2008 Limited V8 AWD - Tire Balance Expectation

[lemii]

I'm the original owner. 120,600 miles on it. Back in later 2020 I replaced the X-REAS with Bilstein 4600s, along with some other small suspension parts (front stabilizer bar links, stabilizer bar bushings).

This past weekend I noticed small cracks in the tires; looked like dry-rot so I called Discount Tire and arranged to replace the eight year old Michelin LTX M/S tires with Michelin Defender LTX M/S 265/60R18 tires.

On Monday, 1/31/22 Discount Tire installed them after doing a road-force balanced on each one.

That same day I noticed a shimmy in the steering wheel and vibration in the seat. Returned to Discount Tire yesterday for a re-balance and they found two tires out by 3-4 ounces; said their machines must have lost their calibration. No problem, they pulled all four and re-balanced them and rotated them. The tires had about 40 miles on them by this time.

So on my way home last night I still feel the vibration in the driver's seat and I see the passenger seat back vibrating some. No vibration in the steering wheel though. Observed the same this morning on the drive to work. While improved, the ride still doesn't feel right to me.

I had none of this on the prior set of Michelins.

So, do I have unrealistic expectations on the ride quality?

Should I expect this 13.5 year old T4R to ride as smoothly as my wifes' 2019 Ascent?

Should I feel any vibration at all after new tires being road-force balanced?

I guess I'll take it back in for another try...

Thanks.

 

[Seymore Butts]

Balanced tires should not vibrate on your 4R or the other, newer car. You should not feel any vibration at all unless one or more of the tires are defective, or they're incorrectly balanced. Road force balancing may be an unnecessary complication in your case.

 

[ads2539]

I'm the original owner. 120,600 miles on it. Back in later 2020 I replaced the X-REAS with Bilstein 4600s, along with some other small suspension parts (front stabilizer bar links, stabilizer bar bushings).

This past weekend I noticed small cracks in the tires; looked like dry-rot so I called Discount Tire and arranged to replace the eight year old Michelin LTX M/S tires with Michelin Defender LTX M/S 265/60R18 tires.

On Monday, 1/31/22 Discount Tire installed them after doing a road-force balanced on each one.

That same day I noticed a shimmy in the steering wheel and vibration in the seat. Returned to Discount Tire yesterday for a re-balance and they found two tires out by 3-4 ounces; said their machines must have lost their calibration. No problem, they pulled all four and re-balanced them and rotated them. The tires had about 40 miles on them by this time.

So on my way home last night I still feel the vibration in the driver's seat and I see the passenger seat back vibrating some. No vibration in the steering wheel though. Observed the same this morning on the drive to work. While improved, the ride still doesn't feel right to me.

I had none of this on the prior set of Michelins.

So, do I have unrealistic expectations on the ride quality?

Should I expect this 13.5 year old T4R to ride as smoothly as my wifes' 2019 Ascent?

Should I feel any vibration at all after new tires being road-force balanced?

I guess I'll take it back in for another try...

Thanks.

Take them somewhere else to get re-balanced.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

I think you are going to notice a little more vibration with newer tires than you are used to. This will be worse with mud terrain or all terrain tires

You updated a lot of the suspension which hopefully helps, suspension is going to impact that too. You may consider an alignment if not recently done as well

My next step would be swap the tires around and see if it follows. IE if you take the driver tire, put it in the rear is the vibration more behind you now etc

Good luck. Balancing and vibration is a tough issue to get just right. Im putting on new tires and awaiting my battle with the balancing and vibration next week

 

[rdruss]

I have an '03 V8 Ltd. on which I replaced the xreas with 4600's and I run LTX 265/65R17 Defenders with no vibration, they are not new, but second set since I've owned this 4Runner and I don't expect any vibration when I replace them, so no, you should not have to deal with it either.

 

[Tuyrunner]

Just a thought but I had my tires 33x10.5x17 Balance by three different local shops and none of them could get them right. Always had a shimmy in the steering wheel. Found a shop a little bit farther away that had a road force balancing machine. They balanced the tires and no more issues.


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[lemii]

Ran over to a different Discount Tire store closer to work. They found two tires out by 0.5 oz. and the other two by 0.75 oz. So far feels much better...I'll know better when I get on the interstate on the ride home tonight!

 

[Tuyrunner]

Ran over to a different Discount Tire store closer to work. They found two tires out by 0.5 oz. and the other two by 0.75 oz. So far feels much better...I'll know better when I get on the interstate on the ride home tonight!

Awesome hope that took care of the issue! Vibrations and shakes drive me crazy


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[y=mx+b]

I had my 35x10.5 tires mounted and balanced at Walmart and I have no vibration. They don't do road force balance at walmart, so maybe try doing a regular balance?

Also see if they're just adding more weights each time the balance or if they're removing the old weights and starting from scratch.

Trying the different discount tire was a good idea too, hopefully that works well for you

:cheers:

 

[waypoint]

The factory 18" rims on my Limited have been a real pain to get balanced. I found a shop that had a Hunter Road Force Elite balancer and a lug-centric adapter, they nailed it with very little weight and rode smooth as silk.

Check here to find a shop w/ this balancer: Find Hunter Equipment | Hunter Engineering Company(R)

 

[BillsRunner]

Your car should ride smooth as silk. I had several problems with tires - some so far out of spec they couldn't balance - road force picked that up. BUT, 4th gens wheels are not hub-centric they should be balanced using a special flange that balances them on the lug holes!

Here's the long story copied from another thread:
The wheels used on the 4Runner/Tacoma are “lug centric” and are not the more common “hub centric” wheels like on most cars and light trucks. Hub centric wheels are centered on the vehicle hubs using the center hole in the wheel. That is kind of simple. On lug centric wheels the wheels are centered on the vehicle hub using the lug bolt holes and not the center hole. When the wheels are made and machined they are done so using the lug holes to mount the wheels to the machines that make them. The lug holes are the true center of the wheel and not the center hole. So, if the center hole is not in the true center you can understand how mounting the wheel to the balance machine using the center hole is not going to work very well. The wheel needs to be mounted to the balance machine using the lugholes. This is done with a flange plate adapter made by Haweka.

The Haweka adapter firmly locks the wheel onto the balance machine in its true center. It holds wheel very solid and prevents movement. Toyota realized they had a problem with balancing these wheels and issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB SU002-96) requiring the Haweka adapter when balancing these wheels.

 

[2000m2]

Should be smooth. I get my tires rotated and balanced pretty regularly (5 tire rotation to make sure the spare is in good shape).
FWIW - steering wheel shaking = front tires need to be rebalanced. Passenger seat shaking = rear tires need to be rebalanced... as told to me by the discount tire fellas.

 

[Ralph Blake]

Does not sound good for dealing with Discount Tire’s.:yell:

 

[Lugan]

Just competed a 1500 mile road trip with our 07 v8 Sport on 5 year old Big-O Big Foot tires, stock XReas. Smooth as silk at all speeds including a few times above 100. Most cruising at 80.

So yes you should be able to enjoy vibration free driving on an older vehicle.

In addition to all recommendations above you could also consider Dyna beads or ride-on type dynamic balancing. I'm an avid motorcyclist and have have good experiences with these products.

 

[lemii]

This past Monday the second location of Discount Tire rotated and re-balanced the tires. The crew chief did the balance himself, all on the same Hunter balancer. While it improved, I still noticed a slight vibration in the steering wheel between 60 - 70 MPH. This is the third re-balance that was done and the vibration seems to have moved from the rear to the front so that would indicate one of the wheels is still out of balance.

I took it in today and they replaced the front two tires; one of the two had a date code of 0221, the other was 4621. I checked the other two tires on the rear and they were both 5221. So one of the front tires was about a year older than the other three tires installed last week.

The two new tires are both 0122, so brand new. I drove it back on the same stretch of newly paved highway and it seems to be much smoother. I'll double check on the way home tonight on the interstate. Makes me wonder about that one odd-ball tire that was a year older than the rest...

 

[lemii]

No shimmy in the steering wheel, so I feel confident that I had at least one "bad" Michelin tire up front.

I still feela slight vibration in the seat, so I'm gonna rotate the tires myself to see if that moves to the front and comes through the steering wheel. If it does, then it'll be back to Discount Tire to get a resolution.

I find it really hard to believe that I received more than one bad Michelin tire.

What else could cause the vibration to be felt in the front seats?

Thanks.

 

[Buckaroo]

I like Road Force Balancing but have a couple of thoughts.

1. The tech gets a number after they Road Force balance the tire (in lbs). If it is a "high" number, that equates to more vibration. Tires & wheels that are larger and heavier (and cheaper) generally result in higher lbs of force and more vibration. For T4R tires, I would like to see this number under 30 lbs and prefer 20 lbs or less if possible. Note that in the attached video, they get a number of 15 lbs on one tire and proceed to do matching to reduce it - they are looking for 10 lbs or less. Lots of controversy over the max on this number and no one (manufacturers or installers) will give you a "spec" because it can bring into question the acceptability of the tire.

2. The real advantage in Road Force Balancing is to be able to match the tire to the rim (see attached video). This requires the tech to mount the tire, measure the force, unmount the tire, move it to the correct position, remount, balance and measure the road force. If the number is "high", do it again. If the number cannot be reduced, there is a problem with the tire or the rim. Ask ahead of time if the Road Force Balancing includes matching, tell them if you have an expectation regarding a maximum number and request that they document the final (after matching & balancing) Road Force lbs of force for each wheel. Prepare for a robust discussion.

3. Lots of effort to do this correctly. Also, the procedure is more complicated and your standard tire tech likely does not know how to use all the capabilities of the Hunter Road Force balancer.

4. I really don't like to have tires installed that are more than 6 months past manufacture. There only good for 6 (or so) years so if you don't put a lot of miles on your vehicle, installing old tires is costing you money, Installers will say that the time in the warehouse doesn't count but if you go in after the 6 year limit and need your tire patched, many installers will not do it due to liability. Ask ahead of time regarding the date codes on the tires that they will be installing.

Goss' Garage: Road Force Balancing - YouTube