curryT4R]

I had a similar issue on my 2001 after replacing the rotors. Bad wobble when braking, felt for all the world like warped rotor(s). Replaced them again, got better, then worse over time. Took it to a dealership, who diagnosed warped rotors and replaced them with OEM (I had been using aftermarket). All good afterward, and it's been 2+ years now. The guy at the dealership couldn't say exactly why, other than perhaps the density of the steel is uneven in the aftermarket (china?) ones, causing them to heat unevenly during braking. That makes sense to me, especially since the problem is gone. AND a big plus, they did that replacement for free, which they really weren't obligated to do.

When i was working in the shop I would constantly have customers come in complaining about either brake noise or brake vibration.
9 times out of 10 when I look the vehicle over they have aftermarket brake pads and rotors (usually brand new)
I tell them we have to start by replacing with OEM and obviously they refuse.

Toyota/Lexus tend to HATE aftermarket brakes. They will almost always make noise or have brake pulsation pretty quickly. I will almost always recommend OEM brake parts.

 

[nevada]

Hey guys,

I had the very common "death wobble" while for about a year until I had the brake pads, rotors, hoses, and calipers replaced this past May along with a total flushing of the brake system. They also replaced the sway bar links while they were down there because they apparently were broken. At the time, I was told the rear brakes were fine and didn't need replacement.

When all of that was replaced, it got a LOT better but it still wasn't perfect. Since then, it slowly seems to be coming back. The mechanic told me that the CV axle was leaking but I elected not to fix that because I already had so much other stuff that was being done (this was done the same day I bought 4 tires). Could the leaking CV axle be causing the issue? Again, this occurs ONLY when braking, and not all the time.

its the rotors. try this.


Bedding In Brake Rotors



it is quite a process, and to do it correctly it can take a fair amount of time.

the biggest issue I run into is finding a road that I can safely perform this on. traffic gets in the way...

 

[T4R2014]

Poor quality brake parts can often be a factor. The front ends of these are quite picky honestly.

 

[redstar]

I am going to highly recommend that you jack up the truck, put it on jack stands and start checking the front end components. Honestly, just grab the parts and shake them. If they move in directions they shouldn't, you should replace them.

I had bad wobble from my outer tie rod ends being worn to hell. I replaced my CVs thinking they were the culprit; it greatly reduced the wobble, but it turns out they were very much not the cause. I got very lucky. The mechanics at the shop I got my new tires mounted at noticed how loose they were. I could dead if it weren't for them.

The most important things (that I can think of) in the front end for you to check are:
- Inner and outer tie rod ends
- Lower ball joints
- Upper ball joints

While I still recommend checking those things, your rear brakes might actually have been the culprit since you've already replaced the front brakes. If the original cause of the wobble was the front brakes, then it would have caused pulsed loading to the rear brakes which could have warped them too. Since the front brakes do ~70% of the actual braking, replacing them would have mostly fixed the problem. But since you didn't replace the rear brakes, they too would have caused pulsed loading to the FRONT brakes now.

So check BOTH sets of brakes. You could do that by jacking the truck up and applying light braking while manually rotating the wheels.

If it does end up being the brakes, it might be worth the investment to do the 231mm or 199mm Tundra Brake Upgrade since the stock brakes on our trucks are fairly underpowered.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Are you truly experiencing "death wobble" or do you just have a shake/vibration? Having owned a ZJ that had "death wobble" it is not a simple vibration or shake, it literally feels like the entire front end is going to rip itself apart.

Exactly.

Death wobble is usually found on solid front axle trucks.

What you are experiencing is probably just wobble.

 

[BrianSD_42]

From what I hear, owning a JEEP is what causes "death wobble". It is a topic that is rarely if ever mentioned in the 3rd gen 4Runner section.

Again, this occurs ONLY when braking, and not all the time.

Now this sounds more like shaking or pulsating brakes. Usually the fix is to shave/turn the rotors and get new pads for the front brakes.

.

 

[theesotericone]

Having owned a ZJ that had "death wobble" it is not a simple vibration or shake, it literally feels like the entire front end is going to rip itself apart.

Death wobble is usually found on solid front axle trucks.

owning a JEEP is what causes "death wobble".

 

[fourwd1]

Are you truly experiencing "death wobble" or do you just have a shake/vibration? Having owned a ZJ that had "death wobble" it is not a simple vibration or shake, it literally feels like the entire front end is going to rip itself apart.

The pan hard bar (aka track bar) in the rear of the truck can cause a death wobble if the bolts are loose or the mounts (bolt holes) are elongated or worn. The pan hard bar is the main component that centers the rear axle under the truck.

There are a ton of things in the front that can cause a vibration or shaking (control arms/bushings, tie rod ends, LJB's/UBJ's, steering rack/bushings etc etc).

This ^^^
Even a bad steering stabilizer can do it.
Just because it happens when you brake doesn't mean the brake system is causing it.

 

[thegipper]

This ^^^
Even a bad steering stabilizer can do it.
Just because it happens when you brake doesn't mean the brake system is causing it.

My ZJ death wobble ended up being the steering stabilizer even though many guys on the Jeep forum swear that a SS cannot be the cause of a death wobble.

All I know is after I replaced the SS, it never returned once.

I rarely ever see term "death wobble" used on this forum, specifically with 3rd gens (because IFS).

I have two guys at work that both have jeeps and both have had death wobble with their jeeps. One is an older Cherokee and the other is a TJ.

Good luck to the OP either way.

 

[jgue467]

...
When all of that was replaced, it got a LOT better but it still wasn't perfect. Since then, it slowly seems to be coming back. ...

To me if it "slowly came back" then it slowly developed warped rotors again. Get better (tougher) rotors and you should be good again. Worked for me. :cowboy:

 

[flipty]

I witnessed once about a year ago what could only be described as a "death wobble" on what looked like a mid-90's Jeep Cherokee.

Was about 7-10 car lengths in front of me on I-35W just outside of downtown Minneapolis at freeway speeds. Not sure if she hit a huge bump or if something just failed hardcore but out of nowhere both of her front wheels started violently thrashing side to side in unison with each other, faster than anyone could possibly move the steering wheel to replicate.

My only guess is that the steering rack somehow disconnected from the frame, or a pinion or gear or something somewhere in the system completely disintegrated. I did not envy her. She did manage to not get into a wreck. It was insane, i'd never seen anything like that.

 

[2ndhandyotaman]

I used to own a Dudge truck w/ the factory off-road package that also suffered from DW. I think it's pretty much every vehicle that dudge/jerp ever produced with the solid axle 4 link front suspension. The thing that eventually made it better for me ( after replacing EVERYTHING in the front suspension) was the steering box brace.

If one of our 4runners started to get a DW that was induced by hitting a pothole, it could be a number of things but I would look at the steering rack first, it's the main component that is isolating the side to side movement of the steering system.