2001 SR5 4WD - Is the transmission dead?

[2001fr]

Hi All

My 2001 SR5 4WD (80,000 miles) started showing the following symptoms: High pitched whining noise when in Drive (forward or reverse) (this sound does not occur in Park or Neutral). Also some clunking noise when Reverse is engaged from Park. Also note for about six months, truck would not move right after pressing the gas when Reverse was engaged (about a second delay before vehicle started moving).

Took it to the dealer who services the vehicle and the outcome: Internal transmission problem, recommend replacing with factory rebuilt transmission. Cost $4,000.

Was not really expecting to spend such serious $s so early on a Toyota. So still trying to absorb the news.

Questions/recommendations requested:

- Was my confidence on Toyota quality misplaced ? ;-)
- Anyone else seen similar symptoms and what was the outcome?
- the reason quoted to replace the transmission was fixing it would cost about the same and not assure as good results. Should fixing it be pursued?
- Any suggestions for a reliable independent shop in Metro Nothwest Boston?
- The truck is due other repairs (brakes - still original, timing belt, AC etc). So I am starting to wonder how much money to sink). Too bad I just missed the cash for clunkers program.....

Thanks in advance for your help !!

 

[JohnsD90]

Hi All

My 2001 SR5 4WD (80,000 miles) started showing the following symptoms: High pitched whining noise when in Drive (forward or reverse) (this sound does not occur in Park or Neutral). Also some clunking noise when Reverse is engaged from Park. Also note for about six months, truck would not move right after pressing the gas when Reverse was engaged (about a second delay before vehicle started moving).

Took it to the dealer who services the vehicle and the outcome: Internal transmission problem, recommend replacing with factory rebuilt transmission. Cost $4,000.

Was not really expecting to spend such serious $s so early on a Toyota. So still trying to absorb the news.

Questions/recommendations requested:

- Was my confidence on Toyota quality misplaced ? ;-)
- Anyone else seen similar symptoms and what was the outcome?
- the reason quoted to replace the transmission was fixing it would cost about the same and not assure as good results. Should fixing it be pursued?
- Any suggestions for a reliable independent shop in Metro Nothwest Boston?
- The truck is due other repairs (brakes - still original, timing belt, AC etc). So I am starting to wonder how much money to sink). Too bad I just missed the cash for clunkers program.....

Thanks in advance for your help !!

take it to an independent shop, and see if its the 3rd memeber which is a common issue.

 

[glenyoshida]

$4000 seems really high for a rebuilt transmission. I'd suggest calling around to places that specialize in rebuilding transmissions and get another opinion. You can get a used transmission with under 50k on it for roughly $1000. So it's hard to justify that much cost in labor.

I'm not trying to be silly but have you checked your transmission oil lately? What's the color and level like? Is is nice and red or dark and black. Is it milky. Did they let you know if they found brass or steel filings in the transmission? How do they know it's the transmission?

You might try Cartalk.com and go to the mechanics files for a recommendation of another shop to take it to. They have a pretty good database of mechanics that people rate and review. I wouldn't just give in to the dealer yet for $4000 bucks it's well worth to check around.

http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/find.html

Does the whining sound continue if you are rolling and in neutral? How about if you are rolling in a turn?

 

[pat161]

If you trust the dealer and feel your tranny is shot, to be honest $4k is not unreasonable, not saying I would pay that, but for a dealer sounds about right. You figure Jasper sells these trannies for $2380, so the dealer probably charges a little more that that regardless where they get them, and then they are going to charge a good 10-12 hours labor if not more, at $100 an hour it adds up quick. It does seem that 01 and 02 4Runners are experiencing a higher number of tranny failures than 96-00 automatics, and it seems to be the O/D gear that's the weak point. Is your tranny already out and apart? If not, or if they reinstall it and you go elsewhere try to engage 4wd and see what happens. My 02 had an issue just a week or so ago, I put it in gear and it just revved, every gear including park was neutral and it would grind going from R to P if the truck was running. I assumed my tranny was shot, brought it to a friends shop and when he tried 4wd wouldn't you know it drove fine, so in my case it was the transfer case not the tranny. Just another thing to check before dumping 4k.

 

[2001fr]

Thanks for the suggestion on the 3rd member - will pursue this.

 

[2001fr]

Thanks a lot for the quick reply and link to CarTalk - been looking there yesterday.

I'm not trying to be silly but have you checked your transmission oil lately? What's the color and level like? Is is nice and red or dark and black. Is it milky. Did they let you know if they found brass or steel filings in the transmission? How do they know it's the transmission?

Honestly - I should tell you that I have not checked the transmission fluid (only bothered with other fluids like engine, brake etc). I take it every 6 months to the dealer and do the scheduled services and make sure that all of the fluids are part of the items covered (the dealer menu has them replace at half the recommended interval - which I grugdingly accepted as cost of doing biz)

AFIK - they did not take apart the transmission - the diagnosis was performed by examining the symptoms.

I will examine the fluid once I get the car back today.

Does the whining sound continue if you are rolling and in neutral? How about if you are rolling in a turn?

While I have not tried the exact sequence, what I can tell you is that while driving at a speed, if I let go of the gas and roll (while still in Drive), the whining noise goes away. So basically whining noise occurs when engine is pushing the car and transmission is engaged in Drive.

 

[2001fr]

If you trust the dealer and feel your tranny is shot, to be honest $4k is not unreasonable, not saying I would pay that, but for a dealer sounds about right. You figure Jasper sells these trannies for $2380, so the dealer probably charges a little more that that regardless where they get them, and then they are going to charge a good 10-12 hours labor if not more, at $100 an hour it adds up quick. It does seem that 01 and 02 4Runners are experiencing a higher number of tranny failures than 96-00 automatics, and it seems to be the O/D gear that's the weak point. Is your tranny already out and apart? If not, or if they reinstall it and you go elsewhere try to engage 4wd and see what happens. My 02 had an issue just a week or so ago, I put it in gear and it just revved, every gear including park was neutral and it would grind going from R to P if the truck was running. I assumed my tranny was shot, brought it to a friends shop and when he tried 4wd wouldn't you know it drove fine, so in my case it was the transfer case not the tranny. Just another thing to check before dumping 4k.

Thanks for your comments. Not sure I trust the dealer anymore (at least on whether due diligence was done before the diagnosis). But I agree cost to replace transmission is OK.

As mentioned in previous reply - they performed the diagnosis w/o pullout out the transmission, so I am getting the car back today and will try engaging the 4WD and see how that goes.

 

[wes smith]

have you done any towing or hard driving in the vehicle- this can lead to premature trans falure. i towed a 3 ton trailer about 200 miles and i had to do a full trans replace. at 98k, my local shop pulled the oil pan off and the clutches looked like they had ben in a blender. i later found out the towing capacity was only 2.5 tons on my vehicle. did some damage to my towing hitch too:dammit::dammit:


excesive heat can also be brutal on the transmission. those suckers heat up like no other. consider a aux trany cooler what ever you do(trd has a direct bolt on for under 200).


toyotas are good cars, but like any machene, it has limitations.

 

[2001fr]

Updates after a visit to independent shop

Thanks again to all for your suggestions.

Got the truck back from the dealership to take another opinion. Observations/feedback to questions:

1) Whether heavy towing was performed: No, never towed anything since I got the truck new.

2) Transmission fluid color: Was not milky or anything like that. But was not clear, very dark and with metal filings. (Dealership was supposed to have changed this 6 months back, so now I am not sure about whether they actually performed it)

3) Whether the problem goes away if I engage 4WD - no change in behaviour.

I took the truck to an independent shop with good rating from cartalk site. He came up with the same results - need new transmission. Same price as dealership ($4k) for rebuilt transmission (3yr warranty) or $2.5K for use transmission of another 4Runner. He also noticed that the truck struggles to move when 4WD is engaged (I now see what he means) - which could point to possible transfer case issues also.

PS - where will find used transmissions for $1K? I could not find any sources? (labor is ~500$s)

He asked if I had driven with mis-matched tires? I had driven with the spare tire for a couple of weeks (or more?) - He thinks that may have something to do with putting too much stress on the transfer case/transmission.

Since the truck has some other items due (timing belt, brakes), I am probably looking at about $5K at min or more like $6-7K (for rebuilt transmission) worth of repairs.

I am almost coming to the conclusion that I should trade this truck in for whatever money I can get and move on. Very sad to have to take this decision, but sinking this much money seems not the way to go?

Thanks again for your support and feedback.

 

[glenyoshida]

PS - where will find used transmissions for $1K? I could not find any sources? (labor is ~500$s)

I got a Jap take out motor from this place earlier this year

www.engineworldusa.com

It was an H22 (VTEC) for a 1999 Honda Prelude with less than 50k mi on it. It was the a long block and I got it for $900 shipped to my mechanic. I've been running it hard and have no probs.

A used transmission from them would be about $950 - $1000 Shipped, to Mass. $750 for the transmission and $170 - $220 for the shipping. There are places on the east coast that do take outs as well but this is the only one I've ever dealt with.

I will say that you need to know a good mechanic and a one willing to do the work. The guy I used was so freaking good I would have written home about it had my folks been around. He's one in a million for sure.

Since the truck has some other items due (timing belt, brakes), I am probably looking at about $5K at min or more like $6-7K (for rebuilt transmission) worth of repairs.
I am almost coming to the conclusion that I should trade this truck in for whatever money I can get and move on. Very sad to have to take this decision, but sinking this much money seems not the way to go?
Thanks again for your support and feedback.

Mannn that is so much $$ How much do you think you'll get if you trade it in? I could be wrong but it just seems like the prices are waaay to high. I think $1000 for a used transmission and another $1500 in labor seems more reasonable. Quotes to rebuilding the transmission on my 1994 4Runner were around $3000 with the places that I deem more expensive.

 

[pat161]

Well when he said mismatched tires he met have you been running tires that are completely different heights, that is the thing that really matters. You could run 3 33X10 tires and one 33X8 with no problems, the height would be the same. Your spare should be a full size, now the exception is if your truck came with the small 225/75 tires and you upgraded to a taller tire, your spare would then be mismatched unless you replaced that too. So is your spare the same size as all other tires, if so that theory makes no sense. I said it once, but you do what you want, call Jasper engines and get a price on a tranny, it was $2380 a week ago. Even at 2-300 shipping and 500 to install it would still be less than 4k, I want to know what rebuilt tranny they are selling you for $3500. I found rebuilt untis, not as good as a reman, for as little as $1770. As for where to find a cheap one, you are going to have to find that yourself, no one is going to spend their afternoon calling salvage yards for you. Grab the yellow pages or search for auto recyclers in your area and start calling them, as I said I found a transfer case out of an 01 w/ 94k for $350 last week, the same place had the tranny for like $800, and I'll even tell you it was at Greenleaf Auto Recyclers in Leominster MA. As far as trading it in make sure you bring the KY, what does any dealer want with a truck which is completely unfit to sell, they might offer you a grand or two, and rightly so.

 

[glenyoshida]

I'm with Pat161 the theory that a mismatched tire caused a transmission problem is a far reach. If he said you smoked your 3rd member sure, I'd buy that.

 

[410toy]

transmission price best I have found in a long time. there are so many on e-bay that still come with a warranty. 4k is a lot you could have a custome built tranny for that much that would be amazing.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/96-9...ies?hash=item2c50934c28&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-0...ies?hash=item3ca4b524c3&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

 

[2001fr]

Updates / Status

Here are the current updates

1) Finding lower cost transmissions: Thanks for the pointers (ps - I was asking for some quick pointers only !) I must have been searching wrong when I posted my previous updated.

Based on the keywords from the posts (greenleaf / auto recyclers etc), I was able to get a wider variety. Still best cost (online w/o calling around) was about $1,200. ~1,500 with long warranty. I am sure I can find lower cost after further phone calls. Probably concerned about getting one from ebay.

2) How I calculated cost to bring the truck up to snuff - as mentioned there are a few more things wrong:

New transmission $1,000 thru 3,300 - depending on where purchased.
Labor, tax etc $ 650

Timing Belt/Pump $ 600
Brake related $ 400 thru 800 (no work done on brakes so far)
A/C $ 100 or up (not blowing cold)
Emission related $ 300 or range (check engine came on)
Transfer case $ 400 +? (based on the 4WD engaging issues)

So as you can see I am looking 3K thru 6K worth of repairs with most due right in the near future.

3) Spare tire: The spare tire was of the same rim/size as 4 (orignals). Only thing is the 1st time spare was used was when the originals were ready to be replaced. So the 3 other tires were worn. Guess I was ready to rationalize the issue with any theory. But if experts here think that's smoke - I would need to defer.

4) Trade: I would have normally agreed with the KY comment - in fact the stealerships are quite adpept with or w/o your own KY and whether trading a good vehicle or vehicle with issues. But I had to evaluate that option too.

Guess I lucked out: I got offered trade-in that was in the middle of KBB trade-in values (in between Rough to excellent) - which I thought was a fantastic offer and a much lower risk option for me. So I chickened out and gone for the trade.

I also assumed my issue was a one-off and still believe in Toyota - so we will have a new Toyota SUV soon. Got a pretty good deal on the new truck too.

Thanks a lot to everyone for the help here. This was every educational for me and put me in a state where repairing the issue could also been an option if I had gone that route.

 

[pat161]

Well I am glad you feel you came out of this OK, a little saddened to see you got rid of the truck, but I understand your reasoning. So the dealership took it as is, and more importantly, what did you get?

 

[2001fr]

Well I am glad you feel you came out of this OK, a little saddened to see you got rid of the truck, but I understand your reasoning. So the dealership took it as is, and more importantly, what did you get?

Yeah - I believe I came out as best as I could have. Saddened myself as I had gotten fond of the truck and was planning to use it for at least 150K miles or more. Yes the dealer started lower quoting the condition and went up after the usual haggling. I will get a 2009 Highlander 4WD. Not quite the 4Runner, but should bring enough capability to deal with conditions I have to deal with.

Thanks again for the support folks - this forum has a wealth of information.

 

[maclean216]

Its your planetary overdrive gear. I would stop driving it immediately and take it to a shop that does local rebuilds. See if they think they can save it before you it is completely destroyed.

I have gone through this twice, the 01-02 4runner 4x4s are prone to this.

Also you can't just bolt up any A340F from a 3rd gen you need one that has multi-mode. Any 01-02 4runner 4wd will work and it is possible that one would work form a 99-00 4wd limited.

I ended up paying $3500 installed for my last one.

 

[pat161]

Its your planetary overdrive gear. I would stop driving it immediately and take it to a shop that does local rebuilds. See if they think they can save it before you it is completely destroyed.

I have gone through this twice, the 01-02 4runner 4x4s are prone to this.

Also you can't just bolt up any A340F from a 3rd gen you need one that has multi-mode. Any 01-02 4runner 4wd will work and it is possible that one would work form a 99-00 4wd limited.

I ended up paying $3500 installed for my last one.

Well he already ditched the truck, so you are a few posts too late.

 

[p nut]

I know you've already gotten rid of it, but I'd really question if the dealership actually did the transmission service 6 months ago. I have heard problems regarding the 01-02 autos (planetary gears), but the only cases I've heard are people who have towed heavy trailers or wheeled it hard. Well, I guess you've already made your choice and with a new car now. Good luck with the new ride.

 

[glenyoshida]

Its your planetary overdrive gear. I would stop driving it immediately and take it to a shop that does local rebuilds. See if they think they can save it before you it is completely destroyed.

I have gone through this twice, the 01-02 4runner 4x4s are prone to this.

Also you can't just bolt up any A340F from a 3rd gen you need one that has multi-mode. Any 01-02 4runner 4wd will work and it is possible that one would work form a 99-00 4wd limited.

I ended up paying $3500 installed for my last one.

Good to know. Thanks for posting up the info. I wheel my rig pretty hard so I we'll see how long my transmission holds. At least I'll have another thing to check if something does fail.