Why don't we ever see LR Discovery's modded out?

Given that modding with non-factory parts so that you are ABLE to conquer Moab will most certainly void your factory warranty, it's still not a recommended activity by the manufacturer. Bust an axle taking on Rubicon and see if the dealer will cover it. I dare you. =P

In any event, I'm not quite sure why people think rock climbing and extreme off roading isn't classified as 'recreational' like they do overlanding. The biggest difference being that overlanding is usually designed as a purposeful journey to get somewhere regardless of conditions. This is how most LRDs are represented in shows like the ones I mentioned.

All in all, the main point I was trying to make is that modding is not necessary for 90% of the people who own a T4R and enjoy accessing locales other vehicles are unable to get to. The LRD is a good example of this principle, which is why you don't see people modding the crap out of them.

Do you know what a Jeep Rubicon is? It doesn't sound like you may be familiar. No profile info....so maybe you don't get those in your market? It was specifically designed to be able to do the "Rubicon" trail as well as tested in Moab and designed specifically for more difficult trails. Most every 4wd manufacturer tests in both these areas....so to claim they aren't designed for this use is not really accurate.

Never heard of Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, either? Read up....in the US, the mfg. cannot deny a warranty claim because of "aftermarket parts" unless those parts can conclusively be shown to have caused the failure of the stock components.

Breaking a part wheeling has NEVER been covered. Take your stock 4Runner and bust the IFS CV offroad and Toyota will not cover it. So....why would Jeep?

Who has said rockcrawling isn't or can't be recreational? Yes, it can be "professional".....but very few competitions have anything even remotely close to a "stock" class that would resemble the types of vehicles we're comparing.

I think you're referencing this comment:
Agree 100%....but as I mentioned before, overlanding isn't really all that taxing if you look at the typical (especially recreational) use.

I referenced "recreational" b/c in the US....overlanding is not anything (even recreationally) like what you see in Africa or South America. The "reacreational" use that most actual owners here in the States see pales in comparison to other parts of the world where the ONLY road through an area may be an unpaved one with little other alternative. 1st world problems, right? ;) The point: even with a fancy snorkel (sans real electrical waterproofing in most cases), you won't see most American owners ford a creek/river to the depth that the interior is going to fill with water, let alone break trail in a jungle environment where they're going to destroy the factory paint job.

Overlanding is mostly driving around on dirt roads to get from point A to point B. In the US...most of the time, it's to enjoy the beautiful scenery. Nothing wrong with any of that....but it's not really a test of a 4x4's drivetrain reliability or strength either as a Subaru Outback can do most every "overlanding" trip I've ever seen featured in the US. As you alluded to....you don't really need mods for that.

So was the point of the thread just that the people on this board don't need to mod their vehicles for overlanding? Not everyone here does overlanding....just sayin'.

Let me ask: Why is it any of your business how someone else chooses to use their property provided it doesn't infringe upon anyone elses natural, negative rights?
 
Land Rovers were originally designed for going anywhere. No real mods are needed for a vehicle designed for real world environments other than extra fuel and parts. Rock crawling is not needed to go anywhere.
 
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I see more T4R's being "built" to tackle more difficult terrain, ledges, and obstacles whereas the folks buying LR are looking for either a "luxury" 4x4 or something more designed for overlanding.

Could the crappier build and models been created between 2000-2008 when Ford owned the brand??? Just a thought on the recent decreased reliability.

That probably sums up I would say most any Land Rover built after the early 2000's is probably the more "unreliable" ones. I recall seeing an episode of the American Top Gear where Tanner had a brand new 2014 (IIRC) Land Rover RR and it was leaking, the suspension system and traction control system were freaking out, and some other issues all before they even left the pavement (great advertising there). Which honestly is all consistent with my experience with Land Rover in recent years; bloated, over-optioned, ridiculously complicated, leaking piles. Sure Land Rovers are good off-road, they either sit in the shop or on the driveway! :D

Joking and harsh criticism aside, my experience with that brand has shown them to be poorly built and managed for the last decade or so. A lot of them used BMW V8's (good lord that's enough to condemn them to a fate worse than death) and a lot of parts from other brands (Ford and BMW come to mind a lot when seeing LRs) that have their own reliability and quality issues. Perhaps in the Non-North American market they're like the Land Cruiser, where you can get a bare-bones non-"luxury" mall crawler; but the ones I have seen from 2000+ have been fairly consistent in lack of reliability and problems).

Land Rovers were originally designed for going anywhere. No real mods are needed for a vehicle designed for real world environments other than extra fuel and parts. Rock crawling is not needed to go anywhere.

I agree with that a 100%, a lot of people in the US confused "Off-Roading" with "Rock-Crawling" which it is not, Rock-Crawling IS an aspect of "Off-Roading" but realistically Overlanding/Trailblazing is more accurate in describing the various aspects of Off-roading.

That being said, in combination with the above response I made, I imagine the older Land Rovers do well in that "Overlanding/Trailblazing" aspect and need few modifications to really do well (the same is true of the 4Runner).
[MENTION=144462]Sean K.[/MENTION]

So here's a question that's bothered me for a while. IF someone purchased a "Rubicon" and damaged the vehicle on the Rubicon (i.e. blew an axle seal or broke a shaft, ect) shouldn't Jeep warranty it since that model is specifically advertised and promoted as being "Rubicon tough?" I get the whole "off-roading voids warranty" aspect, but that seems a bit underhanded when selling a vehicle with an advertising and promotional direction specifically geared to encouraging/boasting of the vehicle's off-road prowess?

It's just something that I have always wondered.
 
[MENTION=144462]Sean K.[/MENTION]

So here's a question that's bothered me for a while. IF someone purchased a "Rubicon" and damaged the vehicle on the Rubicon (i.e. blew an axle seal or broke a shaft, ect) shouldn't Jeep warranty it since that model is specifically advertised and promoted as being "Rubicon tough?" I get the whole "off-roading voids warranty" aspect, but that seems a bit underhanded when selling a vehicle with an advertising and promotional direction specifically geared to encouraging/boasting of the vehicle's off-road prowess?

It's just something that I have always wondered.


In no way should Jeep warranty it. Why? B/c Jeep would have no way of knowing how the driver was driving it when the break occurred. Was he WOT at 6K, bouncing off the rev limiter while trying to climb a pair of 4' boulders?

Honestly, I know Americans have a real problem with taking responsibility for their actions, but this seems extreme. Rockcrawling puts tons of invisible stresses in metal fatigue on all sorts of components....even if one is very careful and crawls most obstacles...the torque multiplication alone of a 4:1 tcase gear can overtax normal gear steel alloys (like 8620 for example) much faster than conventional gearing. Everything is a tradeoff. NOTHING will last forever. Even if Jeep started putting D60 front axles with 300m shafts...people would still break them.

What I've noticed about "no questions asked, lifetime" warranties is that they really bring out the stupid in people. If you look at most every major brand making that claim in the axle world (from Marfields, to Longs, to Alloy USA, CTM, etc.) even in 300M, they've had to go back on that warranty. People do dumb stuff and then want the company to foot the bill. That's not reasonable or realistic (not to mention ethical).
 
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I agree with that a 100%, a lot of people in the US confused "Off-Roading" with "Rock-Crawling" which it is not, Rock-Crawling IS an aspect of "Off-Roading" but realistically Overlanding/Trailblazing is more accurate in describing the various aspects of Off-roading.

Trying to differentiate offroading from "rockcrawling" is difficult though.....truth is, most "trail riding" is going to have a rockcrawling element involved.

Say you want to do Holy Cross in CO., or Dusy Ershim in CA.....both would be considered "offroading", but they are also LONG established "trail runs"....that have quite a bit of "rockcrawling" on the trails themselves.

The same can be said for trails throughout the US. Most of the more well known trails (known for being rated moderate to difficult) will generally have at least a few sections that are going to require "rockcrawling" of some sort.

It's not as black and white as your'e trying to characterize it.
 
In almost every instance where shows like TGUK/TGT represent a Land Rover (and in most cases a LR Discovery), it's always shown working it's way through the English countryside through mud, water, etc, in it's stock configuration.

I've never seen the English mod the crap out of their LRs like we do our 4Rs here and they are just as capable with basic tires (no K02s, General Grabbers, etc). Are we all being duped by conspicuous consumption here in the States into buying a bunch of crap we just don't need or are LRDs just THAT GOOD compared to a T4R?

Because most people on this forum are a bunch of posers that roll with lifts and heavy tire to look cool even though the majority of their driving is on pavement. I have 4WD, a rear locker, and H/T tires, yet a still haven't really used the vehicle to the fullest potential in this form. Plus adding a lift and heavy, aggressive tires just makes it drive like a piece of crap on the road.

Also, European often do modify their trucks(usually LR Defenders and Nissan Patrols), but when they do, the majority of them definitely use it to the fullest. Unlike the states they don't have bros in Pentastar powered Rubicons and Super Dutys running around like morons with LED light bars and winches that never get used.
 
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In no way should Jeep warranty it. Why? B/c Jeep would have no way of knowing how the driver was driving it when the break occurred. Was he WOT at 6K, bouncing off the rev limiter while trying to climb a pair of 4' boulders?

Honestly, I know Americans have a real problem with taking responsibility for their actions, but this seems extreme. Rockcrawling puts tons of invisible stresses in metal fatigue on all sorts of components....even if one is very careful and crawls most obstacles...the torque multiplication alone of a 4:1 tcase gear can overtax normal gear steel alloys (like 8620 for example) much faster than conventional gearing. Everything is a tradeoff. NOTHING will last forever. Even if Jeep started putting D60 front axles with 300m shafts...people would still break them.

What I've noticed about "no questions asked, lifetime" warranties is that they really bring out the stupid in people. If you look at most every major brand making that claim in the axle world (from Marfields, to Longs, to Alloy USA, CTM, etc.) even in 300M, they've had to go back on that warranty. People do dumb stuff and then want the company to fit the bill. That's not reasonable or realistic (not to mention ethical).

I actually agree with everything you said 100%, especially about warranties bring in the stupid/picky people.

I was just curious about how Jeep justifies advertising and promoting a Rubicon for off-road use and reliability and then doesn't warranty it when people use their "rough and tough" vehicle the way they specifically promote it. I agree there's a lot of variables to account for (including human stupidity), but it was the more "False Advertising" that the whiny crowd would inevitably throw around that made me curious about the situation.

Trying to differentiate offroading from "rockcrawling" is difficult though.....truth is, most "trail riding" is going to have a rockcrawling element involved.

Say you want to do Holy Cross in CO., or Dusy Ershim in CA.....both would be considered "offroading", but they are also LONG established "trail runs"....that have quite a bit of "rockcrawling" on the trails themselves.

The same can be said for trails throughout the US. Most of the more well known trails (known for being rated moderate to difficult) will generally have at least a few sections that are going to require "rockcrawling" of some sort.

It's not as black and white as your'e trying to characterize it.

That's entirely true which is why I look at "off-roading" as a broad spectrum of various "niche activities" and "broad stroke activities;" because as you pointed out on even a simple overlanding excursion you may need to do rock-crawling and "baja-esque" style driving over various terrain.

Though I've noticed that in the US, many people consider the ultimate 4x4 to be a dedicated "Rock Crawler." By that I mean a vehicle that's expected to purposefully seek out 2' or taller boulders to conquer because they can. Where as in Europe they literally have "Euro-Truck" (which I loved as a kid) where they take essentially modified 2~4 axle utility trucks and overland and trailblaze with them (which does involve crawling rocks sometimes). The focus if more on actually getting through rough terrain and making a trail/path than showing off to people that you can crawl a rock.

So yes I agree, it's a very arbitrary/semantic difference that is necessitated because of differences in culture as to how "off-roading" as an activity is seen in various places. I make that difference because people often tell me "but can your 4Runner crawl big ass boulders?" and I look at them and go, "no, but it can blaze a trail on the road and off the road and drive like a dream doing it compared to your 'ultimate' 4x4." No offense to people who rock crawl, it's a cool sport and those machines are impressive, but they for the most part are less than ideal for anything besides their purpose built activity.

Because most people on this forum are a bunch of posers that roll with lifts and heavy tire to look cool even though the majority of their driving is on pavement. I have 4WD, a rear locker, and H/T tires, yet a still haven't really used the vehicle to the fullest potential in this form. Plus adding a lift and heavy, aggressive tires just makes it drive like a piece of crap on the road.

Also, European often do modify their trucks(usually LR Defenders and Nissan Patrols), but when they do, the majority of them definitely use it to the fullest. Unlike the states they don't have bros in Pentastar powered Rubicons and Super Dutys running around like morons with LED light bars and winches that never get used.

That's entirely true, I often get asked when I'm going to throw a roof rack, winch, and light bars on my 4Runner. A lot of people for the longest time looked at my 4Runner and wondered what I really did to it (before I got the 35's), which I explained to them was the intent.

I spent more time and research on getting a well-valved suspension for my vehicle (2.5" diameter front & rear Overland Warehouse lift kit), RCI Sliders (went with bolt-on due to their design being as good as welded but reversible), RCI Skidplates, Shrockworks Bumpers, ect. Because I wanted to improve the handling and performance of the vehicle off-road and on-road rather than that "off-road look. I spent a lot of time trying to make things look stock/factory when I modded because I wanted things to "flow" well and the mods I did for the most part were function first, form later (i.e. the SW bumper is because of approach angle and wanting protection/reinforcement up front, same with the slider and skid plates; but the suspension was chosen to compliment those upgrades and retain good suspension quality as well). I want a winch, light bars, roof rack, ect. but so far I have very rarely found myself needing a winch, extra lighting, or even a roof rack (I haven't used the factory one yet); so my focus on things that I will utilize (i.e. a spare tire carrier with maybe some extra spots for Jerry Cans, if not a full metal rear bumper, on-board air system, better rear suspension components, ect.).

You're right though, a lot of people build their rigs for "looks" and think about performance later. I only started really building my vehicle after I first off-roaded it, because I got a feel for how I would use it and how it would be used; thus had a design goal for creating a more robust, all-around off-road vehicle.

I would urge most people to actually off-road their rigs at least once to really get an idea of what they want/need before they start modifying their vehicles. As you mentioned in other placed those vehicles usually are modified (in some cases very heavily) but it's often all stuff you don't see until you look closely. Because that culture is less about showing off your "ultimate 4x4" and more about modifying it to BE the ultimate 4x4.
 
I was watching the making of "The Hunt", a very well done nature series shown on BBC America last summer, when Sir David Attenborough goes thru a list of people and equipment used in the making of this extensive 36 month shoot. He mentions personnel, camera equipment, helicopters, and wait for it............"Jeeps". The funny thing was I never saw one Jeep or a Land Rover. I did see a couple of these :rockon: tho. And at least us blingers on this forum know a good vehicle to modify when we see one. Best thing about my Kings and lifetime alignment is I can jump a curb and beat Grandma to that parking spot at the mall.
 

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You obviously don't carry around a bottle of Grey Poupon, peasant.

haha... I do... literally at all times... its in my ARB fridge freezer...

Its a bit pretentious I know... but when people find out I have a fridge in the truck they always laugh and ask me for Grey Poupon, and I give it to them.

Never gets old for me lol...
 
I was watching the making of "The Hunt", a very well done nature series shown on BBC America last summer, when Sir David Attenborough goes thru a list of people and equipment used in the making of this extensive 36 month shoot. He mentions personnel, camera equipment, helicopters, and wait for it............"Jeeps". The funny thing was I never saw one Jeep or a Land Rover. I did see a couple of these :rockon: tho. And at least us blingers on this forum know a good vehicle to modify when we see one. Best thing about my Kings and lifetime alignment is I can jump a curb and beat Grandma to that parking spot at the mall.

They use all kinds of trucks. I would say the LC is most popular, with the Defender a very close second place. The Nissan Patrol is another that doesn't get enough credit.

I jump curbs on stock suspension! You're gonna have to do better than that. :P
 
They use all kinds of trucks. I would say the LC is most popular, with the Defender a very close second place. The Nissan Patrol is another that doesn't get enough credit.

I jump curbs on stock suspension! You're gonna have to do better than that. :P
Lol, curbs and Grandma are the only things I'm brave enough to take on.

I actually have seen a 1st gen Range Rover modified pretty cleanly. It was at Rausch Creek, PA back on July 4th weekend. It looked good and did very well that day. Wish I had taken a pic of it.
 
Isn't "Jeep" a colloquial thing also? I recall reading something that back in the day a lot of "off-road vehicles were called "Jeeps" because it was a popular slang back in the day.
 
This statement is going to make me the most popular guy here but truth hurts:

"Every mod you make ( besides tires and little stuff like sliders and racks) reduces the reliability and compromises the performance of the 4Runner in some conditions."

Your post was spot on. People are duped into thinking they must mod except for all those who are only doing it for looks.

No way.

Replacing your light duty IFS with a solid straight axle increases strength and reliability and safety. The fact that people "try new things" after they have modified their car does not mean that the actual modifications had a negative effect on the design of the vehicle. Quite the opposite in fact, things like strong steel bumpers can guarantee the safety of the occupants of the vehicle (at the expense of the safety of everyone else outside the vehicle). I guess if you define "conditions" as "the vehicle warranty" then you might be correct, otherwise its totally wrong in all cases.

Personally, the only determination I have for a good off road vehicle is the following test: "can you slam your truck directly into a huge rock at 15mph and not have any damage?" Yes= good 4x4, no= go home weenie. Since that is my only design consideration, extensive modifications are required to accomplish this goal since no factory built truck can handle it. In other words, there is NO WAY to accomplish this goal without mods.
 
No way.

Replacing your light duty IFS with a solid straight axle increases strength and reliability and safety. The fact that people "try new things" after they have modified their car does not mean that the actual modifications had a negative effect on the design of the vehicle. Quite the opposite in fact, things like strong steel bumpers can guarantee the safety of the occupants of the vehicle (at the expense of the safety of everyone else outside the vehicle). I guess if you define "conditions" as "the vehicle warranty" then you might be correct, otherwise its totally wrong in all cases.

Personally, the only determination I have for a good off road vehicle is the following test: "can you slam your truck directly into a huge rock at 15mph and not have any damage?" Yes= good 4x4, no= go home weenie. Since that is my only design consideration, extensive modifications are required to accomplish this goal since no factory built truck can handle it. In other words, there is NO WAY to accomplish this goal without mods.

Your straight axle is good off road but at the cost of on road ride and handling.

Strong steel bumpers will give you better low speed crash damage mitigation but the trade off is losing engineered crumple zones to dissipate energy and reduce g force loading on occupants.

You cannot think of a mod that improves the 4Runner in both on and off road conditions.

Every single substantial mod you make for off road compromises something on road. Every single mod you make for on road compromises off road performance.

Chances are really good every single mod you make will also make the 4Runner less efficient.

We could go on all day man.
 
No way.

Replacing your light duty IFS with a solid straight axle increases strength and reliability and safety. The fact that people "try new things" after they have modified their car does not mean that the actual modifications had a negative effect on the design of the vehicle. Quite the opposite in fact, things like strong steel bumpers can guarantee the safety of the occupants of the vehicle (at the expense of the safety of everyone else outside the vehicle). I guess if you define "conditions" as "the vehicle warranty" then you might be correct, otherwise its totally wrong in all cases.

That solid axle swap is a totally custom job, and it's put together using parts from other vehicles. Serviceability and teething issues will definitely present themselves. You aren't finding a repair manual for that one-off job anywhere. Maybe it holds up better to larger tires than IFS, but you have definitely changed the way the vehicle acts during a collision. People usually add plating to the frame to add strength for steering boxes and etc. However, the frame is designed to "crush" in a specific way from the factory. Unless it's crash tested, it may actually be less safe.

Same with those heavy duty bumpers. They are better in low speed accidents, but in a high speed collision it may not be willing to act with the factory crumple zones. Everyone's application for these mods is different. Just some points to think about. I've modded vehicles and it's something I do with much more restraint now.
 
No way.

Replacing your light duty IFS with a solid straight axle increases strength and reliability and safety. The fact that people "try new things" after they have modified their car does not mean that the actual modifications had a negative effect on the design of the vehicle. Quite the opposite in fact, things like strong steel bumpers can guarantee the safety of the occupants of the vehicle (at the expense of the safety of everyone else outside the vehicle). I guess if you define "conditions" as "the vehicle warranty" then you might be correct, otherwise its totally wrong in all cases.

Personally, the only determination I have for a good off road vehicle is the following test: "can you slam your truck directly into a huge rock at 15mph and not have any damage?" Yes= good 4x4, no= go home weenie. Since that is my only design consideration, extensive modifications are required to accomplish this goal since no factory built truck can handle it. In other words, there is NO WAY to accomplish this goal without mods.

Actually we talked about this a few times in various "armour" threads. Yes a steel bumper will reduce external damage to the vehicle (it's why I equipped mine with one) but the trade off is a higher chance of moderate to severe internal organ damage in the event of an accident. Crumple zones are designed primarily to reduce the forward inertia imparted on the vehicle and it's occupants in the event of a crash. When the vehicle hits an object at 30mph and comes to rest, the occupants inside are still traveling at 30mph; when the occupant's bodies are arrested by the seat belts, their internal organs (brain, heart, lungs, ect) are still traveling at 30mph and slam into their now 0mph bodies. That means your organs will slam against the walls and bones of your body at 30mph, which can cause ruptures, hemorrhaging, internal lacerations, ect. which is far worse than breaking an arm or cutting your forehead or even the burns that can be associated with airbag deployment. It's the same type of damage soldiers face with IEDs and football players deal with every day.

The entire purpose of crumple zones, airbags, and seat belts is to reduce that "shock" of going from 30mph to 0mph in as gradual a process as possible to reduce internal damage. You can build a vehicle to not be damaged in an impact, but the consequence is that internal damage is highly probable in an accident (it's also very difficult to treat compared to a fracture or laceration).

~

A solid front axle has it's benefits, but really they are fairly limited when it comes to more modern IFS set-ups. This comes back to that "Rock Crawling isn't all of off-roading" point that was made earlier. Yes a solid front axle has better articulation, but it also suffers from "death wobble", poor handling characteristics, higher turning radius, ect. These can be worked out for the most part (CrozHawk on Toyota120 has an amazing SFA build on his 4th gen) but the cost, effort, and engineering is beyond what most would spend (I think he has 30k in his setup and that's considering he did most of the labor).

Where as an IFS with modification (i.e. good lift kit designed for the vehicle) can tackle far larger variety of terrain with better handling and ride quality than you can do with typical SFA set-ups. It will ride better, handle better, and typically work well in many "crawling" applications with mild modification. Considering most off-roading rarely requires that much hardcore "rock-crawling" unless your really purposefully looking for it, it's an all-around better and more practical set-up for a general purpose off-road vehicle. It's also why many military vehicles do have a form of IFS (think HUMVEE and MRAP from the US stables).

Some food for thought also, IF solid front axles were "end all be all" of what makes a good 4x4. Then why would racing teams spend millions of dollars building ridiculously beefy IFS and IRS trucks for things like the Baja 1000 or Dakar? If you want to talk about "serious" off-roading, those two races put a seriously crazy amount of stress on a vehicle and yet most if not all those vehicles are IFS/SRA or IFS/IRA. Sure they may not be crawling boulders anytime soon, but those are endurance races; they can't afford to have stuff break on them and yet they chose "a lesser, more unreliable" technology.
 
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Gentlemen I realize why Land Rovers are not modified often... because Brits are twats.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rhegFsPp_l0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:P
 
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Actually we talked about this a few times in various "armour" threads. Yes a steel bumper will reduce external damage to the vehicle (it's why I equipped mine with one) but the trade off is a higher chance of moderate to severe internal organ damage in the event of an accident. Crumple zones are designed primarily to reduce the forward inertia imparted on the vehicle and it's occupants in the event of a crash. When the vehicle hits an object at 30mph and comes to rest, the occupants inside are still traveling at 30mph; when the occupant's bodies are arrested by the seat belts, their internal organs (brain, heart, lungs, ect) are still traveling at 30mph and slam into their now 0mph bodies. That means your organs will slam against the walls and bones of your body at 30mph, which can cause ruptures, hemorrhaging, internal lacerations, ect. which is far worse than breaking an arm or cutting your forehead or even the burns that can be associated with airbag deployment. It's the same type of damage soldiers face with IEDs and football players deal with every day.

The entire purpose of crumple zones, airbags, and seat belts is to reduce that "shock" of going from 30mph to 0mph in as gradual a process as possible to reduce internal damage. You can build a vehicle to not be damaged in an impact, but the consequence is that internal damage is highly probable in an accident (it's also very difficult to treat compared to a fracture or laceration).

~

A solid front axle has it's benefits, but really they are fairly limited when it comes to more modern IFS set-ups. This comes back to that "Rock Crawling isn't all of off-roading" point that was made earlier. Yes a solid front axle has better articulation, but it also suffers from "death wobble", poor handling characteristics, higher turning radius, ect. These can be worked out for the most part (CrozHawk on Toyota120 has an amazing SFA build on his 4th gen) but the cost, effort, and engineering is beyond what most would spend (I think he has 30k in his setup and that's considering he did most of the labor).

Where as an IFS with modification (i.e. good lift kit designed for the vehicle) can tackle far larger variety of terrain with better handling and ride quality than you can do with typical SFA set-ups. It will ride better, handle better, and typically work well in many "crawling" applications with mild modification. Considering most off-roading rarely requires that much hardcore "rock-crawling" unless your really purposefully looking for it, it's an all-around better and more practical set-up for a general purpose off-road vehicle. It's also why many military vehicles do have a form of IFS (think HUMVEE and MRAP from the US stables).

Some food for thought also, IF solid front axles were "end all be all" of what makes a good 4x4. Then why would racing teams spend millions of dollars building ridiculously beefy IFS and IRS trucks for things like the Baja 1000 or Dakar? If you want to talk about "serious" off-roading, those two races put a seriously crazy amount of stress on a vehicle and yet most if not all those vehicles are IFS/SRA or IFS/IRA. Sure they may not be crawling boulders anytime soon, but those are endurance races; they can't afford to have stuff break on them and yet they chose "a lesser, more unreliable" technology.

I would rather have my steel bumper than a plastic bumper in any accident. And while we are on the subject of racing, many of the King of the Hammers unlimited cars do use straight axle suspension because of well...rocks. Baja races and Dakar races have no rocks at all, so no straight axles of course.
 

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