Apple iPhone 8/X and A11

Thai · Sep 15, 2017

Jimmy_D said:
It is awfully cool. I'll probably hold off getting a new iPhone for awhile and see how the user reports on the X are. If there aren't any troubling hardware glitches I may just get one. Who knows.

Good luck! I am pretty sure that the X will be sold out worldwide within 15 min of it being on sale. My guess is that it will be on backorder for 4-6 months at least. (Airpods were on backordered for around 8 months before Apple caught up in making them.)

The X has very advance tech...so that is the limitation on production. Samsung can’t make enough of the display...the 3D cameras etc can’t make enough per rumors.

The chances of you getting one is very slim. Sadly, i do plan on waking up in the middle of the night on Oct 27 to try and order one.

BUT, you’re right...i am sure that there will be teething issues with such a new design and with bleeding edge technology. Hopefully, Apple customer service will continue to be there for the early customers...and they usually are.

Thai · Sep 15, 2017

BlackWorksInc said:
@Thai

Well to be fair "Never Caught" isn't reassuring nor proof that they don't cheat. I wasn't entirely saying "cheating" per say I was referring more to the fact that various factors can affect benchmarks and sometimes companies will tailor a benchmark rig or testing device to their favor (i.e. AMD using displays and games tailored for their GPUs while Intel benchmarks might be on games/software that wasn't really encoded for AMD processors, an older driver being used. ect.) That may toe a grey area that could be constituted as "cheating" or in the case of early Ryzen CPUs it was simply that the industry has coded for Intel primarily and so it was an over-looked consequence in the early results.

But the link is a nice explanation I was looking for, thank you, I was curious more about their testing methods rather than their results. Do you have a link for actual TDP and wattage for both processors? Again I haven't had issues with any of the Qualcomm chips "throttling", but that doesn't entirely surprise me on a benchmark when you're pushing a chip to it's max vs. casual use. Though I will note that if I forget to close out a dozen or so apps and leave them running in the background the phone might get a bit in the 40~47*C range, but outside of that I'm not seeing temps bump past 35~37*C under normal use with GPS/WiFi turned on.

I will note that "published" battery life and "real world" battery life seem to be two vastly different things for both Apple and Android. Apple's phones seem roughly on par with some of the higher end competition, the issue just comes down to battery technology lagging behind in general; at this point there's just no replacement for displacement. Most people I see running i7 or i7+ or even Galaxy phones or other androids aren't making it through the day without a top off, you can only do so much when your batteries are 3000~3500mAh, so I'm not really knocking Apple on this one as it's an everyone problem; I was just more curious what the numbers were. I did find a spec of 2.5~5w TDP for the Snapdragon 835, but nothing for the A11 or even the A10. A bit hard to verify claims of battery & thermal efficiency if all the data isn't there, but eh.

~

The iPhone X actually is a cool product, it's probably one of the nicest looking phones out there at the moment (though I am partial to my S8 Active's more utilitarian look, but these very "sleek" phones have never been appealing to me). The hardware is nice, though I'm seeing a lot of people wondering how well that A11 is going to be utilized, I guess that the A10's had some sort of weird GPU utilization thing going on that the author in the link I posted (Edit- I saw your earlier post, I'll have to look into his claims a bit more I guess, though oddly the few other "Apple" sites that linked his post didn't bother correcting him). It's nice they threw a hot rod motor under their hood, but if the rest of the chassis can't do crap with the power it's not very useful. That's not to say the A11 is crap, just more curious if what it's bolted to is going to properly utilize all that power or is this just a marketing gimmick?

I'm also impressed that Apple didn't come out with a proprietary wireless charging standard (I'm sure they tried really hard knowing them), but it's also not surprising they chose to stick with their proprietary cabling despite going beyond over-board on their Macbooks with USB-C to the point it became a detractor (again Apple just floundering around like they did when they ousted Jobs the first time, shame they won't be saved by him this time). But it's nice to see Apple joining the real world and adopting common standards of powering your device. I'm sure their charging mats are going to be really cool looking though.

I'm not sure how I feel about their FaceID thing, it's technologically impressive and extremely cool. But it's also extremely dangerous, highly invasive, probably somewhat pointless (in some respects for functionality, it seemed more of a "because we can" thing in some cases, not all), and most likely to become co-opted by the government if it hasn't already. It's impressive technology that leaves a lot of questions and implications, but they seem to be making an effort to secure it (if not only for their own purposes, but hey begger's can't be choosers).

Again I also mention it'd be interesting with all that power if they experimented with workstation replacement docks for the iPhone. Obvious issues with it being an Apple for that application aside, I think it could be a good market for them.

I have to agree most of those are ****ing hilarious. I mean look the guy's not wrong about the whole wacky "big brother" comment, but let's be real we've all forfitted ourselves long ago the government has all that information already and companies run the government; Apple's doing what everyone else is. The price of the X is not that shocking when you consider a brand new Note8 is just shy of a grand also, so this outrage over price is laughable.

Yeah, Apple has never been accused of cheating on benchmarks. And if you think about it, you will see that Apple processors don’t usually ramp up their Ghz. They are usually underclocked for what they can do. Again, this has to do with Apple iPhones having tiny batteries...and like you said, there is no replacement for displacement. So, overclocking the processor for a specific task will kill battery life.

Apple iPhones battery life are usually excellent, even when compared with Android flagships. They do extremely well with standby and general daily tasks (texting, Facebook, etc.). However, you will see a fast drop in battery life if you play high-end graphics intensive games...and this is where iPhone battery drains more than say a huge Android phone with big ass battery.

For TDP, again, read Anandtech reviews of devices.

Before we move on, the reason why Apple A-processors are so damn powerful is because they are BIG cores and fully custom design. A-processors (since A7 in 2013) can do DOUBLE the instructions set / cycle than that of Qualcomm/Samsung/Kirin. This is why even today’s Qualcomm S835 single core score is barely better than Apple A7 chip from 2013. S835 single is around 1900. 5 years ago (and still today), A7 chip is still running around 1400.

That tech blog link that you linked above is by an idiot. I am not sure which Apple site linked him. I have NEVER heard of this guy. He’s an “analyst” which means that he has as much info as you and me. He is not an insider or even in the processor industry. What he wrote (and i pointed it out above) is pure utter nonsense.

Remember, A11 is not just a hot rod for nothing. A11 has CPU. GPU. And a NEURAL chip for AI. 3 major components on a SoC. A11 has to do A LOT of artificial intelligence computation in pretty much everything it does...from unlocking your phone via FaceID (again using AI)...to taking a picture and determining the scene and what to focus on...to taking a portrait and adjusting lighting and de-focus areas...to doing Augmented Reality...to making animated emojis...etc....and all done in REAL-TIME.

I can tell you that my iPhone 7 Plus gets quite warm when i do Portrait mode on camera because the A10 chip has to ramp up its pistons to do real-time computation on the what the camera is seeing and doing to give that defocus look while keeping subject in focus.

A11 chip takes REAL-TIME computation to the next level and this is why some of the things done by iPhone 8/X cannot be done on the A10 chip of iPhone 7. A11’s Neural chip is what takes it to the next level.

And this is why Kirin 970 chip in the upcoming Huawei phone is so important. Kirin 970 will have a neural chip as well. What does Qualcomm have? NOTHING. And this is why Qualcomm is being trashed on...they got destroyed by Apple chip making in 2013 (“they got caught with their pants down” was a common expression) and has since being farther and farther falling behind. And now, in 2017, they are being passed by a Chinese company.

Qualcomm is now in 3rd place in terms of chip prowess. They are losing customers left and right. How long do you think Samsung will be their customer? Samsung is already making their own chip (Exynos) and what is holding Samsung chips back are: lackluster GPU and not good enough LTE modems. Samsung has very deep pockets...it is only a matter of time before they upscale their GPU (Mali) and make their own modems. LG already has plans to make their own chip as well. Google? Yup...they even hired a former Apple guy who specialized in chip making.

As for wireless...don’t be surprise if Qi is just a stepping stone to something BIGGER. The future is truly wireless/padless charging. Energous, for example, is a very interesting company that is specializing in wireless (aka air charging) charging. Energous has apparently teamed up with “someone whose products is in every home”. Many think that someone is Apple. And if so, then my guess is that energous will have an exclusive agreement with Apple.

How is FACEID dangerous? Invasive?

Again, iPad PROs are using A-processors. IPad pros do a lot more than what the Samsung dock can do.

Yes, i agree...$999 is not a bad price for the technology in the X. Note 8 costs $940 i think. LG V30 is around $840. The X has bleeding edge technology. FaceID alone is reportedly 2-3 years ahead of anything from Android/Qualcomm. And 2 years ahead in tech world is an eternity.

Thai · Sep 15, 2017

Looks like A11 chip performance is repeatable...another Geekbench score:

Thai · Sep 15, 2017

Here is a good article with some (superficial) insight into the A11 chip: The inside story of 'brain' of the iPhone X: the A11 Bionic chip

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

“Building its own GPU is also another key to owning the entire stack. Schiller noted that now Apple has everything from graphics hardware to compilers, programming languages, to the OS — including frameworks and libraries.”

In other words, GPU and CPU of A11 is fully custom design and Apple own design. That idiotic article you linked above is pure crap, as i said earlier just from reading it.

Thai · Sep 15, 2017

More info on A11 GPU: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/metal/about_gpu_family_4

As for Apple not really designing their own chips: A Top Israeli Technology Executive Notes that Apple's 700 Engineers are mainly working on new Chip Designs - Patently Apple

“They acquired Anobit and PrimeSense, two companies whose main activity was chip design, and hired hundreds of chip designers who were let go from other companies, like Texas Instruments."

He further noted that all this happened over just the past three years – before which Apple had no Israeli presence at all. Now Apple has more than 700 engineers in Israel, and is planning to hire more – "and all of them are working on chip design."“

Here is Anandtech article on Apple and Imagination Technology divorce: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11243/apple-developing-custom-gpu-dropping-imagination

Ed_C · Sep 15, 2017

So how much faster will p0rn download compared to a iPhone 7? Asking for a friend...

:tongue1:

Thai · Sep 15, 2017

Ed_C said:
So how much faster will p0rn download compared to a iPhone 7? Asking for a friend...

:tongue1:

It will be over before you even know it...but that is nothing new for this “friend,” is it??

BlackWorksInc · Sep 16, 2017

@Thai

Good information, the A11 is fairly impressive. I've heard similar things about Huawei, they've been overshadowing Apple in market dominance in China and have been expanding rapidly. Though there's a lot of curious security quirks/issues in their phones that almost seems purposeful from a few articles I've seen. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the Chinese government has some influence in that company and has tried a sort of back-door spying program through their products (some of the oddities in their products seem to indicate an almost willful design rather than piss poor coding).

As for FaceID, it's all dependent on what happens with the Data. There isn't a company or government alive that is truly humanitarian or philanthropic, they're not safeguarding your data for you, their doing it so they have the power. Information in this day and age provides companies the ability to exist outside of government reach and in some cases even control governments, a company like Google, Apple, Amazon, ect. would be idiots not to take advantage of all that power.

I'll to hunt down the actual study information, but 3 universities have already confirmed what I suspected (it's not super damning or anything really, but it does confirm my suspicions that Apple has and is probably utilizing the data they gather far more than they let on), https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-shortcomings/. It's an interesting read and while a lot of that information is regarding "opt-in" data, realistically companies have been subtly "opting in" customers for a while (Microsoft's Win10 debacle is the quickest that comes to mind) without their knowledge in many cases. In any case, the point here isn't to say that Apple has no security or that they're stealing 100% of your data.

Rather the point is if they want it, they can get your information and realistically you will probably never know; they wrote the code and they manage the variables for that code. The government can and probably will make a handful of public efforts to push Apple and others into providing access to FaceID and programs like it; not because they couldn't get access themselves, but like the Locked iPhone situation a couple years back, to set precedent for their actions and not need to do it behind closed doors.

That's really the danger in FaceID, it's not the program or the technology itself; that's all very cool and innovative. It's about all that raw data that isn't getting entirely erased and how it's being handled and by who. I know Apple's made statements that they're working really hard to make sure it's secure; but unless they're using quantum entanglement/encryption there's no 100% way to do that. Right now Apple holds the cards so to speak and they tend to control the data they collect fairly well (not a whole lot of leaks on their side, well besides internal agents throwing company info on the public sphere), but that doesn't mean they're not using it for their own means.

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

[MENTION=116955]black[/MENTION]sWorksInc

FaceID and privacy/security: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/15/i...answers-some-burning-questions-about-face-id/

Quotes:

When it comes to customers — users — Apple gathers absolutely nothing itself. Federighi was very explicit on this point.

“We do not gather customer data when you enroll in Face ID, it stays on your device, we do not send it to the cloud for training data,” he notes.

There is an adaptive feature of Face ID that allows it to continue to recognize your changing face as you change hair styles, grow a beard or have plastic surgery. This adaptation is done completely on device by applying re-training and deep learning in the redesigned Secure Enclave. None of that training or re-training is done in Apple’s cloud.

When you train the data it gets immediately stored in the Secure Enclave as a mathematical model that cannot be reverse-engineered back into a “model of a face.” Any re-training also happens there. It’s on your device, in your SE (secure enclave), period.

“On older phones the sequence was to click 5 times [on the power button], but on newer phones like iPhone 8 and iPhone X, if you grip the side buttons on either side and hold them a little while — we’ll take you to the power down [screen]. But that also has the effect of disabling Face ID,” says Federighi. “So, if you were in a case where the thief was asking to hand over your phone — you can just reach into your pocket, squeeze it, and it will disable Face ID. It will do the same thing on iPhone 8 to disable Touch ID.”

It’s worth noting a few additional details here:

- If you haven’t used Face ID in 48 hours, or if you’ve just rebooted, it will ask for a passcode.

- If there are 5 failed attempts to Face ID, it will default back to passcode. (Federighi has confirmed that this is what happened in the demo onstage when he was asked for a passcode — it tried to read the people setting the phones up on the podium.)

- Developers do not have access to raw sensor data from the Face ID array. Instead, they’re given a depth map they can use for applications like the Snap face filters shown onstage. This can also be used in ARKit applications.

- You’ll also get a passcode request if you haven’t unlocked the phone using a passcode or at all in 6.5 days and if Face ID hasn’t unlocked it in 4 hours.

One anecdotal thing: If you lift your phone and swipe up immediately, there’s a good chance that the Face ID system will have performed its authentication fast enough to have unlocked your device by the time you finish your swipe. That’s how fast it is.

Federighi says that Apple has tested it extensively and it should not matter what your cultural background is, Face ID will work with your face.

The fact of the matter is that there is likely an outsized amount of skepticism about Face ID because other manufacturers like Samsung have shipped versions of facial recognition that are, frankly, crap. If it can be fooled by a simple photo, what the hell are you doing shipping it at all?

Face ID is not a simple image recognition system. It looks at a three-dimensional model of your entire face, recognizing features at a level of detail high enough that Apple is confident that masks will not fool it. It’s a different ballgame entirely.

Apple’s Face ID processes mirror very closely those they developed for Touch ID. And, even though there are caveats, those have largely stood up to probing from security researchers and nation states alike.

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

BlackWorksInc said:
@Thai

Good information, the A11 is fairly impressive. I've heard similar things about Huawei, they've been overshadowing Apple in market dominance in China and have been expanding rapidly. Though there's a lot of curious security quirks/issues in their phones that almost seems purposeful from a few articles I've seen. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the Chinese government has some influence in that company and has tried a sort of back-door spying program through their products (some of the oddities in their products seem to indicate an almost willful design rather than piss poor coding).

As for FaceID, it's all dependent on what happens with the Data. There isn't a company or government alive that is truly humanitarian or philanthropic, they're not safeguarding your data for you, their doing it so they have the power. Information in this day and age provides companies the ability to exist outside of government reach and in some cases even control governments, a company like Google, Apple, Amazon, ect. would be idiots not to take advantage of all that power.

I'll to hunt down the actual study information, but 3 universities have already confirmed what I suspected (it's not super damning or anything really, but it does confirm my suspicions that Apple has and is probably utilizing the data they gather far more than they let on), https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-shortcomings/. It's an interesting read and while a lot of that information is regarding "opt-in" data, realistically companies have been subtly "opting in" customers for a while (Microsoft's Win10 debacle is the quickest that comes to mind) without their knowledge in many cases. In any case, the point here isn't to say that Apple has no security or that they're stealing 100% of your data.

Rather the point is if they want it, they can get your information and realistically you will probably never know; they wrote the code and they manage the variables for that code. The government can and probably will make a handful of public efforts to push Apple and others into providing access to FaceID and programs like it; not because they couldn't get access themselves, but like the Locked iPhone situation a couple years back, to set precedent for their actions and not need to do it behind closed doors.

That's really the danger in FaceID, it's not the program or the technology itself; that's all very cool and innovative. It's about all that raw data that isn't getting entirely erased and how it's being handled and by who. I know Apple's made statements that they're working really hard to make sure it's secure; but unless they're using quantum entanglement/encryption there's no 100% way to do that. Right now Apple holds the cards so to speak and they tend to control the data they collect fairly well (not a whole lot of leaks on their side, well besides internal agents throwing company info on the public sphere), but that doesn't mean they're not using it for their own means.

Did you read the whole article??

Yes, as you stated, there is a clear opt-in. Next, the researchers “added” the epsilon. Because Apple is a closed system, these researchers made A LOT of assumptions and jumping to conclusions.

I don’t expect Apple to safeguard my data. I expect Apple to provide me the tools to encrypt my data. I don’t have anything interesting in iCloud. I only have things on my devices that are encrypted. Even my backups are encrypted.

This is where Android and iOS diverged. With Android you HOPE that Google safeguards your cloud data and what it gets. There is minimal encryption available on Google’s own apps.

Apple provides Secure Enclave on their devices...apparently stronger with the new iPhones. Their new APFS (Apple File System) main focus is encryption.

Can it be broken? I am sure, but it is not easy...see san bernardino shooting...and that was on an iPhone 5c i think. Since then, Apple iPhones have become much more secure, esp. iOS 11 and the new iPhones.

You make a lot of assumptions about Apple without really any facts...it is almost as if you’re describing Android and Facebook.

I am surprise that with all your paranoia, you own an Android device, much less an openly corrupted company like Samsung at that!! I just don’t understand your dislike of Apple.

BlackWorksInc · Sep 16, 2017

@Thai

I'm not entirely discounting what you've posted, it's good information and I'm sure most of it's true.

But all I see here is "Apple swears they're not doing it, so we just have to believe them". That' not good enough, you're saying that you implicitly trust a for-profit company that has shown a lack of morality and disregard for rules and regulations, who's only goal is making sure it's share holders and investors turn a profit (which basically describes every company out there, just to be clear here).

I'd be just as suspicious if it was Samsung, Google, or even the ghost of Steve Christ Jobs himself asking me to trust them. I'll be more convinced if non-biased 3rd party inspectors/researchers could equivocally prove Apple's statements.

I'm sure Equifax told it's customers "no one could ever get into our systems, all your data is safe!" and they took over a month to disclose they'd been breached. Intel has had a backdoor in their CPUs for nearly a decade and the US Government goes "oh yeah, we knew about that hasn't been an issue on our PCs we went in and changed it"; assuming said backdoor was actually a mistake and not a design goal.

"...stored in the Secure Enclave as a mathematical model that cannot be reverse-engineered..." is that the same mathematical model that they used for their data-obfuscation? Because so far there's 3 groups of researchers who are pointing out that while yes they do "fuzzy" up the data, it's simply a matter of time and context for Apple to decode it, if they want; assuming they don't just modify the epsilon values in their favor. Besides Appe's PR Team, who has verified that this "Mathematical Model" truly cannot be backwards engineered? Have you seen the code, the very meth that encrypts this data, to verify Apple's statements?

I'm not saying this as a jab at you or a slap in the face or anything; I'm asking because the only option here is to simply believe that Apple's telling the truth. Which given their track record (and again, to be fair, the track record of any company Apple/Google's size) that's a risky proposition. Just because they haven't been "caught" yet doesn't exclude the possibility they are doing something worth being "caught" for as they have in the past. That's the primary concern here with FaceID (not my concern but Congress's and a lot of people's concern regarding technology like FaceID) is that we have to trust that "they" are telling the truth 100% of the time; Apple's not some philanthropic saint out to better humanity.

I like FaceID, I think it's the bee's knees; but I also see how dangerous it can be, particularly when so far it's security rests on "just take our word for it and look at our slides".

Natey · Sep 16, 2017

why in the world would she want to open his phone?? :whip2:

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

BlackWorksInc said:
@Thai

Good information, the A11 is fairly impressive. I've heard similar things about Huawei, they've been overshadowing Apple in market dominance in China and have been expanding rapidly. Though there's a lot of curious security quirks/issues in their phones that almost seems purposeful from a few articles I've seen. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the Chinese government has some influence in that company and has tried a sort of back-door spying program through their products (some of the oddities in their products seem to indicate an almost willful design rather than piss poor coding).

As for FaceID, it's all dependent on what happens with the Data. There isn't a company or government alive that is truly humanitarian or philanthropic, they're not safeguarding your data for you, their doing it so they have the power. Information in this day and age provides companies the ability to exist outside of government reach and in some cases even control governments, a company like Google, Apple, Amazon, ect. would be idiots not to take advantage of all that power.

I'll to hunt down the actual study information, but 3 universities have already confirmed what I suspected (it's not super damning or anything really, but it does confirm my suspicions that Apple has and is probably utilizing the data they gather far more than they let on), https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-shortcomings/. It's an interesting read and while a lot of that information is regarding "opt-in" data, realistically companies have been subtly "opting in" customers for a while (Microsoft's Win10 debacle is the quickest that comes to mind) without their knowledge in many cases. In any case, the point here isn't to say that Apple has no security or that they're stealing 100% of your data.

Rather the point is if they want it, they can get your information and realistically you will probably never know; they wrote the code and they manage the variables for that code. The government can and probably will make a handful of public efforts to push Apple and others into providing access to FaceID and programs like it; not because they couldn't get access themselves, but like the Locked iPhone situation a couple years back, to set precedent for their actions and not need to do it behind closed doors.

That's really the danger in FaceID, it's not the program or the technology itself; that's all very cool and innovative. It's about all that raw data that isn't getting entirely erased and how it's being handled and by who. I know Apple's made statements that they're working really hard to make sure it's secure; but unless they're using quantum entanglement/encryption there's no 100% way to do that. Right now Apple holds the cards so to speak and they tend to control the data they collect fairly well (not a whole lot of leaks on their side, well besides internal agents throwing company info on the public sphere), but that doesn't mean they're not using it for their own means.

My question is...why do you own a Samsung or Android device? Why not a flip phone? You claim that Apple is sooooo bad...why do you own devices from companies (Google and Samsung) that are openly WORST in terms of privacy and security???

Again, you’re making weird connections here. No one is saying that Apple cannot be cracked. But among the companies out there, Apple is probably the BEST one in terms of privacy and security for the CONSUMERS.

Just look at the bounty to crack iOS...it is in the MILLIONS of dollars. Bounty to crack Android...$200k on average.

You’re GREATLY misunderstanding here. Things in Secure Enclave are NOT uploaded to cloud dude!! WTF are you talking about?! What the researchers are saying that Apple collects is NOT what is stored in Secure Enclave. Come on man, read the damn article from beginning to end!!

Who has verified that Secure Enclave is really hard to crack? San Bernardino case was pretty convincing, no?!

Again, Apple since San Bernardino case has greatly hardened its encryption tools including a brand new file system.

Again, what is the bounty to crack iOS? How does that compare to Windows? How does that compare to Android?

I think that you are truly misguided because you don’t understand how these things work...i think. OR you are just extremely bias and blinded by your hate of Apple.

You do remind me of that “analyst” from that article you linked to above. Little knowledge of things can be a bad thing.

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

Natey said:
why in the world would she want to open his phone?? :whip2:

It will only work if his phone is an Android.

That only works with Android Face Unlock and Samsung facial recognition. It will NOT work with Apple FaceID.

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

Bottom line...look at San Bernardino case.

All your arguments can be answered with that case. Was TouchID data uploaded to cloud? No. Was passcode uploaded to cloud? No. Was this guy’s messages uploaded to cloud? No. Etc.. In each of these things, Apple had NOTHING to give to FBI.

BlackWorksInc · Sep 16, 2017

Thai said:
Did you read the whole article??

Yes, as you stated, there is a clear opt-in. Next, the researchers “added” the epsilon. Because Apple is a closed system, these researchers made A LOT of assumptions and jumping to conclusions.

I don’t expect Apple to safeguard my data. I expect Apple to provide me the tools to encrypt my data. I don’t have anything interesting in iCloud. I only have things on my devices that are encrypted. Even my backups are encrypted.

This is where Android and iOS diverged. With Android you HOPE that Google safeguards your cloud data and what it gets. There is minimal encryption available on Google’s own apps.

Apple provides Secure Enclave on their devices...apparently stronger with the new iPhones. Their new APFS (Apple File System) main focus is encryption.

Can it be broken? I am sure, but it is not easy...see san bernardino shooting...and that was on an iPhone 5c i think. Since then, Apple iPhones have become much more secure, esp. iOS 11 and the new iPhones.

You make a lot of assumptions about Apple without really any facts...it is almost as if you’re describing Android and Facebook.

I am surprise that with all your paranoia, you own an Android device, much less an openly corrupted company like Samsung at that!! I just don’t understand your dislike of Apple.

The San Bernidino shooting situation wasn't that the government couldn't get into the phone, because once the government realized they were winning in court there conveniently was a 3rd party who was able to decrypt the phone for them (then conveniently the whole situation was dropped and no one even questions the 3rd party's involvement or sudden appearance). It was about setting a precedent for overt decryption in the public sphere; why waste money and time doing it in the shadows and then having to explain how that information magically appears when they can just set it up so all they have to do is issue a public order. The San Bernidino situation was actually the best example that the government is still using 9/11 and it's "temporary measure" enacted to erode our rights and continue to maintain control over the populace.

You're right about the researchers making assumptions there, which is why I said it wasn't damning or anything. The point was more that it could be done and that it can be controlled more than was let on, how much more is debatable as you pointed out because of assumptions that were made.

But having implicit trust in a company that has over the course of it's existence been okay with essentially slave/child labor (until they got caught a couple times), tax evasion (but they enamored congress with shiny phones so it's okay), as well as not acknowledging defective technology (battery issues, screen issues, ect.) among other things is just disturbing and dangerous (to be clear I'm not saying that Apple is the only one doing it, rather I'm saying they're doing exactly what everyone else does). You and other fans of Apple have an almost cult-like belief in Apple's inability to do wrong, that in and of itself is distressing since Apple capitalizes on that "religion" constantly to deflect anything that could tarnish their image. They're one of the few companies out there that basically has a religion as their marketing campaign.

I don't trust Google or Samsung or Microsoft or even Toyota (who I work for) to "do the right thing", but all the information they have is information I'm not concerned about because it's all information that's readily available to any hacker that wants it and honestly is of no consequence to me. There isn't anything on my phone or my computers that I need "safeguarded", my search history is probably a weird read for some, but they'll be bored by any files they find on any of my devices. The only truly important information I own is either in hard copy or the government has, which if someone hack the government (or say Equifax) I'm ****ed anyways and no Secure Enclave is saving me.

I'm aware of the fact that as a person in today's world there's no such thing as privacy or private information. I just don't make an effort to put information that I don't want people getting where they can get it.

I'm no interested in derailing your thread too much away from the iPhoneX & the A11 processor. I just wanted to clarify why FaceID sits uneasily with me as it opens the door for a lot of things, it's not the technology that bothers me just the implications that come with it. I am not a fan of Samsung or Android, I use their products because they suit my needs, I've always maintained a belief that Apple is no better than Samsung, Google, or any other company out there; it's not an inherent hatred of the company it's realizing they're not any different.

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

Oh dear!!! Your posts are beginning to make my head sad. :crazy:

FBI was winning in court? We must be reading something different. Apple was holding their own both in court AND in public eye. Remember how every big companies were behind Apple??? FBI dropped the case once the Israeli company and FBI agreed on $2 million dollar (forgot exact amount) to have the company crack the iPhone 5c. Your view of the whole matter is warped dude. Totally wrong.

Slave and child labor? Did you know Samsung was accused of same? Nike? Guess which on of these companies actually corrected the actions of their affiliates? Apple.

Tax evasion? Isn’t that every damn company in the world? Why single out Apple?

Dude, SAMSUNG CEO got jailed just last month for bribery!!! Yet, you are the biggest Samsung fanboy i know!

Battery issues? Screen issues? Name me ONE smartphone OEM that have not had those things and ignore it? Bootloop anyone?? Bendgate you say? Nexus 6P. Heck, there is now an uproar over LG V30 OLED display being shitty. OnePlus Jello display that is “normal”?? Or Motorola display being easily scratched. Or Note 7 exploding...and it took Samsung how long to finally admit it and recall?

Disturbing and dangerous???!!!! :crazy:

Again, i am really not sure what you’re getting at. You’re just so bias and blind by your hatred of Apple that facts and logic evade you.

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-labor-in-china-again/?utm_term=.7f8534a76b32

The New York-based watchdog China Labor Watch (CLW) published a report Thursday about a factory known as Shinyang Electronics, which provides parts for cellphones sold by Samsung. The group said that by the third day of its “undercover investigation,” it had found five workers under 16 were working at the Shinyang Electronics factory. The workers did not have contracts, worked 11 hours a day, and were underpaid, according to the group’s report.

At the time of audit report, Samsung was already under fire in South Korea, where the company was accused of making its own workers sick and even causing death from chemicals released from a Samsung’s chip factory.

Previous allegations from the China Labor Watch in 2012 said Samsung was turning a blind eye to child labor at its suppliers in China. The 2012 report also accused the Samsung supplier of making its employees work “inhumane” hours.
—————————————————————————————-

Wow Samsung...you just entered the Apple Evil Zone!

So, given above and recent bribery charges against Samsung and its CEO i expect YOU to dump your Samsung devices ASAP!!! They are apparently just as bad (actually worst) than Apple.

Come on dude...step up. Stand behind your principles! Show me what you wrote above is from your heart.

BlackWorksInc · Sep 16, 2017

Thai said:
Oh dear!!! Your posts are beginning to make my head sad. :crazy:

FBI was winning in court? We must be reading something different. FBI dropped the case once the Israeli company and FBI agreed on $2 million dollar (forgot exact amount) to have the company crack the iPhone 5c. Your view of the whole matter is warped dude. Totally wrong.

Slave and child labor? Did you know Samsung was accused of same? Nike? Guess which on of these companies actually corrected the actions of their affiliates? Apple.

Tax evasion? Isn’t that every damn company in the world? Why single out Apple?

Dude, SAMSUNG CEO got jailed just last month for bribery!!! Yet, you are the biggest Samsung fanboy i know!

Battery issues? Screen issues? Name me ONE smartphone OEM that have not had those things and ignore it? Bootloop anyone?? Bendgate you say? Nexus 6P. Heck, there is now an uproar over LG V30 OLED display being shitty. Or Motorola display being easily scratched. Or Note 7 exploding...and it took Samsung how long to finally admit it and recall?

Disturbing and dangerous???!!!! :crazy:

Again, i am really not sure what you’re getting at. You’re just so bias and blind by your hatred of Apple that facts and logic evade you.

Please read what I said, I stated that the government was losing, not winning I'm not sure where you got that from; I'd also like to point out that the FBI was not the only vested interest in that matter, they were merely the ones needing the information at that time.

Also again, all the examples I pointed out were specifically to point out that Apple does the exact same thing as all those other companies not that they are the worse than those companies. You do this every single time even when I go out of my way to implicitly state my intent of pointing out they do what other companies do. I totally agree and acknowledge all those other company's faults and failures, I'm well aware they are not better than Apple and have constantly maintained that.

Also Apple got nailed for child/slave labor multiple times over I believe it was 5yrs despite "fixing the problem", which again isn't abnormal for any company Apple's size.

I have and will continue to emphasize that Apple is no better than any other company. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be with that, because you constantly ignore that despite me almost having to repeat it in every post. At this point it's obviously willfully ignoring that because you cannot admit that Apple is no better than any other company out there, a common failing I've seen in other "cultists" I have no problem admitting Samsung is company fraught with ethical issues, or Nike, or Google, or Wells Fargo; but that is irrelevant to what I am saying and what I have maintained.

I'd rather not derail your thread any further to go back and forth with you on the fact you're incapable of seeing or admitting that Apple is just like every other company it's size, it's obvious every time someone questions your faith in Apple. But do you really want to just go round about over this?

Thai · Sep 16, 2017

Or this: Tax evasion, bribery and price-fixing: How Samsung became the giant that ate Korea | The Independent

Or this: Samsung's chairman is indicted for tax evasion in corruption case - The New York Times

All old news...from the “father”. He just does business the “old fashion” way.

Oh wait never mind, the whole damn executive team of modern day Samsung is corrupt: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...est-of-head-of-samsung-in-corruption-scandal/

Apple does not fall far from the tree, huh?

Apple iPhone 8/X and A11

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