08 SR5 V6 4.0 Re-gear

[montijo505]

Hey guys,

If I'm beating a dead horse I'm sorry in advance but I've searched and been unable to find much on this topic for 4th gens. I'm interested in going to 4.56 gears from East Coast Gear Supply. Reason why is after my Toytec Ultimate and 33"s I feel like my truck lost a noticeable amount of power, not drastic but enough for it to bug me. If there's anyone with experience that can share what they did, or even better what exactly I would need, I would greatly appreciate it. Also what are the stock sizes on our trucks and would 4.56 be a good choice? Or would 4.88 be better? Don't really drive much on the highway but would still like to be able to do so comfortably when needed, thanks in advance!

 

[wnelax04sr5]

Hey guys,

If I'm beating a dead horse I'm sorry in advance but I've searched and been unable to find much on this topic for 4th gens. I'm interested in going to 4.56 gears from East Coast Gear Supply. Reason why is after my Toytec Ultimate and 33"s I feel like my truck lost a noticeable amount of power, not drastic but enough for it to bug me. If there's anyone with experience that can share what they did, or even better what exactly I would need, I would greatly appreciate it. Also what are the stock sizes on our trucks and would 4.56 be a good choice? Or would 4.88 be better? Don't really drive much on the highway but would still like to be able to do so comfortably when needed, thanks in advance!

[MENTION=65653]aha2988[/MENTION]

 

[Plumber]

IMO and I think most on here will agree, the change to 33's is not enough of a change to warrant a gear change. And if I remember correctly a change to a higher ratio will net more low speed power and not higher highway fuel economy

 

[Brownfaux]

If you don't know the stock size why would you think 4.56?

I don't know the stock size either, but I searched and the consensus is it's not worth it to re gear based on that tire size.

Also, rather than just search this forum, just google the dang thing. It's covered.

 

[aha2988]

IMO and I think most on here will agree, the change to 33's is not enough of a change to warrant a gear change. And if I remember correctly a change to a higher ratio will net more low speed power and not higher highway fuel economy

If you don't know the stock size why would you think 4.56?

I don't know the stock size either, but I searched and the consensus is it's not worth it to re gear based on that tire size.

Also, rather than just search this forum, just google the dang thing. It's covered.

I have to say its a little disappointing to read the "just search it" posts and "its not worth it"... Do you guys even gear bro? haha If you dont have any info on the matter its best to not fill the forum with useless info others will have to get through to find correct info.. just my $.02 on that matter.. anyway back to the reason for this thread....

Hey guys,

If I'm beating a dead horse I'm sorry in advance but I've searched and been unable to find much on this topic for 4th gens. I'm interested in going to 4.56 gears from East Coast Gear Supply. Reason why is after my Toytec Ultimate and 33"s I feel like my truck lost a noticeable amount of power, not drastic but enough for it to bug me. If there's anyone with experience that can share what they did, or even better what exactly I would need, I would greatly appreciate it. Also what are the stock sizes on our trucks and would 4.56 be a good choice? Or would 4.88 be better? Don't really drive much on the highway but would still like to be able to do so comfortably when needed, thanks in advance!

For starters the stock gear ratio is 3.73, stepping up to a 4.56 or 4.88 will net you more low end torque acceleration; however, its a trade off that causes you to lose top end speed.. so you can get out into traffic with ease but running 75-80+mph you'll be turning 3000rpm or better. So thats the back story on the effects..

going to 33's is just enough to rob the engine and drive train of power to make it noticeable but not quite enough to justify re gearing to 4.56's/4.88's (and most that go to a 4.88 are definitely running 35's and they're also regular rock crawlers that need the low end torque to hop over rocks and what not. I see more of the 22r guys running 4.88's than anyone else)


[MENTION=68704]superman3043[/MENTION] did the math on our rigs a while back when I was looking into re gearing and found that 4.11's would be a perfect ratio for 33's for someone that saw mild offroad action and ran their rig as a daily driver. I went with 4.56's to help with towing trailers as well I'd like to think at some point I'll be adding 35's to the build list and the 4.56's numbers looked awesome at that tire size. These numbers were based on V8's rpm hp/torque out put so I'd imagine the v6 on 33's may get a better response to 4.56's you can ask him to do the math.. he's one of those engineer people that 60% of the time is right every time! haha

I've been extremely happy with my results from regearing. It didnt net me any gas mileage savings as some like to think would be a result but it brought back the drive ability of the 4r after a lift and tires.. as far as what you need? with East Coast Gear supply you just tell them the type of axles you have and then tell them the gear ratio you would like and yes or no to other options such as solid pinion spacer (definitely recommended) or lockers (certainly optional pending off-road needs and budget; however, if you think you'll add lockers in the future best to do all the axle work at once) then they ship you the built 3rd member for the rear and the IFS clamshell housing for the front. you install these items then send your old ifs clamshell and third member back to them for a core charge that they defer for 3 weeks after the initial purchase. so all you really need is a check book and a few tools to tear down and rebuild whats there.. no need to build the differentials yourself unless your just feeling up for a big head ache or you're a professional driveline tech.

hope this helps a bit and for anyone else uncertain of the gear ratio in the 4th gen 4runners.. they are all equiped with 3.73's.. 2wd and 4wd.. Erik's Toyota Differential info

 

[Plumber]

I have to say its a little disappointing to read the "just search it" posts and "its not worth it"... Do you guys even gear bro? haha If you dont have any info on the matter its best to not fill the forum with useless info others will have to get through to find correct info.. just my $.02 on that matter.. anyway back to the reason for this thread....



For starters the stock gear ratio is 3.73, stepping up to a 4.56 or 4.88 will net you more low end torque acceleration; however, its a trade off that causes you to lose top end speed.. so you can get out into traffic with ease but running 75-80+mph you'll be turning 3000rpm or better. So thats the back story on the effects..

going to 33's is just enough to rob the engine and drive train of power to make it noticeable but not quite enough to justify re gearing to 4.56's/4.88's (and most that go to a 4.88 are definitely running 35's and they're also regular rock crawlers that need the low end torque to hop over rocks and what not. I see more of the 22r guys running 4.88's than anyone else)


[MENTION=68704]superman3043[/MENTION] did the math on our rigs a while back when I was looking into re gearing and found that 4.11's would be a perfect ratio for 33's for someone that saw mild offroad action and ran their rig as a daily driver. I went with 4.56's to help with towing trailers as well I'd like to think at some point I'll be adding 35's to the build list and the 4.56's numbers looked awesome at that tire size. These numbers were based on V8's rpm hp/torque out put so I'd imagine the v6 on 33's may get a better response to 4.56's you can ask him to do the math.. he's one of those engineer people that 60% of the time is right every time! haha

I've been extremely happy with my results from regearing. It didnt net me any gas mileage savings as some like to think would be a result but it brought back the drive ability of the 4r after a lift and tires.. as far as what you need? with East Coast Gear supply you just tell them the type of axles you have and then tell them the gear ratio you would like and yes or no to other options such as solid pinion spacer (definitely recommended) or lockers (certainly optional pending off-road needs and budget; however, if you think you'll add lockers in the future best to do all the axle work at once) then they ship you the built 3rd member for the rear and the IFS clamshell housing for the front. you install these items then send your old ifs clamshell and third member back to them for a core charge that they defer for 3 weeks after the initial purchase. so all you really need is a check book and a few tools to tear down and rebuild whats there.. no need to build the differentials yourself unless your just feeling up for a big head ache or you're a professional driveline tech.

hope this helps a bit and for anyone else uncertain of the gear ratio in the 4th gen 4runners.. they are all equiped with 3.73's.. 2wd and 4wd.. Erik's Toyota Differential info

Didn't mean to step on any toes, just another view point. But after looking at the TW calculator, I am leaning towards agreeing with you. Although I wouldn't personally do it thats not what the OP was asking.

265/70-R16 vs 285/75-R16 Tire Comparison - Tire Size Calculator

 

[Brownfaux]

Good info man. I usually don't comment like I did, and I'm going to go back to not doing it. Lol. I had just searched the exact thing, and when I saw the results just went f--- it.

But I will be re gearing my 1st gen.

 

[montijo505]

I have to say its a little disappointing to read the "just search it" posts and "its not worth it"... Do you guys even gear bro? haha If you dont have any info on the matter its best to not fill the forum with useless info others will have to get through to find correct info.. just my $.02 on that matter.. anyway back to the reason for this thread....



For starters the stock gear ratio is 3.73, stepping up to a 4.56 or 4.88 will net you more low end torque acceleration; however, its a trade off that causes you to lose top end speed.. so you can get out into traffic with ease but running 75-80+mph you'll be turning 3000rpm or better. So thats the back story on the effects..

going to 33's is just enough to rob the engine and drive train of power to make it noticeable but not quite enough to justify re gearing to 4.56's/4.88's (and most that go to a 4.88 are definitely running 35's and they're also regular rock crawlers that need the low end torque to hop over rocks and what not. I see more of the 22r guys running 4.88's than anyone else)


[MENTION=68704]superman3043[/MENTION] did the math on our rigs a while back when I was looking into re gearing and found that 4.11's would be a perfect ratio for 33's for someone that saw mild offroad action and ran their rig as a daily driver. I went with 4.56's to help with towing trailers as well I'd like to think at some point I'll be adding 35's to the build list and the 4.56's numbers looked awesome at that tire size. These numbers were based on V8's rpm hp/torque out put so I'd imagine the v6 on 33's may get a better response to 4.56's you can ask him to do the math.. he's one of those engineer people that 60% of the time is right every time! haha

I've been extremely happy with my results from regearing. It didnt net me any gas mileage savings as some like to think would be a result but it brought back the drive ability of the 4r after a lift and tires.. as far as what you need? with East Coast Gear supply you just tell them the type of axles you have and then tell them the gear ratio you would like and yes or no to other options such as solid pinion spacer (definitely recommended) or lockers (certainly optional pending off-road needs and budget; however, if you think you'll add lockers in the future best to do all the axle work at once) then they ship you the built 3rd member for the rear and the IFS clamshell housing for the front. you install these items then send your old ifs clamshell and third member back to them for a core charge that they defer for 3 weeks after the initial purchase. so all you really need is a check book and a few tools to tear down and rebuild whats there.. no need to build the differentials yourself unless your just feeling up for a big head ache or you're a professional driveline tech.

hope this helps a bit and for anyone else uncertain of the gear ratio in the 4th gen 4runners.. they are all equiped with 3.73's.. 2wd and 4wd.. Erik's Toyota Differential info

Thank you Aha, really good info. Hopefully superman will chime in on here! My rig seems ok like I said it's not a drastic power loss just seems like when I hit a steep slope on the road and such I end up having to gun it to not SLOW down lol. I would also like to add a full plate front bumper like yours in the future so I know I'll take another loss there cause of the weight. As far as lockers go I have no use for them, we don't have many trails that look like the ones you subject your rig to! Gas mileage I don't care about, I don't expect to drive around a lifted rig with MT's and get the mpg's of a Prius lol. In the end what I would like from a regear would be to gain back some power and have my rig run smoother, right now it seems like it searches gears a lot just driving around, definitely wasn't like that before.

 

[gm350reratliff]

I would say do the regear based on your needs and future plans. It will be revving a little high on the freeway but the v6 makes most of its power up high anyway. You won't notice the extra weight from bumpers as much either. Plus your drivetrain will be ready when you go to 35s (you know you want to).

Honestly a 4.30 gear would probably be perfect but I don't think anyone makes that for our runners. IIRC, some FJs had 4.10-4.11 gears so maybe you could swap those gears in.

At some point I want to make the jump to 33-34s and regear as well.

 

[montijo505]

I would say do the regear based on your needs and future plans. It will be revving a little high on the freeway but the v6 makes most of its power up high anyway. You won't notice the extra weight from bumpers as much either. Plus your drivetrain will be ready when you go to 35s (you know you want to).



Honestly a 4.30 gear would probably be perfect but I don't think anyone makes that for our runners. IIRC, some FJs had 4.10-4.11 gears so maybe you could swap those gears in.



At some point I want to make the jump to 33-34s and regear as well.

35's FTMFW lol, barely fit 33's as is, maybe with a plate bumper and a 1.25" BL I can pull it off!

 

[aha2988]

Thank you Aha, really good info. Hopefully superman will chime in on here! My rig seems ok like I said it's not a drastic power loss just seems like when I hit a steep slope on the road and such I end up having to gun it to not SLOW down lol. I would also like to add a full plate front bumper like yours in the future so I know I'll take another loss there cause of the weight. As far as lockers go I have no use for them, we don't have many trails that look like the ones you subject your rig to! Gas mileage I don't care about, I don't expect to drive around a lifted rig with MT's and get the mpg's of a Prius lol. In the end what I would like from a regear would be to gain back some power and have my rig run smoother, right now it seems like it searches gears a lot just driving around, definitely wasn't like that before.

Regearing definitley stopped the gears from "hunting" on the highway.. that was my biggest pain after lift and tires.. I'd just ask chase at ECGS what gear ratios are available as nitro may have more options for our carriers available now.. Chase will definitley give you some sound advice.

 

[MarkinWMich]

Regear questions

My low end/off idle throttle response is down and there is a subtle vibration when accelerating from 0-25mph. I have a mild lift and 265/70R17s, V6, 4WD, 130,000 on the odometer.

I am thinking I may benefit from new gearing. It sounds like moving to the 4.10s may be the right thing to do for my daily driver.

Questions:

When changing the gear ratio, do you have to do the front and rear differentials together?

Any drivability issues due to computer calibration, either for the engine or the transmission?

Apologies, I know very little about Toyotas, my Ford's have required recalibrations to the ECM with any mods like this.

 

[superman3043]

I really don't know how much additional I can add to the conversation but I'll try and clarify a few things.

First there is actually a 4th gen with a different gear ratio than 3.73. The 03 & 04 V6 models actually came with a 4 speed A340 transmissision and not the 5 speed A750 transmission that was was geared with a 3.91 final drive ratio. That also happens to be the final drive ratio for 6sp MT FJC's as well.

When I calculated 4.10-4.11 gear ratio for 33's it was specifically to get back to factory settings (corrected speedometer), not purpose oriented like towing or rock crawling.

From what I've read on these forums, it seems that 33's and up have a much more drastic effect on V6's than they do on V8's. I've not had any issues with my V8 and factory gears. Having driven multiple 2UZ powered vehicles as well as many 1GR powered vehicles, I believe it. I'm not interested in starting a V8 vs V6 debate, it's just what I've experienced. If I had a V6, I'd probably be looking to re-gear. If your truck is hunting for gears while doing normal driving, a re-gear will solve that. Actually from everything the OP says, a re-gear is exactly what you need. 4.56's should be plenty sufficient for what you're looking for, since the results of doing anything less (even if you could find the R&P sets) would be minuscule.

For you V6's (selectable 4WD) guys, you could probably get away without re-gearing the front at the same time if you never used 4WD... If you had to. I wouldn't recommend it.

Only "drive-ability" issues that I can see is that the speedometer/odometer/trip computer etc. will be a little off. If you have a means to re-calibrate for tire size and gear ratio, then by all means, you should do it. But I don't see anything that would be detrimental.

 

[MarkinWMich]

Re gearing and Engine Computer Calibration

So, it sounds like making small changes in the gearing to accommodate a larger tire...say going from a 3.73 to a 4.10 after moving up from a 30inch to a 32inch tire may achieve a factory like RPM on the road. As a result, the computer may not need any recalibrations in the fuel mapping, timing, etc.

However, let's say I wanted to use 4.30s or 4.56s? Now, with my Ford Mustang, the computer will sense the changes in engine load from the increased torque multiplication and may upset the fuel and timing maps...and will need to be dyno-tuned.

Toyotas may be a different animal...maybe they are smarter and will adjust itself over time. No experience with this.

I've enough experience with modding cars to know that these modern engine control systems can be finicky. Anyone with this kind of experience? I am now thinking 4.30s or 4.56s would be a lot of fun.

 

[superman3043]

So, it sounds like making small changes in the gearing to accommodate a larger tire...say going from a 3.73 to a 4.10 after moving up from a 30inch to a 32inch tire may achieve a factory like RPM on the road. As a result, the computer may not need any recalibrations in the fuel mapping, timing, etc.

However, let's say I wanted to use 4.30s or 4.56s? Now, with my Ford Mustang, the computer will sense the changes in engine load from the increased torque multiplication and may upset the fuel and timing maps...and will need to be dyno-tuned.

Toyotas may be a different animal...maybe they are smarter and will adjust itself over time. No experience with this.

I've enough experience with modding cars to know that these modern engine control systems can be finicky. Anyone with this kind of experience? I am now thinking 4.30s or 4.56s would be a lot of fun.

Well, actually I think it's the exact opposite. I think it's actually "dumber" not "smarter" and that's why you don't get in trouble. I know what you mean by having to re-tune for every little change. I have a lot of "tuner" friends that have to deal with that junk. These trucks use MAF not MAP, so yes, they are "learning" ECU's, but it's not smart enough to reconfigure your speedo from a tire size or gear ratio change. As far as I know it's totally blind to those changes.

Also I'm not sure if you're going to be able to find a 4:30 gear set. It's been a while since I've shopped them though. 4:56 & 4:88 seem to be the popular flavors.

 

[ebg18t]

The only options I could locate were the 4.56 & 4.88. ECGS suggested the 4.56's.

 

[MarkinWMich]

It sounds like if I decided to go with the 4.56s, then all I would need a different speedometer gear to achieve correct readings? I have the A750F ECT-5spd auto w/OD.

 

[montijo505]

I really don't know how much additional I can add to the conversation but I'll try and clarify a few things.



First there is actually a 4th gen with a different gear ratio than 3.73. The 03 & 04 V6 models actually came with a 4 speed A340 transmissision and not the 5 speed A750 transmission that was was geared with a 3.91 final drive ratio. That also happens to be the final drive ratio for 6sp MT FJC's as well.



When I calculated 4.10-4.11 gear ratio for 33's it was specifically to get back to factory settings (corrected speedometer), not purpose oriented like towing or rock crawling.



From what I've read on these forums, it seems that 33's and up have a much more drastic effect on V6's than they do on V8's. I've not had any issues with my V8 and factory gears. Having driven multiple 2UZ powered vehicles as well as many 1GR powered vehicles, I believe it. I'm not interested in starting a V8 vs V6 debate, it's just what I've experienced. If I had a V6, I'd probably be looking to re-gear. If your truck is hunting for gears while doing normal driving, a re-gear will solve that. Actually from everything the OP says, a re-gear is exactly what you need. 4.56's should be plenty sufficient for what you're looking for, since the results of doing anything less (even if you could find the R&P sets) would be minuscule.



For you V6's (selectable 4WD) guys, you could probably get away without re-gearing the front at the same time if you never used 4WD... If you had to. I wouldn't recommend it.



Only "drive-ability" issues that I can see is that the speedometer/odometer/trip computer etc. will be a little off. If you have a means to re-calibrate for tire size and gear ratio, then by all means, you should do it. But I don't see anything that would be detrimental.

Thanks, appreciate the input, I'm really new to all of this and the only reason I started doing research was because I was drooling over Aha's build and saw his regear!

The only options I could locate were the 4.56 & 4.88. ECGS suggested the 4.56's.

Also the only sizes I found from ECGS, hopefully I can do this sooner than later, will definitely be going 4.56's

 

[MarkinWMich]

More regear questions

My '06 came with the "GKAGKA" rear end (3.73s, Torsen LSD w/locking feature).
I can find multiple sources for rear end gears (3.73, 4.11, 4.30, 4.56, 4.88), however the front gears are difficult to source out. Yukon Gear makes a 4.88, 29-spline, regular ($263) and thick ($388). Toyota, of course, has the OEM 3.73 for a whopping $800+.

Any other sources for these 4th gen 4Runners? I am not sure if I would take the leap to the 4.88s in my daily driver simply to match the front and rear gears.

Just so I am clear, it would appear that my vehicle has 30-spline axles and 29-spline ring & pinion?

 

[AARONR]

gears

I can get gears for you. Generally the aftermarket companies will only provide ratios that are not offered from the factory.