Would rock sliders help in an accident?

First, the engineers are correct... when you are only talking about transferring energy from one vehicle to another. But there is usually at least one human being in one vehicle. The better question is: how is the energy from a collision between two vehicles transferred to the occupants?

I'm not an engineer, but having investigated/studied hundreds of MV crashes thus far, I have very good understanding on mechanisms of injury to humans from crashes.

For the engineers here, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the milliseconds following a vehicle crash no energy is transferred into the human body -- only Newton's Law existing at that point (the body will simply continue moving in its original direction or remain stationary). Eventually the human body will come into contact with some part of the vehicle (or even the other vehicle) and then energy is transferred to the human body.

In crashes, that is usually the seatbelt, airbags, and subsequently much harder structures (steering wheel, glass, dash, other solid vehicle structures, etc.). There can also be intrusion into the passenger compartment of one vehicle by another vehicle (these are usually quite devastating).

As I see it, the rock sliders will not crumple (thus not absorbing/dispersing energy), but they may, MAY, help prevent intrusion into the occupant compartment. However, the rock sliders may also hinder the side airbag sensors as well (which are usually some form of contact sensor -- the tiniest delay might not provide the desired result of side airbag deployment).

Ultimately, the question of "will my sliders give me better protection in a side impact?" cannot be succinctly answered. They might provide some intrusion protection to the lower area of the occupant compartment; they might provide some structural rigidity to the rocker panel area; and they might also create a slight delay of the side airbag system (resulting in a chance a human body might not be in the proper position during deployment or that a human body will contact something rather solid before the airbag can deploy).

At the end of the day, I don't care what my 4Runner looks like after a crash (I have insurance) -- I want to be alive and with as little/minor of injuries as possible.
 
if anything they would probably cause the airbags to go off earlier because of the increased jerk/acceleration

i don't agree with anyone that it makes much of a difference either way, mine are tight enough that if you are into the sliders you are already well into the door
 
Calm down you nancies. These engineers get so mad about people not agreeing!

Realize this: I'm an 11 year Master Certifed Auto Technician and do you have any idea how many times regular joes like Apple employees, firemen, grocery store clerks, teachers, and yes even engineers have combatted me on issues I see with my own eyes on a daily basis?

It's constant. The internet gives everyone a voice and platform. And an ego. And toughness to say stuff.

Let's do it right: petition these auto manufacturers to do crash testing on trucks with sliders and end all the arguements.

Anyone in??

1) would love to see real data on this
2) didn't mean to be a jerk or a nay sayer, only to point out it is complicated and absolutes usually aren't.
3) at least we have some good conversations going...
 
See above in blue While I basically agree, it isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be, and the whole seatbelt thing really was irrelevant to the rest of the discussion. no matter which vehicle you were in, in any of the scenarios, not wearing a seatbelt would have ended badly.

I was in a stationary vehicle that was rear-ended by another vehicle of about the same size. He impacted my trailer hitch. the trailer hitch receiver was bolted to my frame. no crumple zone. all the the energy was transferred to my vehicle. except for the part absorbed by his crumple zone. Other than removing some chrome from my trailer hitch and a small scuff on my rear bumper, I suffered zero damage. His truck was totaled. all, but a very small portion of the energy was absorbed by his crumple zone. Anecdotal to be sure, but I got the benefit of his crumple zone. You cannot ignore that in the discussion. YMMV

Most of everything I said was tongue in cheek and, as far as the examples I picked using seatbelts, that was just to show that guy that more steel is not always the answer and safety features matter.

The truth is this: In some accidents, sliders could help protect you. In some accidents, sliders could multiply the damage to the vehicle and you. The dynamics of an accident are amazingly different with just subtle variations of known values.

The most important fact to be learned from this thread? Some people shouldn't post about physics. I was taught a long time ago, in some situations, it was better to remain quiet and just appear ignorant rather than open my mouth and remove all doubt.
 
Most of everything I said was tongue in cheek and, as far as the examples I picked using seatbelts, that was just to show that guy that more steel is not always the answer and safety features matter.

The truth is this: In some accidents, sliders could help protect you. In some accidents, sliders could multiply the damage to the vehicle and you. The dynamics of an accident are amazingly different with just subtle variations of known values.

The most important fact to be learned from this thread? Some people shouldn't post about physics. I was taught a long time ago, in some situations, it was better to remain quiet and just appear ignorant rather than open my mouth and remove all doubt.

wasn't the first time I missed the tone of a post....

it's all good, I'm sorry if I came across as a jerk that wasn't my intention.
 
if anything they would probably cause the airbags to go off earlier because of the increased jerk/acceleration

i don't agree with anyone that it makes much of a difference either way, mine are tight enough that if you are into the sliders you are already well into the door

That's not how all airbag sensors work. Some work by measuring metal deformation while other types work from shock. BMW is famous for having the airbags deploy simply by going over a pothole too fast while the 1st gen Tacoma is famous among EMT's for the airbags seeming to never deploy no matter how hard the truck was hit.

Not all systems are the same and not all hardware is the same with regards to SRS systems.
 
Most of everything I said was tongue in cheek and, as far as the examples I picked using seatbelts, that was just to show that guy that more steel is not always the answer and safety features matter.

The truth is this: In some accidents, sliders could help protect you. In some accidents, sliders could multiply the damage to the vehicle and you. The dynamics of an accident are amazingly different with just subtle variations of known values.

The most important fact to be learned from this thread? Some people shouldn't post about physics. I was taught a long time ago, in some situations, it was better to remain quiet and just appear ignorant rather than open my mouth and remove all doubt.

This "guy" is far more concerned with someone offering engineering advise that could be misused as a blueprint for how or how not to make something more safe. Blindly believing it could directly cause people to die or be injured from doing things based on a non-tested and extremely dangerous opinion. Otherwise, I don't care very much about trying to impress people with my occupation -- note that I don't have the word "engineer" anywhere in my screen name and will not be changing that anytime soon.

Funny thing is, classes in statics and dynamics are available to anyone who wants to study them, not just ME's.
 
Certainly all the speculation relies on guessing the crush qualities of different brands and styles of slider...some would deflect more than others. In the end, I bought sliders to do what they do and I won't sweat the ''crash test'' implications. Weigh the pro's and con's and do what makes you comfy!:pop2:
 
That's not how all airbag sensors work. Some work by measuring metal deformation while other types work from shock. BMW is famous for having the airbags deploy simply by going over a pothole too fast while the 1st gen Tacoma is famous among EMT's for the airbags seeming to never deploy no matter how hard the truck was hit.

Not all systems are the same and not all hardware is the same with regards to SRS systems.
How are the measuring deformation if not with an accelerometer, steel bumpers can cause airbags to go off in minor impacts

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
How are the measuring deformation if not with an accelerometer, steel bumpers can cause airbags to go off in minor impacts

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Pretty simple. two bolts each have a connector on them which both bolt to the body, when the metal deforms the bolts move closer together and close the contacts. The old 90's sensors were like this, there were actually gold forks and pins inside you could see if you disassembled the sensor.
 
Most of everything I said was tongue in cheek and, as far as the examples I picked using seatbelts, that was just to show that guy that more steel is not always the answer and safety features matter.

The truth is this: In some accidents, sliders could help protect you. In some accidents, sliders could multiply the damage to the vehicle and you. The dynamics of an accident are amazingly different with just subtle variations of known values.

The most important fact to be learned from this thread? Some people shouldn't post about physics. I was taught a long time ago, in some situations, it was better to remain quiet and just appear ignorant rather than open my mouth and remove all doubt.

Glad you decided to stay Greg. Haha
 
This "guy" is far more concerned with someone offering engineering advise that could be misused as a blueprint for how or how not to make something more safe. Blindly believing it could directly cause people to die or be injured from doing things based on a non-tested and extremely dangerous opinion. Otherwise, I don't care very much about trying to impress people with my occupation -- note that I don't have the word "engineer" anywhere in my screen name and will not be changing that anytime soon.

Funny thing is, classes in statics and dynamics are available to anyone who wants to study them, not just ME's.

Very seldom do I offer engineering advice. Usually I just explain things and answer questions. For the fifty eleventh time my name is what I am and have been for 30 years. I guess I could make something clever up for a screen name but why? I'm sure duffdog means something right?
Good luck man.
 
Pretty simple. two bolts each have a connector on them which both bolt to the body, when the metal deforms the bolts move closer together and close the contacts. The old 90's sensors were like this, there were actually gold forks and pins inside you could see if you disassembled the sensor.

that's not how the sensors are now
 
All this brings a question to my mind:
Does anyone know definitively how the airbag sensors (side and front) work in the 5th gen? Are they accelerometers? Impact sensors?
I agree with the fact that bumpers and sliders have varying affect on accident outcome. However, if the airbag sensors are in fact impact based, and not acceleration based, it would be difficult to argue against the idea that adding anything that changes the impact points on the vehicle risks preventing the airbags from deploying. This is something serious to be considered, imo.

Now the real question. Who has a 5th gen with sliders on one side and not on the other, that they want to volunteer to get t-boned (once on each side)?
Come on and take one for the team :hungry:
 
I can offer a note I saw about race car design, where the car builder said that in the 60's they built really tough cars that didn't get much damage in an accident, but killed a lot of drivers, because all of the energy was transferred into the driver's space. When they started building race cars that crumpled and spewed parts all over the track, the cars were destroyed, but the drivers walked away. I'll take the crumple zones and other safety features over rigid steel for crash protection.
 
[MENTION=127339]4Reak Show[/MENTION] has me dying. The other arguing is pretty entertaining too. I'll put my money on [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]
 
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[MENTION=127339]4Reak Show[/MENTION] has me dying. The other arguing is pretty entertaining too. I'll put my money on [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]



I'm glad you appreciate the humor. It's sad when these little discussions get all serious and insulting.

Pride's a helluva drug.
 

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