Winches.

[Doc2012]

Yes. I've done my reasearch. After reading this article (Tug of War: The Ultimate 12v Winch Test - Equipment Testing - ExPo: Adventure and Overland Travel Enthusiasts), I still had no more made up my mind than I had before.

After some unfortunate events this weekend, that resulted in a 30 hour recovery operation, involving multiple Jeeps, and a Dodge 2500, I have come to the conclusion that I NEED a winch. So, when I get my taxes back, I plan on getting a front bumper, and a winch.

In said 30 hour recovery operation, we had 6 winches go down on us. 2, that I know of, were Smittybuilt, aka, Shittybuilt. One was a 12k, and the other was a 10k. The 12k had a solenoid go bad. Not so much a break, but more of an incovience. There is not much that can be done about the solenoid, though I feel that if it were better protected, it wouldn't have happened. The 10k, the engagement lever sheared off. Both of these were pulling 4Runners that were pretty damn stuck, so there is a good chance that the engagement lever was because the winch was overloaded, though we were using a snatch block, which is supposed to double the winches pull strength.


One of the winches was a Warn, and it was fairly old. I think the winch was just worn out, which happens. Not really any "fault", things just get old and worn out, and this winch was definately worn out. LOL.

I'm not sure what the other 3 winches were, some say the Harbor freight special, some say Shittybuilts or others.

Here's what I want from you guys:

PERSONAL stories of winches you HAVE or HAVE HAD, that you've used, abused, and that have kept on ticking.

Personally, I'm leaning towards a Warn. Thinking the VR12k. Why the 12K? WTF not? Overkill is underrated, Kinda like a condom, I'd rather have one and not need it, then need it and not have one, take your pick of those sayings. If I get burried like I was this weekend, along with the others that were burried, I want more rating.

SO, go for it guys. I want to hear what you HAVE, and what you HAVE DONE with it, why you chose it, and how it's been to you.

The floor is yours.

 

[ebg18t]

There are a ton of options out there. On my Landrover I used an Engo with synthetic line. It worked well, but was a tad loud and a tad slow but was only $400. Well worth the $$.

On my 4Runner I am using a TJM winch with synthetic line. It is faster & quieter than my last winch. It has worked flawless so far. The build quality of the TJM is better but it did cost more. Been very happy with the TJM.

I have used the IronMan winches and they were nice too. I would put them in between the a Engo and the TJM.

I would also suggest looking at the a Factor 55 thimbles. Now that I have one I can't believe I used a hook for so long.

 

[KidVermicious]

I would also suggest looking at the a Factor 55 thimbles. Now that I have one I can't believe I used a hook for so long.

Ok, so what's up with these things? I haven't used my winch in anger yet, why are the thimbles so much better than a hook with a latch?

 

[SV_Dude]

we had 6 winches go down on us.

Overkill is underrated, Kinda like a condom.

We talking about winches or wenches?

Sorry, had to go there.

Fwiw: I have used and seen a number of smittybuilt winches used and none of them have failed. Those that broke, how were they maintained? Specifically the one that had the lever shear. Was it rusted out from being weathered? I wouldn't hesitate to use a smittybuilt.

You cannot go wrong with a warn either. I haven't personally used any warns but they do have a stellar reputation.

 

[ebg18t]

Ok, so what's up with these things? I haven't used my winch in anger yet, why are the thimbles so much better than a hook with a latch?

After having a hook bend on us years ago (stuck in thick mud up to the frame) I was on the look for other options. I didn't like putting the strap ends onto the hook (super tight fit) when I wasn't using a block. To me the factor 55 is a simple solution. I use a regular shackle it running back to the frame hook. I use and oversize shackle if using a strap. To me it minimizes points where things could come unclipped or snag. We had on guy who ended up with some slack in the line when the anchor truck rolled toward him when he was stopped, the strap caught on the safety clip on the hook, twisted when they started pulling again and the safety clip went flying, the rest of his pull was on an open hook.

I also like to have all of my line hidden. So this allows me to synch it up tight, no dangling hook, no exposed line to degrade from UV. Clean and simple. Catch is they are $100. That is all just my 2 cents from my usage.

 

[Doc2012]

We talking about winches or wenches?



Sorry, had to go there.



Fwiw: I have used and seen a number of smittybuilt winches used and none of them have failed. Those that broke, how were they maintained? Specifically the one that had the lever shear. Was it rusted out from being weathered? I wouldn't hesitate to use a smittybuilt.



You cannot go wrong with a warn either. I haven't personally used any warns but they do have a stellar reputation.

My girlfriend made that mistake in a text. I had to correct her. Lol.

The Smittys were both well taken care of. Both looked to be fairly new.

There was a third Smitty, a 10k, that was having problems pulling the other Runner and myself out, even though he was snatched. So, theoretically, that would have made 20k of pulling force. There's NO reason that those winches should've had problems pulling us out, or broke.

Three of the six, that I FOR SURE know of, were Smittys and they didn't work too well. Kinda makes me want to stay away from them.

I also plan on running synthetic line.

Problem with that is that the Warn winches and synthetic line are only rated for 10k winches. Guess that's not a problem, but it's not the 12k winch I was thinking about getting.

 

[the great him]

dont buy a 12k winch or even a 10k winch... for one the 12k wont fit any bumper for our trucks unless its completely custom built for that winch. the sheer size(dimensions) of the 10K+ make them the wrong choice. going with a winch that powerful you are asking for disaster. as it could tear apart your rig or the rig being pulled if nor careful. going with a lower winch, you will first max it out and know that you are dealing with a heavy/large load. so with the smaller winch you have the warning first and can reevaluate if you want to snatch block or walk away.... if you do decide to snatch block then your pull will become half as fast allowing for more control. but if you are running a larger say 12k winch you could easily rip apart a rig without any warning and not know the load is so high because the winch just keeps pulling. big winches have their place, and thats on bigger trucks and vehicles. i have personally seen a 12k winch on a small toyota pickup just rip the truck apart on a pull because it was so strong and gave no warning to the operator.

get a 9k winch and you will be fine, getting a 10k+ winch will only lead to other failures, like gear and equipment ect. most snatch blocks are only rated to like 16/18k lbs. so if you use a 10k winch with your 18k snatch block you are gonna run the risk of tearing it apart. then you will run into the issues of the cable or rope not being able to handle the loads being asked of it.

part of having a winch is knowing when to use it and using it before you get in over your head. it sounds to me like you guys failed to stop while you where ahead. and thus you ended up needlessly breaking stuff or causing undo stress on things. there is no reason why a 9k winch should not be able to pull out a fully loaded and buried 4runner without issue. i have pulled trees over with both of my Warn winches -one completely picked the truck it was mounted too up off the ground.

the way warn and other companies get the 10, 12 and 16.5k rating on their winches is by gearing down... the same thing you would be doing with a snatch block. if you can not get someone or yourself out with 16-18k of pulling power then you have no business doing what your doing or trying to pull what you are attempting.

if you want a winch with the most pulling power available then buy the warn xp9.5ti, its the only winch on the market with a 6hp motor and when you put a snatch block on that you now have 19k of pulling power, and slow speed for the best control, but if you dont need so much pulling power you will have the fastest pulling winch on the market that can fit inside your bumper.

i have not owned any winch other than a warn, but i have seen several other brand and used them -mile marker, smittybuilt, engo, superwinch, ramsey ect. and the only other winch i would consider owning is either an engo or ramsey -engo only because i have met the owner and their headquarters are local for me, and ramsey because they have been around a long time and i have never seen a non working ramsey winch. but honestly if i had anything other than a warn id sell it and buy a warn. id take a used warn over any other brand new winch all day long.

 

[Doc2012]

dont buy a 12k winch or even a 10k winch... for one the 12k wont fit any bumper for our trucks unless its completely custom built for that winch. the sheer size(dimensions) of the 10K+ make them the wrong choice.

According to Warn's Website, the 9.5XP is actually about an inch longer than the VR12k, dimensions of the 9.5XP being 22.7Lx6.3Dx7.7H, and the VR12k being 21.83Lx6.3Dx6.97H. Seems to me that a 12k would fit into any bumper the same as a 9.5XP.

going with a winch that powerful you are asking for disaster. as it could tear apart your rig or the rig being pulled if nor careful. going with a lower winch, you will first max it out and know that you are dealing with a heavy/large load. so with the smaller winch you have the warning first and can reevaluate if you want to snatch block or walk away.... if you do decide to snatch block then your pull will become half as fast allowing for more control. but if you are running a larger say 12k winch you could easily rip apart a rig without any warning and not know the load is so high because the winch just keeps pulling. big winches have their place, and thats on bigger trucks and vehicles. i have personally seen a 12k winch on a small toyota pickup just rip the truck apart on a pull because it was so strong and gave no warning to the operator.
I can see where the 12k power would be a problem. But, if you're careful, and use the winch smartly, i think you'd be able to tell before anything seriously failed. It's not like I plan on doing a pull for a long distance. It would be a slow pull, not a "hold the button till it comes out" pull.

get a 9k winch and you will be fine, getting a 10k+ winch will only lead to other failures, like gear and equipment ect. most snatch blocks are only rated to like 16/18k lbs. so if you use a 10k winch with your 18k snatch block you are gonna run the risk of tearing it apart. then you will run into the issues of the cable or rope not being able to handle the loads being asked of it.

Warn has a snatch block on thier website that is good to 20K. A quick google search also found some snatch blocks rated to 36k.

part of having a winch is knowing when to use it and using it before you get in over your head. it sounds to me like you guys failed to stop while you where ahead. and thus you ended up needlessly breaking stuff or causing undo stress on things. there is no reason why a 9k winch should not be able to pull out a fully loaded and buried 4runner without issue. i have pulled trees over with both of my Warn winches -one completely picked the truck it was mounted too up off the ground.

Completely agree here. This is why I think the winches used were all but crap, and I want more people to chime in here about what they've got, done, and other experiences.

the way warn and other companies get the 10, 12 and 16.5k rating on their winches is by gearing down... the same thing you would be doing with a snatch block. if you can not get someone or yourself out with 16-18k of pulling power then you have no business doing what your doing or trying to pull what you are attempting.

Again, agree. But like I said in my first post, and like Hannibal Smith said, "Overkill is Underrated."

if you want a winch with the most pulling power available then buy the warn xp9.5ti, its the only winch on the market with a 6hp motor and when you put a snatch block on that you now have 19k of pulling power, and slow speed for the best control, but if you dont need so much pulling power you will have the fastest pulling winch on the market that can fit inside your bumper.

My brother has the XP9.5, and I'm very seriously considering it. On Winch Depot, the XP9.5 is going for 1300. the VR12K is going for 680.

i have not owned any winch other than a warn, but i have seen several other brand and used them -mile marker, smittybuilt, engo, superwinch, ramsey ect. and the only other winch i would consider owning is either an engo or ramsey -engo only because i have met the owner and their headquarters are local for me, and ramsey because they have been around a long time and i have never seen a non working ramsey winch. but honestly if i had anything other than a warn id sell it and buy a warn. id take a used warn over any other brand new winch all day long.

Couple cons I see about using a 12k:

1: 80' of 3/8" cable.
2: Can't run synthetic line
3: Power can be an Issue if not paying attention.
[MENTION=60147]the kid[/MENTION]: I mean no disrespect. Just pointing out some stuff. You make very valid points.

At this point, since I want synthetic line, I'm leaning towards the 9.5XP, but still want MORE PEOPLE TO CHIME IN!!!!

 

[the great him]

i have not seen a vr10k or 12k in person, but i have seen a vr8k and it is identical to the m8k... and that is the way they are making the VR series, they are using the same platform and cases. so if this fallows suit with the trend the vr10 and 12 will be larger, and will not fit into most bumpers for our trucks as the m10 will not nor will the m12 i have seen both of those and tried to fit those into a bumper for a prado(bigger than a tacoma bumper) and it would not fit, they are much larger.

i think warns web page is not accurate on the dimensions of the the vr 10 and 12.

i totally get where you are coming from and i was of the same mindset when i first started looking for a winch many years ago. but after actually using one(several now) and being around quite a few, i am of the mind set that unless your vehicle is a large vehicle ie a full size truck or suv a 9k winch will be more than enough. i have pulled fully loaded full sized rigs out with my 9k and not had any issues. the problem you will find you experience more ofthen than not when pulling a large load will be you will winch yourself into the stuck vehicle... thus requiring you to anchor your vehicle to an "immovable" object, such as a large tree, or another vehicle(s). but the issue here becomes now your vehicle frame is subject to stress and or damage especially if not connected correctly. thats why i suggest a smaller winch... it will give you a heads up long before you are at risk for damaging things

 

[jhumphrey]

I have had two Engo winches in my time. One was a 9k, the other 10. Both had steel cable (here in TN there is a lot of brush and I'm afraid it wouldn't hold up with syn line). Plus, I use the winches for general utility use, not just recover.

Anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another Engo. They both operated fine, I just sold them attached to the Jeeps when I sold them. Engos are inexpensive, but work. I used my 9k (on a wrangler) to recover a buddy of mine who was hanging off a ledge in a local off road park. Its a bit "loud" compared to other (more expensive) winches and a little slower. The speed didn't bother me, slow and steady wins the race in recovery anyway. I don't do competition stuff, so speed isn't a factor.

The 10K (on a Cherokee) worked without a hiccup as well. I didn't have a chance to use it for recovery, but did some utility work with it. It worked fine. If I put a winch on my runner, it'll be another Engo. There is a winch torture test out there that the Engo was the only one that survived. The "shootout" went to Warn, but that was because they reviewing magazine gave more points for "ergonomic grip" and "better packaging" to Warn. Warn actually stopped working during the test...but guess who has the most ads in the magazine?

The article Im referring to is here: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/129-1107-massive-multi-winch-shootout/

 

[hurt4x]

I Have a older Warn M8000. When I got it, it was full of rust and would not free spool. I took it apart and cleaned and greased the crap out of it and put in all new gaskets.
It has served me well and has ran smooth ever since then. Synthetic line would be nice. But other than that I don't have much to add.

Oh and I have also heard lots of good things of Engo.

 

[nevada]

Heavy Duty Performance 10,500 lb Off Road Winch, Steel cable, Remote Control, Roller Fairlead

6.6 hp.
some people say they are the same as the smittybuilt, they do look similar, but having used both... they are different.

I had an 8k milemarker years ago, when they first came out. good winch, never stopped pulling, but holy moses was it SLOW. it was fine for recovery, but spooling the cable back in? forget it, we often just looped it around the bumper.

when I finally burned that up(too hot too many times) I got a rugged ridge 8500. there are at least 2 in our group, and a 3rd is planning to get one.
this thing is badass. its not too slow, and just works. ive used the shit out of it.
I like it so much, I just ordered the 10.5k for my 4runner. it has the same mounting pattern as the 8.5k.


I would never pay the inflated warn prices.

 

[nevada]

from the link in the OP.

And then, BANG! The winch end of the rope parted and shot through the crisp forest air so fast my eye couldn’t follow it, taking the line damper for a thrill ride, traveling a full 80-something feet to the anchor and 30 feet beyond before landing on the ground. What a rush.

Why did the line snap? We’re still not sure, although it happened right at the drum. From that point on we used a single, identical rope for the remainder of the test with no failure.

ive had the cable break 2x on my RR 8500, pulling out tree stumps, maxed out with a snatch block.
both times, it broke right at the drum, same as the above.

 

[Singtoe]

In said 30 hour recovery operation, we had 6 winches go down on us. 2, that I know of, were Smittybuilt, aka, Shittybuilt. One was a 12k, and the other was a 10k. The 12k had a solenoid go bad. Not so much a break, but more of an incovience. There is not much that can be done about the solenoid, though I feel that if it were better protected, it wouldn't have happened. The 10k, the engagement lever sheared off. Both of these were pulling 4Runners that were pretty damn stuck, so there is a good chance that the engagement lever was because the winch was overloaded, though we were using a snatch block, which is supposed to double the winches pull strength.

You just had a spout of bad luck.

Using a snatch block will not over load a winch any more then with out. If the 10k winch stalls at 12k, then it will stall at 24k if used with a snatch block as the winch still seas the same 12k load.

In reality- If you use two snatch blocks, your winch will see substantially less load . cables will break so be careful.

I have two cheap ass winches on my hoopties and they both work great. On is HF champion something and the other is an Engo.

Don't Blow your hard earn money on expensive crap that your going to use once in a blue moon.

Make your bumper - save your money.

 

[Wrek]

Edited. I messed up the math in my response. Drinking is bad mmmmkay.

 

[Dawg4Runner]

I look at a winch as an insurance policy. I don't ever want to use it (some never do, some never will) but when I do, I wanna have the peace of mind that it'll do the job and be reliable at it. Just like an insurance company, I'd rather pay a little extra knowing that if I do have to use it, it'll serve me well and be hassle free. I've always owned Warn winches so I can't speak to any other brand. My current winch is a Warn 9.5xp with Amsteel synthetic line. The few times I've had to use it to recover other trucks, it's done its job. So if you're already leaning in the direction of a Warn winch then I say pull the trigger.:gun6: