1995 4Runner sputtering

[T4R4CO]

I'll try to be brief, but there is some background to this problem. The car wasn't really running that bad, maybe a little weaker than the normal weak 3.0 except for a couple of exhaust leaks. I pulled the engine to fix some leaks (pan, front and rear crank seals) and install a clutch and hydraulic cylinders. Because of the oil I replace the timing belt; I did turn the engine a couple of times to make sure the marks were lined up.
The issue now is that it is a little hard to start, cranks too much, but is harder to keep running when it is cold. It will only idle at about 4-500 rpm's unless you keep the throttle open and run it at about 1500 rpm's. After a few minutes, when it begins to warm up it will idle at 8-900 but there is a slight sputtering, it stumbles when you try to accelerate, which increases the more you drive it. I have backed out the idle adjustment on the throttle body a couple of turns to get it to idle. After driving a mile or two it will hardly pull a hill (20-30 mph in 1st and 2nd).
I have checked the fuel pressure (40 psi) and it holds pressure after it is shut off. I've checked to see that the vacuum lines are in the right place. Saturday, I change the spark plug wires. The plugs, cap and rotor only have about 30-40K miles in them.
My first question is (probably elementary), but it seems odd to me. Maybe it shouldn't. When I adjusted the timing the adjustment bolt is now at the very bottom of the slot of the distributor. Previously, it was in the middle. Is that enough that I should pull the distributor and reset it?
Any other suggestion from those who are more familiar with this particular engine are very welcome and appreciated.

 

[91'4bee]

Did you use a timing light to set the base timing?

 

[T4R4CO]

Yes, I did. I jumped the TE1 and E1 terminals and set the idle at 900 rpm.

 

[91'4bee]

Yes, I did.

I know you said it but the only thing I can think of is a vacuum line inst connected. Other than that, I have never heard of taking the distributor out and resetting it but its worth a shot.

What you could do is mess with the timing and seeing if it helps... just to see if your on the right track. Also Just establishing a base line...you jumped the terminals (t-e1 I believe) when you set the base timing?

 

[91'4bee]

I know you said it but the only thing I can think of is a vacuum line inst connected. Other than that, I have never heard of taking the distributor out and resetting it but its worth a shot.

What you could do is mess with the timing and seeing if it helps... just to see if your on the right track. Also Just establishing a base line...you jumped the terminals (t-e1 I believe) when you set the base timing?

ooops I didn't read all the way, gotta stop drinking and posting...ok so timing is at 10* then...So I can only think of vacuum leak or spark plug/wire issue.

 

[T4R4CO]

I guess I forgot to mention that I put new NGK wires on last Saturday. The resistance on the old ones seemed bad, but it didn't change anything. I guess its time to get after the elusive vacuum leak.
Thanks for the help.

After checking the distributor this morning there is nothing wrong there. Timing marks and #1 terminal on the distributor line up. There is another part of this puzzle that I failed to mention last night. When it is cold it will hardly idle, as I mentioned earlier (4-500 rpms), but when the engine gets to operating temperature it speeds up to 1100 rpm for about 20 seconds, then it will drop for a second to 900, back up to 1100, down to 800, then down to 500 for a few seconds, then back up to 1100 for another 15 - 20 seconds. If you try to drive it the above scenario takes place.

I checked with a hose for vacuum leaks and so far can't hear anything.

Again, I appreciate any suggestions.

 

[91'4bee]

When it is cold it will hardly idle, as I mentioned earlier (4-500 rpms), but when the engine gets to operating temperature it speeds up to 1100 rpm for about 20 seconds, then it will drop for a second to 900, back up to 1100, down to 800, then down to 500 for a few seconds, then back up to 1100 for another 15 - 20 seconds. If you try to drive it the above scenario takes place.

I checked with a hose for vacuum leaks and so far can't hear anything.

Again, I appreciate any suggestions.

Ok I have seen this before(not on my truck) it either has something to do with fuel or...coolant(you know where that leads and I am not gonna say it probably because it isn't true but you never know).

Another thing is maybe cold start injector?

Replace fuel filter and then pressure test the fuel system. If all that fuel stuff is good do a compression check on the cylinders.

Remember when you have problems with engines go with the basics...Air, spark or fuel and go through a mental checklist to diagnose(you have done most of the spark part). If nothing go with what I said before.

Good luck

 

[T4R4CO]

Okay, for a little update, but first I appreciate the suggestions.
The fuel pressure is good, about 44 psi and holds the pressure after shutting of the engine. I went ahead and replaced the spark plugs. The gap on the NGK's was almost to .45 and the number 5 had black carbon, but ironically that cylinder has the best compression (160). So now with new plugs and wires and re-timed, it start good and idles okay (also readjusted the idle speed). There is a little roughness in the idle, but the main problem is still under a load. It's driveable now, not like my original post. It just has a definite miss under a load.
So I checked the coil resistance. Between the two primary posts the resistance is about .4, but between the primary and secondary I don't get any response. If that is accurate how does it run at all. In all of my previous experience, a coil either works or it doesn't. I know an easy check is to just buy a new coil, but I'm really getting tired, and financially stressed by throwing money at guesses.
Anybody want to educate me on this coil issue, I'm all ears (eyes?).
Thanks

 

[91'4bee]

It just has a definite miss under a load.
So I checked the coil resistance. Between the two primary posts the resistance is about .4, but between the primary and secondary I don't get any response. If that is accurate how does it run at all. In all of my previous experience, a coil either works or it doesn't. I know an easy check is to just buy a new coil, but I'm really getting tired, and financially stressed by throwing money at guesses.
Anybody want to educate me on this coil issue, I'm all ears (eyes?).
Thanks

I defiantly agree with you on the coil. I was always told it either works or it doesnt too. The only other option(besides new coil) is to make sure that there is no codes stored in the ecu. It just hit me that the distributor it self could be bad so test it. Also test that the TPS is in spec but even when bad it shouldn't cause misfiring so who knows. But test it all before you buy new!

I do feel you with the throwing money at problems with cars and not seeing results, I always get mad when that happens :toilet:

Take luck...(reference?...:nono

 

[T4R4CO]

I did a continuity test on the distributor last night using the FSM found on this site. I have proper continuity between G & G1; G & G2, but between G & NE I get nothing. Not knowing where those wires go, etc., why do I have enough spark for it to run?

 

[mikesmith140]

mine too

I have an '86 4R with a 22RE and am having the same problem. Idles mostly fine with the occasional miss, but under a load in the 2000's RPM range it seems like it's missing on one cylinder. Once I get it above about 3000 RPM is smooths out.

What I did:
- new spark plugs
- new spark plug wires
- new rotor
- new distributer cap
- cleaned the throttle body (didn't take it off)
- cleaned the MAF
- exchanged the MAF with another 22RE that wasn't having problems
- installed a new fuel filter
- checked the throttle position sensor (TPS)
- checked the timing
- searched for a vacuum leak in the hoses
- searched for a vacuum leak in the seals around the fuel/air intake manifold

ARGH!! Nothing worked : (

I took it to a auto repair shop that I trust and works on these older vehicles. They've had it for 4 days and cannot find the issue either.

I'll let ya know what they find ... assuming they find the issue : /

Mike

 

[91'4bee]

I did a continuity test on the distributor last night using the FSM found on this site. I have proper continuity between G & G1; G & G2, but between G & NE I get nothing. Not knowing where those wires go, etc., why do I have enough spark for it to run?

Not to sure I will have to read up on that... but you could go to a junk yard and find a distributor and test it(before you pay for it). If its good just throw it on and reset everything.

 

[KILLINTIME]

I have an '86 4R with a 22RE and am having the same problem. Idles mostly fine with the occasional miss, but under a load in the 2000's RPM range it seems like it's missing on one cylinder. Once I get it above about 3000 RPM is smooths out.

What I did:
- new spark plugs
- new spark plug wires
- new rotor
- new distributer cap
- cleaned the throttle body (didn't take it off)
- cleaned the MAF
- exchanged the MAF with another 22RE that wasn't having problems
- installed a new fuel filter
- checked the throttle position sensor (TPS)
- checked the timing
- searched for a vacuum leak in the hoses
- searched for a vacuum leak in the seals around the fuel/air intake manifold

ARGH!! Nothing worked : (

I took it to a auto repair shop that I trust and works on these older vehicles. They've had it for 4 days and cannot find the issue either.

I'll let ya know what they find ... assuming they find the issue : /

Mike

For what its worth, try a distributor, if you can get your hands on a known good, used one. I had a 96 Taco & had the same issues, I replaced about everything that you have, had numerous garages look at it. It would start up run & idle fine but when it would get in the 2000-2500 rpm range it would begin to miss pop sputter, major PITA. After spending too much time & money, on the parts that didn't fix it, I bought a used distributor from a local junk yard & solved the issues. Come to find out it was the pick-up inside the dist. breaking down. Hope it helps.

 

[mikesmith140]

Problem solved

It turned out to be the #2 fuel injector. The electronic signal was nearly non-existent in this one, while the others were reading good. After replacing the #2 fuel injector, not only did it start running smoothly, it starts normally now. Prior to replacing the injector, I would have to pump the gas pedal a couple of times and then push it about 1/2 inch or so to get it to fire up when it was cold. Now all I do is turn the key and keep my foot off the gas pedal : )