2000 Transmission or Torque Converter Problems

[lockedlex]

Hi, have a 2000, 4WD V6, 2nd Gen SC put in about 195k miles. Now it's at 218k miles.

Truck's been running flawlessly over the years. About 1,500 miles ago, I noticed:

1. A whine when putting my trans in Gear (123 or R), but the whine goes away in P or N.
2. It's present in gear going up to 50ish, then the road/engine noise I guess cancels it out.
3. Transmission shifts exactly as it did 14 years ago, there is NO slipping or other weird noises
4. I did change the filter and fluid and ensured it was at the correct level at the correct temp with the engine running and the car in Park.
5. When the fluid warms up, the whine is significantly reduced at idle in gear (but yet again, no whine when in Park/N). However, the whine sound is obvious again as you accelerate and drive up to 50ish.
6. The whine noise does change pitch with engine speed and during shifts, but otherwise remains.
7. When I changed the trans fluid and filter, the magnets looked pretty normal, there was some slight metallic glitter in the corner of the pan however.

If I didn't have an SC, I would actually say it did sound like an SC whine. However, if in Neutral or Park and I up the revs, there's no whine (so it's not the SC).

I did see in a post that it could be the TC:

If your transmission makes noise when you put it in gear and that noise goes away when you put it back in park or neutral that is your converter coming apart.

Any thoughts on what the problem is? I don't mind changing out the TC and even flexplate if needed. I'd hate to replace the trans if it's not needed, but I intend to keep the truck forever, so I don't mind the investment and piece of mind. Most importantly, I need to be sure it doesn't break down on a trip, so I'm willing to change whatever is needed for that piece of mind.

 

[lockedlex]

Here are the pan pics, with the only noticeable shavings to speak of. Magnets were barely coated with particles. The pan and filter were otherwise untouched since new. Trans fluid looked great and smelled normal.

 

[jgue467]

The TC's bearings tend to wear first causing the whine as you described - may last another year or two - depending on pocketbook or skills you could replace just that or whole thing new or used - Luck deciding

 

[lockedlex]

The TC's bearings tend to wear first causing the whine as you described - may last another year or two - depending on pocketbook or skills you could replace just that or whole thing new or used - Luck deciding

Interesting, didn't know that bearing wear was a thing for the TC.

I'm debating between replacing it with a new Toyota TC, for about 1k. I can do the labor myself. Or using an aftermarket one (but with all that work, it might not be worth the few hundred saved). I guess I can inspect the flexplate too to see if it needs replacement.

I'd just hate to go through all that trouble and find out whine is still there.

How difficult would it be to change the trans oil pump too while I'm in there?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I'd just hate to go through all that trouble and find out whine is still there.
?

Have you eliminated the power steering pump as a source of the noise?

If you replace the TC replace the bushing and seal as well.

I don’t remember hearing of TC failures……with out Gen 4Runners


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[lockedlex]

Have you eliminated the power steering pump as a source of the noise?

If you replace the TC replace the bushing and seal as well.

I don’t remember hearing of TC failures……with out Gen 4Runners


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I'll double check, but it'd be weird that it's perfectly normal in P/N but in Gear the whine is there, until it's warmed up, then the whine substantially reduces, until I drive (up to about 50mph), then you can hear it.

You'd think if it were the pump, it wouldn't be affected by whatever gear it's in?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I'll double check, but it'd be weird that it's perfectly normal in P/N but in Gear the whine is there, until it's warmed up, then the whine substantially reduces, until I drive (up to about 50mph), then you can hear it.

You'd think if it were the pump, it wouldn't be affected by whatever gear it's in?

No, I forgot you said it doesn’t make the noise in P/N.

I hate to mention this…but[emoji12] did you think of a tranny flush additive and then drop the pan and do the filter over again?

Pump could be going bad or the pressure regulator…….but at your milage and you are willing to replace the pump and TC you may as well do clutch’s and bands and if the pressure regulator is resleavable or replaceable do that too……


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[lockedlex]

No, I forgot you said it doesn’t make the noise in P/N.

I hate to mention this…but[emoji12] did you think of a tranny flush additive and then drop the pan and do the filter over again?

Pump could be going bad or the pressure regulator…….but at your milage and you are willing to replace the pump and TC you may as well do clutch’s and bands and if the pressure regulator is resleavable or replaceable do that too……


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I'd be down to just buy a rebuilt tranny as well at that point. In fact, was considering it (but just have to source one). That way one and done.

BUT, I also hate to replace things that aren't broken or might not break. If shifting, etc is literally the exact same as it was 14 years ago, I wonder if it could be the tranny itself? If the sound is just from the TC, I'd be OK with only replacing that.

The problem is, is it the TC to begin with. It'd be a lot of work to find out that it's not that.

EDIT: Also, I wonder if the additive would do anything for the whining noise and I'd rather just fix it than patch it.

 

[AuSeeker]

Keep in mind if you get a rebuilt transmission, it will not include a new torque converter, so you will still need to buy one, so if it were me and I was doing the labor myself I'd get the new torque converter first and if it solved the issues your good to go, if not then get the rebuilt transmission.

 

[Endlessblockades]

Hi, have a 2000, 4WD V6, 2nd Gen SC put in about 195k miles. Now it's at 218k miles.

Truck's been running flawlessly over the years. About 1,500 miles ago, I noticed:

1. A whine when putting my trans in Gear (123 or R), but the whine goes away in P or N.
2. It's present in gear going up to 50ish, then the road/engine noise I guess cancels it out.
3. Transmission shifts exactly as it did 14 years ago, there is NO slipping or other weird noises
4. I did change the filter and fluid and ensured it was at the correct level at the correct temp with the engine running and the car in Park.
5. When the fluid warms up, the whine is significantly reduced at idle in gear (but yet again, no whine when in Park/N). However, the whine sound is obvious again as you accelerate and drive up to 50ish.
6. The whine noise does change pitch with engine speed and during shifts, but otherwise remains.
7. When I changed the trans fluid and filter, the magnets looked pretty normal, there was some slight metallic glitter in the corner of the pan however.

If I didn't have an SC, I would actually say it did sound like an SC whine. However, if in Neutral or Park and I up the revs, there's no whine (so it's not the SC).

I did see in a post that it could be the TC:

If your transmission makes noise when you put it in gear and that noise goes away when you put it back in park or neutral that is your converter coming apart.

Any thoughts on what the problem is? I don't mind changing out the TC and even flexplate if needed. I'd hate to replace the trans if it's not needed, but I intend to keep the truck forever, so I don't mind the investment and piece of mind. Most importantly, I need to be sure it doesn't break down on a trip, so I'm willing to change whatever is needed for that piece of mind.

Can't offer any technical advice but just wanted to add I've had the same symptoms with whine/growl for nearly 2 years and 20k+ miles. It may not be an emergency - it hasn't been in my case, knock on wood. I have a short clip of the sound on YT if you want to compare. Haven't done the pan filter but been running Magnefines for a few years. Tranny snake-oil treatment had no effect. I will likely be doing a salvage yard AT swap this winter.


2000 T4R AT Failing? soundclip - YouTube

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I'd be down to just buy a rebuilt tranny as well at that point. In fact, was considering it (but just have to source one). That way one and done.

BUT, I also hate to replace things that aren't broken or might not break. If shifting, etc is literally the exact same as it was 14 years ago, I wonder if it could be the tranny itself? If the sound is just from the TC, I'd be OK with only replacing that.

The problem is, is it the TC to begin with. It'd be a lot of work to find out that it's not that.

EDIT: Also, I wonder if the additive would do anything for the whining noise and I'd rather just fix it than patch it.

If you replace the TC you need to also should replace the bushing and seal.


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[lockedlex]

Keep in mind if you get a rebuilt transmission, it will not include a new torque converter, so you will still need to buy one, so if it were me and I was doing the labor myself I'd get the new torque converter first and if it solved the issues your good to go, if not then get the rebuilt transmission.

OK, that's good to know and a valid point. The TC would be in for all of a min to determine if the noise goes away. If it does, then I'm good. If it's still there, I turn the car off, then source a rebult trans and just use the new TC.

Not a bad idea!

I don't relish the idea of having to do the job twice, but since it shifts perfectly right now, it might be overkill and unnecessary to do the trans too. I'll have to think about it.

I've been looking at Timmy's vids on how he replaced the trans and it seems doable, just a lot of contortions to get it out and I'd need a trans jack. I probably wouldn't need to get it out from under the truck though, I think I'd just need to be able to slide it back a foot or two so I can swap the TC and maybe Flexplate (if needed).

 

[AuSeeker]

OK, that's good to know and a valid point. The TC would be in for all of a min to determine if the noise goes away. If it does, then I'm good. If it's still there, I turn the car off, then source a rebult trans and just use the new TC.

Not a bad idea!

I don't relish the idea of having to do the job twice, but since it shifts perfectly right now, it might be overkill and unnecessary to do the trans too. I'll have to think about it.

I've been looking at Timmy's vids on how he replaced the trans and it seems doable, just a lot of contortions to get it out and I'd need a trans jack. I probably wouldn't need to get it out from under the truck though, I think I'd just need to be able to slide it back a foot or two so I can swap the TC and maybe Flexplate (if needed).

For just R&R the torque converter I wouldn't take the transmission out from under the vehicle, as you say just roll it out of the way on the jack, just make sure you strap it securely to the jack, you only need a few inches but more would make it easier.

 

[lockedlex]

For just R&R the torque converter I wouldn't take the transmission out from under the vehicle, as you say just roll it out of the way on the jack, just make sure you strap it securely to the jack, you only need a few inches but more would make it easier.

Great, thanks for confirming AuS! I'll probably pick up a HF trans jack that Timmy used.

I'm debating to remove the transfer case first though, just to keep the whole thing easier to balance on the trans jack, however, if I'm not trying to remove the trans from the vehicle, I wonder if it'd be possible to keep attached to the trans, then slide the whole thing back while strapped to the jack.

My worry is if I remove the TC, the whole thing might tip back or something?

Seems like the Transfer Case would just be some bolts, vacuum line, electrical connectors?

 

[AuSeeker]

Great, thanks for confirming AuS! I'll probably pick up a HF trans jack that Timmy used.

I'm debating to remove the transfer case first though, just to keep the whole thing easier to balance on the trans jack, however, if I'm not trying to remove the trans from the vehicle, I wonder if it'd be possible to keep attached to the trans, then slide the whole thing back while strapped to the jack.

My worry is if I remove the TC, the whole thing might tip back or something?

Seems like the Transfer Case would just be some bolts, vacuum line, electrical connectors?

You WILL need to support the back of the engine, otherwise the back of the engine will drop down when removing the transmission.

The transfer case you need to check it out and do what's best, it's hard for me to say what would be possible without seeing it in person, you'll have to make that call from under the truck.

 

[lockedlex]

You WILL need to support the back of the engine, otherwise the back of the engine will drop down when removing the transmission.

The transfer case you need to check it out and do what's best, it's hard for me to say what would be possible without seeing it in person, you'll have to make that call from under the truck.

Ah OK, I hadn't fully viewed Timmy's all 3 vids for the transmission removal, but that's also good to know, lol. I'll support the back of the engine with a jack while doing this.

EDIT: I'll review the vids this week and see if anything else stands out. I appreciate it!

 

[lockedlex]

Just a quick update, I've placed about 4,000 miles on the truck and it's been about a year since I noticed that whine (at 4k/yr you can imagine I don't drive it much. I've been making it a point to do some overlanding and camping to rack some miles on it).

I replaced the fluid and filter when it it started making the whine a year ago (no debris or issues). I've noticed in the last ~1000 miles the whine is pretty much gone. And it's no longer making any noticeable whine in R or D at idle. There is a slight "something" when accelerating up to about 30 mph, but it's like 1/20th the loudness of the original whine. Barely noticeable. (and that could be the supercharger). I'll keep observing it, but it was strange how it appeared kind of out of nowhere, then is now slowly going away.

Also, trans feels exactly the same in every way as it did when I bought it, both now and when the whine first appeared.

PS-Finally got around to building a cargo shelf from scratch, really motivated me to actually go camping, but boy does it add weight, lol.

 

[jgue467]

I absolutely hope it does clear things up forever.

I too did a full fluid exchange and new filter - and the whine did decrease substantially after a month or so and I too would only hear some minor whine on accelerations. Now mine had a lot of tiny metal debris so we know something was wearing fast. I should have changed fluids sooner - waited too long - like 100K - my very bad.

This went on for about 2+ years then it began to whine only when I used OD off (climbing smallish hills) until one day it got somewhat loud and I began to feel/hear what sounded like marbles for a few seconds at a time and then would go away - trans worked as normal all this time. The marble sound came more and more often and once or twice would even shut the engine down at stoplights so I decided to drive it to a nearby friends house to park it.

6 months later a rebuilt arrived from Yota1 out of Riverbank Cali and it has been Heaven ever since.

 

[lockedlex]

I think your OD/issues may have been related to the planetary gear problem on the 01-02:

there are more instances of failure of the planetary gear of the 01/02 transmissions. they are not the same trans that was used in 99/00 - which do not have as high of a failure rate. the electronic controls are different along with the valve body and some other internals IIRC.

*****
it happened to me in my old 01 4r at 113K. as far as im concerned it is a problem.

the difference is that they used a smaller thrust washer or something that allows movement. so as it wears down, it eventually lets go, causing the planetary to give and an implosion of metal occurs

*****
Yes I have read too that the planetary disk is weaker in the 01&02 4WD trans (Supposedly there is a difference between the 4WD and 2WD trans, I haven't asked around to confirm this yet.)
My Stepfather has a 2002 Sports Edition 4Runner 4WD, at 124K the planetary disc for the Overdrive failed, leaving him and my mother stranded 200+ miles from home :-D
Toyota has not announced this as a recall problem since there only seems to be a limited amount of 4Runners.
Some people have been lucky and there transmissions have lasted just as long as any other year, so its really up in the air.

I'll just plan to keep an eye (or really ear) on it. Your symptoms are helpful so I know what to look for just in case. It's just weird that it happened so quickly, the pan and magnets were pretty much pristine and the fluid looked great.

It did take 3000 miles of driving (which was about 2-3 road trips) for the whine to pretty much disappear. At first I thought it my imagination, but as I started looking out for it, I realized it was all but gone. And now it's been 2k+ miles and not noticeable really. Before you couldn't really talk at Idle to 40 mph cause that whine would be in the background.

Now it's silent at idle and almost not present (I'd say tbh, that no one else but me would notice it, while before it was quite noticeable) going up to 40, past 40 you don't hear anything. Going into/out of OD doesn't make a difference, still quiet.

With the age of these and the fact I plan to keep it forever though, I thought about sourcing a rebuilt trans and new TC and just storing it. But that's maybe my OCD tripping.

 

[Hungryhawk]

Before taking it all apart would you consider a premium lube (like Royal Purple) in the transfer case (its small volume)?and if no noise improvement then do the same for tranny/torque converter. Or perhaps an additive to the tranny/torque converter?
Amsoil makes great claims for their lubes.
A member solved Torque converter shudder with the additive Lube Guard.
My 2 cents